Pakistan's 'secret' war in Baluchistan

[joekrish]

Don't be stupid, pretty obvious our own forces will be killing the terrorists, I guess Indians call Israeli's for help.

Bro we dothink alike.

 

[OrionHunter]

Meanwhile, Bhutto said talks or negotiations in the past remained inconclusive because verbal assurances could not calm down the situation which had reached the point of no return.

Ooops! So, Bhutto has spoken from her grave? WTF?

 

[ziaulislam]

lets all wait for seconds and think of the issue in Baluchistan in detail.

first party is the baloch ordinary people
second party is baloch nawabs, which ruled Baluchistan till 1971 when states were abloshed by bhutto.
third party is the rapidly growing pushtoon population.


baloch people are divided into tribes, they are about 50 tribes and sub tribes. most of them till now are pro govt with exception 2 large and four minor tribes. even in them most are pro government. you can see the baloch peopel in isolation so much as they follow the nawabs especially in periphery
second party is balcoh nawabs, there demand is very simple they want

a. leave baluchistan as un developed as it was..
b.stop gawadar development as this would effect the balance of population to pushtoons (already pushtoon compromise 40% of population and gawadar as whole will tilt this balance even further due to migration from KPk)
c. to convert all areas to lawless B areas so nawabs can do whatever they want.

current govt has nearly accepted all these demands.

third party which is pushtoons are pro govt and victim in some cases.

so conculsion
comparing east pakistan situation with balochistan is idiotic because

1. 40% population is pushtoons in oposed to east pakistan where it was 98%bengali
2. population is very small (70 lac ) which is less than 1/3 of karachi as opposed to bengal population was more than all wet pakistan
3. the fight is primary contiued by feudals to preserve feudalism therefore any good govt will have tussel with them..so dont expect much change in PTI gov


what govt needs to do...

a. involve in talks with fuedals and try to convince them to allow change.
b. give royalty to provincial govt
c. increase capability of FC
d. rapidly develop gawadar to offset the balance of population and thus allowing multi ethnicity to prevail rater than nationalism
e. increase spending on education and health sector
e. give full security to foreign investment especially in oil and gas sector

 

[joekrish]

lets all wait for seconds and think of the issue in Baluchistan in detail.

first party is the baloch ordinary people
second party is baloch nawabs, which ruled Baluchistan till 1971 when states were abloshed by bhutto.
third party is the rapidly growing pushtoon population.


baloch people are divided into tribes, they are about 50 tribes and sub tribes. most of them till now are pro govt with exception 2 large and four minor tribes. even in them most are pro government. you can see the baloch peopel in isolation so much as they follow the nawabs especially in periphery
second party is balcoh nawabs, there demand is very simple they want

a. leave baluchistan as un developed as it was..
b.stop gawadar development as this would effect the balance of population to pushtoons (already pushtoon compromise 40% of population and gawadar as whole will tilt this balance even further due to migration from KPk)
c. to convert all areas to lawless B areas so nawabs can do whatever they want.

current govt has nearly accepted all these demands.

third party which is pushtoons are pro govt and victim in some cases.

so conculsion
comparing east pakistan situation with balochistan is idiotic because

1. 40% population is pushtoons in oposed to east pakistan where it was 98%bengali
2. population is very small (70 lac ) which is less than 1/3 of karachi as opposed to bengal population was more than all wet pakistan
3. the fight is primary contiued by feudals to preserve feudalism therefore any good govt will have tussel with them..so dont expect much change in PTI gov


what govt needs to do...

a. involve in talks with fuedals and try to convince them to allow change.
b. give royalty to provincial govt
c. increase capability of FC
d. rapidly develop gawadar to offset the balance of population and thus allowing multi ethnicity to prevail rater than nationalism
e. increase spending on education and health sector
e. give full security to foreign investment especially in oil and gas sector

I don't know what to say or how to react a lot of the people on this thread do think a lot like us Indians that is the exact same problems we are facing with the Kashmir and moist so......all I can say is I do understand your problems.

