Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[pzfz]

SIG516 should have been trialed.

Like i said, this is not a thorough trial. And anything more than just a few thousand for special forces would be throwing money down the drain. My personal opinion has always been with an AK variant ala Zastava m77. Scar would end up costing more than the economic value of an individual soldier in most 3rd world armies. The rifle that should've trialed (and chosen with no ifs ands or buts) was the Sako RK95. The Finns produce the best AKs and their 762x39 rounds are the best x39 rounds out there in terms of accuracy. The Israelis bought the Finns design/tooling in making the Galil.

Regarding SIG, they also have a multi-caliber rifle in the SIGXI.

 

[Zarvan]

Like i said, this is not a thorough trial. And anything more than just a few thousand for special forces would be throwing money down the drain. My personal opinion has always been with an AK variant ala Zastava m77. Scar would end up costing more than the economic value of an individual soldier in most 3rd world armies. The rifle that should've trialed (and chosen with no ifs ands or buts) was the Sako RK95. The Finns produce the best AKs and their 762x39 rounds are the best x39 rounds out there in terms of accuracy. The Israelis bought the Finns design/tooling in making the Galil.

Regarding SIG, they also have a multi-caliber rifle in the SIGXI.

Trials almost went for around 2 years and since 2010 Army was studying about Guns and the costs and technology it was full through trials not a one day decision. 20 companies wanted to come we invited 5 which included SCAR so we knew about the cost and no it won't cost that much. SCAR has pretty much won the trials and final talks are taking places and soon annoucement will be made

 

[Path-Finder]

So x39 will be scrapped and then x51 will be kept Anything that makes SCAR the winner is coming! In a nutshell.

 

[pzfz]

POF brass mill is for ammmo export.

CQBs only requirement is 13" barrel not the caliber. The SSG is using an M-4 commando for CQB ops in 5.56mm. SCAR on the other hand is the only rifle in the tender which accepts any barrel length. Technically, a SCAR can be switched from a battle rifle to a CQB rifle or the other way around. POF is already producing a CQB variant of G-3 called G-3M with a 13" barrel, chambered in 7.62x51. Its a battle tested platform and working very well for Paramilitary. Similarly the Army is using x39 for CQB. Only thing you need to do is to better educate yourself. This is a debate platform and if you continue to ridicule members, you'll be locked out.



Army has no real choice for x39 so far as both leading contestants have failed. They really wanted the AK-103 but Russians aren't keen on TOT. Both SCAR and ARX x39 platforms aren't ready yet. IMO Army is getting rid of 9mm ammo for CQB hence the MP-5 is going out to Paramilitary and Police. x39 is hanging in the balance. If my assessment is correct, the Army might go for a single caliber. There are indications that the U.S Army might also adopt x51 as a standard caliber.

The x39 isn't going anywhere. Look at the new photos from all theatres that Pakmil operates. Not just counter-terrorism but at the LoC and Siachen. 99% show the soldier carrying a type 56 in 762x39. The only discussion the US Army is having right now is how crappy the 556 round is. If anything they're looking to go for 6.0 or 6.5mm rounds because the 762 NATO is too heavy for being an assault rifle. Only SOCOM is heavily using the 762 nato round.

And that brings me back to your assertion re: CQB in Pakmil: Why would the army look to drop a round that is WAY easier to handle than any barrel length of 762 nato. In fact, a shorter barrel makes the 762 battle rifle even harder to handle.

All this squabbling is indicative of a lack of thought at the upper echelons of Pakmil regarding its future. Fact of the matter is that serious thought should've been put into deciding which caliber round it wants before deciding on the rifle. Even the 5.8 DPZ would've been excellent. I'll continue to shill for a 6 (or 6.5mm) round since they provide better ballistics, armor penetration and velocity compared to the 762 nato with the benefit of being light-weight like the 556.

 

[Path-Finder]

The x39 isn't going anywhere. Look at the new photos from all theatres that Pakmil operates. Not just counter-terrorism but at the LoC and Siachen. 99% show the soldier carrying a type 56 in 762x39. The only discussion the US Army is having right now is how crappy the 556 round is. If anything they're looking to go for 6.0 or 6.5mm rounds because the 762 NATO is too heavy for being an assault rifle. Only SOCOM is heavily using the 762 nato round.

