Pakistan's 'secret' war in Baluchistan

[qsaark]

Gawader was never part of Balochistan in history except of some short rule of Balochs there

Than it was part of which country in the history? Pakistan? Did you bother to read the references given in the link? Are you more informed about the history of the region than the highly respected and accomplished academicians such as Dr. Beatrice Nicolini?

Medieval Sourcebook: Sidi Ali Reis (16th Century CE): Mirat ul Memalik ("The Mirror of Countries")

"Towards the end of the eighteenth century Nasir Khan I, of the Ahmadzai family of the Brahui ethnic group of Kalat "granted" the port of Gwadar to Sultan bin Ahmad (ruled 1792-1804) of the Al Bu Sa'id tribe of Oman, who escaped from Maskat (Muscat ) around 1784. Sultan bin Ahmad of the Al Bu Sa'id maintained this possession also after his accession to the throne of Maskat".

Source: http://www.oman.org/bonn_007.html

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Than it was part of which country in the history? Pakistan? Did you bother to read the references given in the link? Are you more informed about the history of the region than the highly respected and accomplished academicians such as Dr. Beatrice Nicolini?

Medieval Sourcebook: Sidi Ali Reis (16th Century CE): Mirat ul Memalik ("The Mirror of Countries")

"Towards the end of the eighteenth century Nasir Khan I, of the Ahmadzai family of the Brahui ethnic group of Kalat "granted" the port of Gwadar to Sultan bin Ahmad (ruled 1792-1804) of the Al Bu Sa'id tribe of Oman, who escaped from Maskat (Muscat ) around 1784. Sultan bin Ahmad of the Al Bu Sa'id maintained this possession also after his accession to the throne of Maskat".

Source: http://www.oman.org/bonn_007.html

Are Baloch grateful that Pakistan got the land back

 

[jupiter2007]

Studying a little history before putting your words/opinion into writing wont hurt.

...The region remained on the sidelines of history for a millennium, until the Arab-Muslim army of Muhammad bin Qasim captured the town of Gwadar in 711 CE and over the intervening (and nearly equivalent) amount of time the area was contested by various powers, including the Mughals (from the east) and the Safavids (from the west). The Portuguese captured, sacked and burnt Gwadar in 1581,[6] and this was then followed by almost two centuries of local rule by the various Balochi tribes. The city was visited by Ottoman Admiral Sidi Ali Reis in 1550s and mentioned in his book Mirat ul Memalik (The Mirror of Countries), 1557 CE [7]. According to Sidi Ali Reis, the inhabitants of Gwadar were Baloch and their chief was Malik Jelaleddin, son of Malik Dinar. In 1783, the Khan of Kalat granted suzerainty over Gwadar to Taimur Sultan, the defeated ruler of Muscat.[8] When the sultan subsequently retook Muscat, he was to continue his rule in Gwadar by appointing a wali (or "governor"). This wali was then ordered to subjugate the nearby coastal town of Chah Bahar (in modern-day Iran). The Gwadari fort was built during Omani rule, whilst telegraph lines were later extended into the town courtesy of the British.

Until 1958 Gwadar was part of Oman but was transferred to Pakistan on 8 September 1958. The Gwadar enclave sold to Pakistan (effective 8 December 1958). It was integrated within the Balochistan (Pakistan) on 1 July 1977 and became a full sub-division of the Gwadar District.The money for the purchase was generated by way of taxation and donations. It was then made part of the Balochistan province.

Source: Gwadar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If that is the case then Pakistani Punjab is part of Punjab is now in India or Khalistan and Sindh is part of Bombay princely state.

 

[qsaark]

If that is the case then Pakistani Punjab is part of Punjab is now in India or Khalistan and Sindh is part of Bombay princely state.

I'll suggest you to read the history of Balochistan and get yourself informed that the case of Balochistan annexation with Pakistan is totally different than Sindh, Punjab, NWFP and East Bengal and is only comparable with Nepal. There is ample information in this thread on this subject.

 

[jupiter2007]

Studying a little history before putting your words/opinion into writing wont hurt.

...The region remained on the sidelines of history for a millennium, until the Arab-Muslim army of Muhammad bin Qasim captured the town of Gwadar in 711 CE and over the intervening (and nearly equivalent) amount of time the area was contested by various powers, including the Mughals (from the east) and the Safavids (from the west). The Portuguese captured, sacked and burnt Gwadar in 1581,[6] and this was then followed by almost two centuries of local rule by the various Balochi tribes. The city was visited by Ottoman Admiral Sidi Ali Reis in 1550s and mentioned in his book Mirat ul Memalik (The Mirror of Countries), 1557 CE [7]. According to Sidi Ali Reis, the inhabitants of Gwadar were Baloch and their chief was Malik Jelaleddin, son of Malik Dinar. In 1783, the Khan of Kalat granted suzerainty over Gwadar to Taimur Sultan, the defeated ruler of Muscat.[8] When the sultan subsequently retook Muscat, he was to continue his rule in Gwadar by appointing a wali (or "governor"). This wali was then ordered to subjugate the nearby coastal town of Chah Bahar (in modern-day Iran). The Gwadari fort was built during Omani rule, whilst telegraph lines were later extended into the town courtesy of the British.