 

[true_indian]

Thanks to Indian backing of Bugti terrorists. Pakistan defence forces have all the right to shoot to kill any person who takes up arms against the state, they are terrorists just like maoists in India and LTTE in Sri Lanka. Theuy should all be killed.

Indian leaders/RAw are still trying the same technique they did in 1971 in east Pakistan, and in Sind in 80's, times are quite different and Baluchistan is not 2000 miles away with no transportaion.

And for the record there is no popular uprising in Baluchistan, its only a few thousand Bugti terrorists lap dancing to their hindu masters.

Ah wrong analogy. We never used military against Maoists, did we?

 

[nalandapride]

I read that Bhutto even used Airforce to bomb its own people in Balochistan during 1972-73 revolts. And whole world saw the riots and protests after killing of Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti. It shows lots of people support these rebels.

 

[53fd]

Asma Jahangir really doesn't know what she is talking about in terms of Balochistan. The Baloch members on this very forum have exposed her arguments plenty of times.

 

[Areesh]

Asma Jahangir really doesn't know what she is talking about in terms of Balochistan. The Baloch members on this very forum have exposed her arguments plenty of times.

Leave Balochistan does she know about anything when she talks about any issue?

 

[53fd]

No one is denying there are outstanding issues in Balochistan that need to be resolved. But the lies & propaganda perpetrated by the liberal fascists is really something else. At least we are an open enough society to discuss these issues out in the open, unlike others that charge their people for sedition for saying 'Kashmir isn't an integral part of India'.

 

[pakistanitarzan]

My message to Baloch people on this forum. Please do not fall under the same propaganda as the one in 1971. Please do not be used by any agency who want's to split Pakistan. Inshallah Pakistan is to grow.

On belalf of every Pakistani, I want to tell all the Baloch that Pakistani Qaum loves Balochistan. We need you. We love you and we will take care of you. We will provide support to Balochistan under a patriotic government. Balochi people are our blood brothers. You guys are pride of Pakistan. You'r culture is amazing, you're language is amazing. I want to learn Balochi. Inshallah great khair is comming to Pakistan. Inshallah Balochistan will always be part of Pakistan.

Now isnt that enough proof to show that we will die to keep Balochistan intact with Pakistan at any cost? Balochistan is here to stay. Balochi people should feel the same way about Sindhi, Pathan, Mahajir, Punjabi, etc. Afterall, we are all Pakistani. Please spread this message.

 

[Don Jaguar]

lets all wait for seconds and think of the issue in Baluchistan in detail.

first party is the baloch ordinary people
second party is baloch nawabs, which ruled Baluchistan till 1971 when states were abloshed by bhutto.
third party is the rapidly growing pushtoon population.


baloch people are divided into tribes, they are about 50 tribes and sub tribes. most of them till now are pro govt with exception 2 large and four minor tribes. even in them most are pro government. you can see the baloch peopel in isolation so much as they follow the nawabs especially in periphery
second party is balcoh nawabs, there demand is very simple they want

a. leave baluchistan as un developed as it was..
b.stop gawadar development as this would effect the balance of population to pushtoons (already pushtoon compromise 40% of population and gawadar as whole will tilt this balance even further due to migration from KPk)
c. to convert all areas to lawless B areas so nawabs can do whatever they want.

current govt has nearly accepted all these demands.

third party which is pushtoons are pro govt and victim in some cases.

so conculsion
comparing east pakistan situation with balochistan is idiotic because

1. 40% population is pushtoons in oposed to east pakistan where it was 98%bengali
2. population is very small (70 lac ) which is less than 1/3 of karachi as opposed to bengal population was more than all wet pakistan
3. the fight is primary contiued by feudals to preserve feudalism therefore any good govt will have tussel with them..so dont expect much change in PTI gov


what govt needs to do...

a. involve in talks with fuedals and try to convince them to allow change.
b. give royalty to provincial govt
c. increase capability of FC
d. rapidly develop gawadar to offset the balance of population and thus allowing multi ethnicity to prevail rater than nationalism
e. increase spending on education and health sector
e. give full security to foreign investment especially in oil and gas sector

Well explained brother.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I read that Bhutto even used Airforce to bomb its own people in Balochistan during 1972-73 revolts.

