Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[Paksanity]

then good for you. for that you need to increase your defense budget. even US chose to continue to use M4 for their infantry soldiers because of the high cost of the H&K. if pakistan can afford that weapon with just 8 billion $ defense budget then it will be a miracle

One can not disagree with you entirely. Truth is no country has unlimited defence budget and new procurements have to be carefully managed to make the best of allocated funds. Replacing main assault rifle of an army of the size of Pakistan involves massive amount of money hence calls for cost mitigation measures. My guess is Pakistan will put in place range of measures to get best weapon with least possible expenditure. Few of them could be

1. Span replacement program over many years, something like 15 years or even more. Allocating a portion of defence budget each year. G-3 isn't that bad and can soldier on with some units for another decade or two till finally relegated to reserve units.

2. Local assembly is almost certain given the number of units needed which could end up well over a million copies. Number of units along with prolonged production will bring the cost down. As production run continues, more and more components will be locally manufactured and hence will keep bringing cost down.

3. Arms companies deal differently with large government contracts compared to individual sales at local gun store. These are huge contracts and can turn around fortune of any company. Competition thus ensues bringing costs down with some deal sweeteners thrown in. If government negotiators are sincere and competent, they can pull off a great deal. Most often than not corruption sends the price through the roof. I sure hope our negotiators do well here.

4. There can always be a possibility of support through soft loans given the size of deal so can't rule that out either. HK made some good business with G-3 from us and Pak made units were of good quality so they don't have to worry about their reputation.

In nutshell, we hope to get a good deal and we are not in hurry. G-3 has got us covered for the time being and while it is an old design it works well. What is the final outcome of all this, well.....your guess is as good as mine.

 

[Zarvan]

Its an MP-7

You are saying MP-7 others are saying Block fitted in a system

 

[Wolfhound]

then good for you. for that you need to increase your defense budget. even US chose to continue to use M4 for their infantry soldiers because of the high cost of the H&K. if pakistan can afford that weapon with just 8 billion $ defense budget then it will be a miracle

OR we do the smart thing and buy the next best thing, The MPT-76. It should either be MPT-76 or if we have alot of money Fn Scar and Hk417. I hope we go with Fn Scar as its more lighter than both of the aforementioned rifles and has a more controllable rate of fire 600r

 

[Icarus]

You are saying MP-7 others are saying Block fitted in a system

MP-7, the glock accessory has a completely different stock shape.

 

[Zarvan]

MP-7, the glock accessory has a completely different stock shape.

Thanks Sir @kaonalpha @Horus @Wolfhound

 

[Wolfhound]

You mean procuring a foreign rifle is economical than developing your own??

Yes specially when you dont have the money for R&D and are short in time.

 

[hkdas]

One can not disagree with you entirely. Truth is no country has unlimited defence budget and new procurements have to be carefully managed to make the best of allocated funds. Replacing main assault rifle of an army of the size of Pakistan involves massive amount of money hence calls for cost mitigation measures. My guess is Pakistan will put in place range of measures to get best weapon with least possible expenditure. Few of them could be

1. Span replacement program over many years, something like 15 years or even more. Allocating a portion of defence budget each year. G-3 isn't that bad and can soldier on with some units for another decade or two till finally relegated to reserve units.

2. Local assembly is almost certain given the number of units needed which could end up well over a million copies. Number of units along with prolonged production will bring the cost down. As production run continues, more and more components will be locally manufactured and hence will keep bringing cost down.

3. Arms companies deal differently with large government contracts compared to individual sales at local gun store. These are huge contracts and can turn around fortune of any company. Competition thus ensues bringing costs down with some deal sweeteners thrown in. If government negotiators are sincere and competent, they can pull off a great deal. Most often than not corruption sends the price through the roof. I sure hope our negotiators do well here.

4. There can always be a possibility of support through soft loans given the size of deal so can't rule that out either. HK made some good business with G-3 from us and Pak made units were of good quality so they don't have to worry about their reputation.

In nutshell, we hope to get a good deal and we are not in hurry. G-3 has got us covered for the time being and while it is an old design it works well. What is the final outcome of all this, well.....your guess is as good as mine.

but you need to pay extra money for ToT, and for licence for producing their product in pakistan. you cannot produce a ferrari car in the same price of TATA nato. just like that you cannot produce H&K 416 at the same price of G3. the rate of production of a guns are up to 2 lakh/year. so you think pakistan can pay the price of 1 lakh Hk product in a year??

OR we do the smart thing and buy the next best thing, The MPT-76. It should either be MPT-76 or if we have alot of money Fn Scar and Hk417. I hope we go with Fn Scar as its more lighter than both of the aforementioned rifles and has a more controllable rate of fire 600r

what about Chinese ZH-05 ??

The Chinese Army Gets A Smart Grenade Launcher For Christmas | Popular Science
Russian Website shows New Chinese ZH-05 Assault Rifle / Grenade Launcher - Guns.com

 

[Wolfhound]

but you need to pay extra money for ToT, and for licence for producing their product in pakistan. you cannot produce a ferrari car in the same price of TATA nato. just like that you cannot produce H&K 416 at the same price of G3. the rate of production of a guns are up to 2 lakh/year. so you think pakistan can pay the price of 1 lakh Hk product in a year??