Until 1958 Gwadar was part of Oman but was transferred to Pakistan on 8 September 1958. The Gwadar enclave sold to Pakistan (effective 8 December 1958). It was integrated within the Balochistan (Pakistan) on 1 July 1977 and became a full sub-division of the Gwadar District.The money for the purchase was generated by way of taxation and donations. It was then made part of the Balochistan province.

Source: Gwadar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If that is the case then Pakistani Punjab is part of Punjab is now in India or Khalistan and Sindh is part of Bombay princely state.

I don't care about what part belong to who. I think it will bring the balance and economical improve the region if Pakistan government divide Baluchistan area into 5 smaller provinces. Pakistan should start with Makran and LesBela and then further divide the reset of the region including NWFP.

Pakistan can't survive as 4 provinces and F** FATA region. Pakistani leadership has to be some drastic changes to united the country and take it out from misery and pain. Pakistan needs to improve it's economy, by improving the balance between Import & Export. Pakistan needs to move away from just agriculture base economy to more base on IT, Techonolgy, Engineering goods, Seafood export, Tea export, Fertilizer, Pharmaceutical Export, Chemical, Petroleum, etc.

it is said that Pakistani exports are highly concentrated in a few items namely cotton, leather, rice, synthetic textiles, sports goods and surgical instruments. These five categories of export accounted for 77.2 per cent of total exports during 2006-07 with cotton manufacturers alone contributing 61.5 per cent, followed by leather (4.5 per cent), rice (6.6 per cent), synthetic textile (3.0 per cent) and sports goods (1.6 per cent). The degree of concentration has changed little from last financial year. Pakistan’s exports are highly concentrated in few countries including the United States, United Kingdom, Germany, Japan, Hong Kong, Dubai and Saudi Arabia. These countries account for onehalf of Pakistan’s exports with U.S alone accounting for 28 per cent. Therefore, Pakistan needs to diversify its exports not only in terms of commodities but also in terms of markets. Heavy concentration of exports in few commodities and few markets can lead to export instability. Like exports, Pakistan’s imports are also highly concentrated in few items like machinery, petroleum and petroleum products, chemicals, transport equipment, edible oil, iron & steel, fertiliser and tea. These eight categori es of imports accounted for 75.5 per cent of total imports during the last financial year. Among these categories, machinery, petroleum & petroleum products and chemicals accounted for 57.7 per cent of total imports. Concentration of imports remained, by and large, unchanged over the last one decade. Pakistan’s imports are highly concentrated in few countries. Over 40 per cent of them continue to originate from just seven countries namely, the USA, Japan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Germany, UK and Malaysia. Saudi Arabia is emerging as a major supplier to Pakistan followed by the USA and Japan. The need of the hour is to increase exports and reduce imports by striking certain balance and by introducing innovative policies by the government. Exporters generally maintain that Pakistani rupee is overvalued and needs to be lowered to increase exports. However, the government is not ready to accept this argument and asking them to improve their products so that they could get better price in the international market.

 

[ajpirzada]

Government withdraws 89 cases against Baloch leaders
QUETTA (December 10 2009): The Balochistan government has withdrawn 89 cases registered against leaders and activists of various nationalist political organisations on political grounds, official sources said Wednesday. The sources further said that the provincial Home Department received orders from the CM House regarding withdrawal of the cases.

Those who benefited from the decision include Nawabzada Bramdagh Bugti, Chief of Baloch Republican Party (BRP) and the grand son of late Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti, Sardar Akhtar Jan Mengal President Balochistan National Party, Dr Abdul Hayee Baloch former President National Party, Nawabzada Jamil Akbar Bugti son of late Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti, Hamid Achakzai of Pashtunkhwa Milli Awami Party, Dr Hakim Lehri (BRP), Jalil Raki (BRP), Sadiq Raisani advocate (BRP), Sangat Sana Baloch (BRP), former MPA Abdul Rahim Ziaratwal (PMAP), Lala Rauf (PMAP), Sohail Rajput advocate (JWP), Malik Abdul Wali Kakar (BNP-Mengal), Agha Hasan Baloch BNP-Mengal), Shahzeb Baloch (BSO), Asif Baloch (BSO) and Dr Allah Nazar Baloch.

Business Recorder [Pakistan's First Financial Daily]

---------- Post added at 01:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 AM ----------

only thing im worried about is that u let these ppl loose and they ll exploit it to their max by addin to more violence.

 

[qsaark]

I don't care about what part belong to who. I think it will bring the balance and economical improve the region if Pakistan government divide Baluchistan area into 5 smaller provinces. Pakistan should start with Makran and LesBela and then further divide the reset of the region including NWFP.

Pakistan can't survive as 4 provinces and F** FATA region. Pakistani leadership has to be some drastic changes to united the country and take it out from misery and pain. Pakistan needs to improve it's economy, by improving the balance between Import & Export. Pakistan needs to move away from just agriculture base economy to more base on IT, Techonolgy, Engineering goods, Seafood export, Tea export, Fertilizer, Pharmaceutical Export, Chemical, Petroleum, etc.