Selig Harrison is the lone source for that claim, and Selig Harrison's claims have been exposed as incorrect a few times now:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/72275-selig-s-harrison-s-lying-bastard.html

And see the following link specifically with respect to the allegation in your post:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/10354-baluchistan-insurgency.html

Thread cleaned up

---------- Post added at 08:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:19 AM ----------

Re-posting this article from the main Baluchistan thread:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ans-secret-war-baluchistan-2.html#post2438351

The reality of Balochistan


Zafar Hilaly ... The writer is a former ambassador.

Thursday, December 29, 2011

The public is fairly clueless about what’s happening in Balochistan. We never hear from our reclusive governor, while the chief minister, though more visible with his utterances, is almost always incomprehensible to the untrained ear.

The media too seems to have treated Balochistan as a distant province. There has been little investigative reporting on the affairs of that province, and not just on what the separatists and militants are up to or how the military is going about its business but also on issues of political and administrative governance in general.

Hence, the situation there is pretty murky and it’s difficult to make hard judgments.

The ethnic Baloch are not in a majority, to begin with, while separatism has already exposed the province to pernicious influences from the outside. Separatism by the ethnic Baloch runs up against another problem because of that province’s ethnic composition.

Pakhtuns and others will never accept ethnic Baloch dominance.

Indeed, the Pukhtuns have little reason to do so, being better armed and more connected within Pakistan and with the Pukhtun part of Afghanistan. So separatism will lead to sub-separatism within that province. Their best bet, therefore, is to take advantage of the prevailing political sympathies for them by striking a sensible and responsible deal with the federation.

Of course, the agencies operating there cannot be given a clean bill of health. They can be cruel and blinkered in their approach to what is a complex and sensitive issue. And the “Punjabi” army and ‘“Punjab” may still be an issue, but it is not a fundamental issue.

All political parties, including the newcomer on the block, the PTI, admit that Balochistan has had a raw deal under insensitive dictators who were predisposed towards finding military solutions to political problems. And if Baloch fear of being drowned “in a sea of Punjabi majority” is a genuine fear, that too must be addressed.

But the ethnic Baloch, led by extremists, must also wake up to the fact that separatism is a dead-end road for them, just as it is for the country as a whole. They must therefore show willingness to negotiate seriously all their genuine grievances.

Apart from demographic realities within Balochistan, there is another reality which the ethnic Baloch need to consider. They are too few and too weak to prevail over the wishes of the other provinces. And while the rest of the country is very amenable to giving them the right to run their own affairs, it is also united in preventing secession.

For Pakistan to relinquish its claim to Balochistan would in effect mean that it would be giving up 40 percent of its territory, and with it the territorial integrity of the country as a whole. That’s simply out of the question, which is why many will stop at nothing to ensure this does not happen.

Simply put: there cannot be an independent Balochistan unconnected with Pakistan. It would also have a destabilising effect regionally.

The Baloch stand to benefit so much from provincial stability which will attract enormous investments to tap Balochistan’s mineral and other resources, partly because of its strategic location-both because of its frontage on the Indian Ocean and its potential role as a commercial entrepot to the Central Asian hinterland.

China alone would become a huge investor with a significant long-term economic and geopolitical interest in that province; and where China is investing, so will the US to offset China’s influence. Actually, were relations between Pakistan and India to mend somewhat, India too could be a significant investor and a beneficiary from Balochistan’s role as a regional hub.