Bhai jan, we may be buying the cheaper turkish alternative, the MPT-76 instead. It is a much cheaper rifle with same or better performance.

what about Chinese ZH-05 ??

The Chinese Army Gets A Smart Grenade Launcher For Christmas | Popular Science
Russian Website shows New Chinese ZH-05 Assault Rifle / Grenade Launcher - Guns.com

Firstly its chambered in 5.8 we are going for both 7.62 and 5.56, secondly its a new rifle and not mature enough and lastly its ugly as fu*ck(no offence).

 

[hkdas]

we are going for both 7.62 and 5.56

you mean multi caliber rifle??

 

[Paksanity]

but you need to pay extra money for ToT, and for licence for producing their product in pakistan. you cannot produce a ferrari car in the same price of TATA nato. just like that you cannot produce H&K 416 at the same price of G3. the rate of production of a guns are up to 2 lakh/year. so you think pakistan can pay the price of 1 lakh Hk product in a year??

Rights to license production and ToT is most probably one time payment. And yes, from the look of it Pakistan has got the money. Agreed Hk-417 or 416 will be way expensive compared to G-3 but there are other options off course. Let's see how it plays out. PA more often than not pulls off good defence deals.

 

[hkdas]

.PA more often than not pulls off good defence deals.

any official conformation from the army about the plan to replace G-3?

 

[nik22]

Firstly its chambered in 5.8 we are going for both 7.62 and 5.56, secondly its a new rifle and not mature enough and lastly its ugly as fu*ck(no offence).

fu*ck is ugly? come on man

 

[Pak_Track]

Beretta ARX-160 assault rifle (Italy)

Beretta ARX-160 assault rifle, early prototype (ca.2008)




Beretta ARX-160 assault rifle, production version (2013) in 5.56x45 NATO




Beretta ARX-160 assault rifle, production version (2013) in 7.62x39 M43 Russian




Beretta ARX-160 assault rifle, production version with GLX-160 grenade launcher





Beretta ARX-100 self-loading rifle for civilian use, in 7.62x39 Russian


Beretta ARX-160 assault rifle partially disassembled





Caliber: 5.56x45mm NATO, 7.62x39 M43
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: 820-900 mm with 406 mm barrel and butt in ready position; 680 mm with butt folded
Barrel length: 305 mm / 12" or 406 mm / 16", quick changeable
Weight: ~ 3.1 kg with 406 mm barrel, w/o mag
Rate of fire: 700 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds



The Beretta ARX-160 assault rifle is manufactured by famous Beretta company in Italy. Starting 2012, ARX-160 rifle is in use by Italian army. It is also offered for export, with initial customers being Special Forces of Algeria, Egypt and Kazakhstan (latter bought 7.62x39 version). A semi-automatic only version of the ARX-160 is offered for civilian sales as Beretta ARX-100 rifle, also in 5.56 / .223 Rem and 7.62x39.



The Beretta ARX-160 assault rifle is gas operated weapon that utilizes conventional piston-operated action, with short stroke gas piston located above the barrel. Barrel locking is achieved by more or less conventional rotary bolt. Unlike most other assault rifles, the Beretta ARX-160 assault rifle features quick-detachable barrels, which can be changed by operator in the field by depressing the barrel release button (located on right side of receiver, in front of magazine housing), pulling the barrel forward and out of the gun, and then inserting another (or same) barrel back. The receiver consists of two parts, upper (which holds barrel and bolt group) and lower (which hosts magazine housing, trigger unit and pistol grip). Both halves are made from impact-resistant polymer and connected using special quick-release locks, so there are no pins to push out (and lose). Another interesting and unusual feature of the Beretta ARX-160 assault rifle is that it has selectable left / right side ejection system with dual ejection ports (on either side of the gun) and user-switchable left / right position of cocking handle. To change the direction of empty case ejection, user has to push the cross-bolt button, located above and slightly to the rear of pistol grip, by the tip of the bullet (or other pointed item). This affects dual extractor-ejector claws, installed on the bolt, forcing them to eject spent cartridge to the desired side without any further disassembly of the gun or parts change. Charging handle, which is attached to the bolt carrier, also can be installed on either side of the gun. The Beretta ARX-160 assault rifle fires from closed bolt, in single shots and full automatic mode, and has ambidextrous safety / fire mode selector switch conveniently located above pistol grip. Upper receiver is fitted with full-length Picatinny type rail, made of aluminum, which can accommodate a wide variety of sighting equipment, including iron, telescopic, red-dot or electronic sights. Standard open sights are mounted on folding bases using rail interface. Additional lengths of Picatinny rail are installed on the forend on 3-, 6- and 9- o'clock positions. Lower (6-o'clock) position rail is strong enough to host GLX 160 40mm single-shot grenade launcher. Standard buttstock is also made of plastic, and folds to the right side. The buttstock is of telescoped, user-adjustable design.

That Beretta is a solid choice. Very simple field-stripping and well suited for left and right handed soldiers. It has two extractors to allow for left and right ejection and also, if one extractor breaks in the field, the operator can simply switch to the other one.
Seems like most of our members are judging the guns by how they look like.

 

[Kompromat]

MP-7, the glock accessory has a completely different stock shape.

Any replacement plans for g3 or its just hogwash?

 

[Pak_Track]

Any replacement plans for g3 or its just hogwash?

I presume such hogwash has happened before?