And that brings me back to your assertion re: CQB in Pakmil: Why would the army look to drop a round that is WAY easier to handle than any barrel length of 762 nato. In fact, a shorter barrel makes the 762 battle rifle even harder to handle.

All this squabbling is indicative of a lack of thought at the upper echelons of Pakmil regarding its future. Fact of the matter is that serious thought should've been put into deciding which caliber round it wants before deciding on the rifle. Even the 5.8 DPZ would've been excellent. I'll continue to shill for a 6 (or 6.5mm) round since they provide the better ballistics, armor penetration and velocity compared to the 762 nato with the benefit of being light-weight like the 556.

The US studied x39 and developed 300Blackout which is 556 casing with 30 calibre bullet. It is called the offspring of x39 and 556. the characteristics match x39, It is being used by USSOCOM and it could be the round replacing 556.

 

[pzfz]

The US studied x39 and developed 300Blackout which is 556 casing with 30 calibre bullet. It is called the offspring of x39 and 556. the characteristics match x39, It is being used by USSOCOM and it could be the round replacing 556.

nope, too expensive and not enough range for wider use in the US military. Only for certain specop situations. USSOCOM uses a lot of calibers like the 6.8 SPC. None of if should be taken as indicative of what they're replacing the 556 with, if they actually are. US military will never go for a round like the 762 nato for service-wide issue since it puts a premium on its soldiers being able to carry more rounds than the 762 nato allows.

 

[Path-Finder]

nope, too expensive and not enough range for wider use in the US military. Only for certain specop situations. USSOCOM uses a lot of calibers like the 6.8 SPC. None of if should be taken as indicative of what they're replacing the 556 with, if they actually are. US military will never go for a round like the 762 nato for service-wide issue since it puts a premium on its soldiers being able to carry more rounds than the 762 nato allows.

The round the US Military is studying is x39 and 300Blackout is one result of such conclusive study along with 6.8SPC 6.5 Grendel to speak of few. But I am quite optimistic that replacement of 556 will be becoming priority and us sticking with x39 is the best option. US or NATO cannot adopt the enemies cartridge although GIGN has as it fits the bill perfectly.

 

[pzfz]

Modernize the G3? Brazil's IMBEL IA2 modernized the FAL. I don't see why you can't do the same with the G3.

The AG-3F2 was our take on a modernized G3 rifle.

I dunno, but I'm hoping something happens soon with Pakistan's rifle tender so we can stop speculating and put this to rest once and for all.

The FAL is a much more flexible design. The Brazilians also use more of the 556 imbel ia2 variant than the 762 nato one. What the Norgis did (essentially the G3KA4) Pak has also done with the G3M and the G3S. Too heavy and still can't put a front top picatinny rail unless you want to make the G3 even heavier than it already is.

 

[Zarvan]

Modernize the G3? Brazil's IMBEL IA2 modernized the FAL. I don't see why you can't do the same with the G3.

The AG-3F2 was our take on a modernized G3 rifle.

I dunno, but I'm hoping something happens soon with Pakistan's rifle tender so we can stop speculating and put this to rest once and for all.

All upgradations have led to G3 getting more heavy and bigger in size. What we need to do is get SCAR series and produce them in Pakistan and get in collaboration with companies like Caracal of UAE and others and design one of our own Rifle

 

[Kompromat]

Local G-3 upgrades.

 

[Zarvan]

Local G-3 upgrades.

View attachment 391227 View attachment 391228 View attachment 391229

These upgrades are the reason why we need to replace G3. Every upgrade results in increase in weight and even size

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Only choice was HK-417 and they are not selling to Pakistan due to the German Govt policies.

Are the scar folks willing to make modifications to fix any issues? Or will tot allow us to make changes ourselves to meet our reqs and fix issues? And lastly how is the overall selection process transparency... any chance of corruption or kicbacks etc ?

 

[Path-Finder]

Are the scar folks willing to make modifications to fix any issues? Or will tot allow us to make changes ourselves to meet our reqs and fix issues? And lastly how is the overall selection process transparency... any chance of corruption or kicbacks etc ?

There is no corruption and issues with the SCAR rifle it passed all the trials!

 

[Kompromat]

Sig-716 7.62x51 pieces are with the Army for trials.

SIG516 should have been trialed.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Just passing by... Still no "OFFCIIAL" news on which Pak Army choosed?