Besides, if the Baloch play their cards skilfully they could obtain special treatment for a number of years to give them a kick-start. Quotas are still in force in the federation and they could be applied in a provincial context as well. The centre should be amenable to such a demand if it will help to restore peace and stability in that province. By contrast, separatist militancy will keep Balochistan impoverished and it will lead nowhere.

One reason why this has not happened as yet is because the sardars want to jealously safeguard their traditional leadership role within their tribes by playing the separatist card and by exploiting long-held grievances of discrimination and neglect.

If Balochistan picked up economically, they would have a hard time preserving the sardari system and their privileged status. In fact, the reason that the outdated Sardari system has lasted as long as it has is due to our politico-bureaucratic negligence and mismanagement in the past.

The sardari system also made matters worse by impeding the transition from the tribal mode to a more modern vision. Such a transition would have weakened the Sardars who would have lost their grip by now as a result of structural socio-economic change.

Nawaz Sharif hasn’t done the responsible thing by pandering to the sardars and showing them to be the innocent victims of a ruthless military, as he did the other day in Karachi at a joint press talk with Ataullah Mengal. That will not help to resolve the issue of that province, nor does it improve civil-military relations which are so important for tackling not just Balochistan but other national problems.

Besides it’s not as if the military is composed of homicidal maniacs. They and the settler community have been the targets of attacks that have caused much death and settler families have been forced to flee their second- and third-generation homes in Balochistan.

The point of this article is not to apportion blame or pass judgment as to which of the protagonists in the ongoing strife in Balochistan is more to blame. However, it’s unwise for the government to get drawn into the game of aggressive posturing. Instead, it should press ahead with ambitious plans for the development of that province, as outlined in the “Haqooq-e-Balochistan” document.

To slacken the tempo on account of the insurgency would mean falling behind and those who fall behind get beaten when it comes to winning the loyalty of the populace. That, sadly, has been the story of relations between the centre and the province. Regardless of the outcome of its peace overtures and, however disappointing the response, the centre must not get distracted from pursuing its core interests in Balochistan, the foremost of which is to bring development to this much-neglected province.

Even if it means some belt- tightening by the other provinces.

The reality of Balochistan - Zafar Hilaly ... The writer is a former ambassador.

 

[ziaulislam]

I don't know what to say or how to react a lot of the people on this thread do think a lot like us Indians that is the exact same problems we are facing with the Kashmir and moist so......all I can say is I do understand your problems.

there are no nwawabs in kashmir..and no ethnic variation, other than hugely dominant Muslims
comparing kashmir and balochistan is either height of ignorance or extreme bias.

today i am pretty sure that if referendum is held in balochistan we would see a clear favour for pakistan vote merely due to fact that huge pushtoon population and pro govt tribes easily out number the few who are against.
but if u do a referendum in kashmir, they will most likely opt for independence( i am not sure they would like to be a part of pakistan unless kashmir is united and they are given overwhelming independence)
all this is hypothetical, we know it cant happen, so no trolling

 

[ziaulislam]

Ah wrong analogy. We never used military against Maoists, did we?

by that definition we haven't used military too in Baluchistan 99% operation were done by FC which isnt the military.
frontier core has in effect given to province itself. lastly under 1973 constitution, military use can only be done under the request of provincial govt

 

[ziaulislam]

I read that Bhutto even used Airforce to bomb its own people in Balochistan during 1972-73 revolts. And whole world saw the riots and protests after killing of Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti. It shows lots of people support these rebels.

well 72-73 was obvious, he had abloshed the kingdoms in balochistan and there was bond to be some resistance but ur statement isbased upon indian reports merly

nawab shab had killed 700 people in his prisons, had PUBLICALLY forced thousands of people to leave their homes, was minister and had been governer for many times
he had prompted his sub tribal people to good positions, what did u expect? these people would sit and do nothing..
what happens when a big badmash/drug man/nawab is killed, his followers or people in his pockets or to people he showed favor would show atleast some anger..only if you know the tribal system you would understand