As far as making more administrative units are concerned, I fully support the idea, however, under present circumstances, it is not feasible. Let the provinces get provincial autonomy; let the dust settle a bit, than talk about dividing each province into smaller administrative units.

 

[ejaz007]

US took up Pak concerns on Balochistan with India: Mullen
Thursday, December 10, 2009
By Sami Abraham

WASHINGTON: Admiral Michael Mullen, US chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff, has said the US was aware of Pakistan’s concerns in Balochistan and this subject was a constant part of his conversations with Pakistan’s Army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and his Indian counterpart Gen Kapoor.

In an exclusive interview with The News/Jang and Geo News here on Tuesday afternoon, Admiral Mullen also acknowledged the importance of Kashmir issue and said resolution of this longstanding dispute between India and Pakistan would have a positive impact on the overall regional stability.

Mullen said Pakistani concerns about the Indian involvement in Balochistan were also discussed with his former Indian counterpart Admiral Mehta and the Pakistani military leadership was aware of it. “And we need to get to the points where these are resolved,” he added.

When asked what type of intelligence has been shared by the US with the Pakistani military about those Afghan Taliban groups, who were allegedly operating from Pakistan and were not being targeted by the Pakistani security forces, Admiral Mullen said he has expressed concern that the centre of terror does not include just the Pakistani Taliban but also the Afghan Taliban who were killing Americans and the coalition partners as well as the al-Qaeda activists that were living in the Pak-Afghan border areas.

He said Pakistan is a sovereign country and the Pakistani military has taken significant steps, especially over the last year, to address these challenges. “But we need to help each other more to address these challenges,” he said. As the level of extremism has increased in Pakistan, the threat continues to grow and the linkage between these Taliban and al-Qaeda also continues to grow, he added.

Admiral Mullen said the overall US strategy was a partnership where “we could work on these mutual concerns, certainly recognising the sovereignty of Pakistan”. When asked if there was any communication gap between the Pentagon and the GHQ as now the US has to deal with a political government in Islamabad whereas previously Musharraf was heading the government and the military as well, Mullen replied in the negative and said communication with Gen Kayani was frequent and the relations with Pakistani Army were strong and constant with a full recognition of challenges.

About the US not playing role to bring India to the dialogue table with Pakistan, Mullen said President Obama’s strategy towards Pakistan and Afghanistan is based on regional approach which includes India and other countries of the Central Asia. He said India is a critical player, adding that he was encouraged by the steps taken by Indian political leadership to adjust troops’ formation on the Kashmir border.

He said though it would be very difficult to resolve the longstanding Kashmir dispute but if resolved it would have a big impact on the security and stability in the region. When asked what was the strategy to talk to those Taliban groups who were willing to disassociate themselves from al-Qaeda, Admiral Mullen said the young fighters and junior Taliban who were non-ideological fighters were being welcomed in Afghanistan, if they were willing to put down their arms. But, he added: “I have not seen much of it within senior leaders of LeT and JuD.”

Rather there was much more collaboration in attacks in Pakistan and all of them were now working much more closely now which was a worrying trend, he said. Earlier in a briefing, Admiral Mullen also acknowledged that Saudi Arabia was playing a role in bringing various Taliban groups to the negotiation table.

US took up Pak concerns on Balochistan with India: Mullen

 

[jupiter2007]

As far as making more administrative units are concerned, I fully support the idea, however, under present circumstances, it is not feasible. Let the provinces get provincial autonomy; let the dust settle a bit, than talk about dividing each province into smaller administrative units.

It is the best time. Pakistan government will never get a better chance to do this. Army and government has to compromise. Hang Zardari and bring Imran Khan as the President. I don't care if it is democratically and politically correct or not.
Pakistan need to close Pakistan - Afghanistan border, build a f* 3 feet thick wall, no Taliban or RAW can cross into Pakistan.

 

[Khajur]

Its shocking to hear that the biggest province of Balochistan which has rich mineral resources such as natural gas , coal etc receives negligible amount of money for development from GOP .

Contrast this with insurgency prone indian Kashmir whose contribution to GDP is miniscule ,but collects largest amount of central govt aid as budgetary support every year.

 

[ajpirzada]

As far as making more administrative units are concerned, I fully support the idea, however, under present circumstances, it is not feasible. Let the provinces get provincial autonomy; let the dust settle a bit, than talk about dividing each province into smaller administrative units.

btw wat do u think about the steps being taken by current gov?

NFC, 120Bn in royalty for Sui, recovery of missin persons, withdrawl of army, droppin of cases against everyone.
and then provincial autonomy will be given to all provinces together and not to one province alone.

do u think this will be a gud step fwd. and will reduce the anger amongst baloch brothers?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

There is a sill a big IF on whether the 7th NFC award will be passed with consensus, and whether the proposed constitutional reforms in provincial autonomy will go through.

I think there is a lot of skepticism on both those counts, especially the latter issue of autonomy, which is probably the biggest demand from the Baluch side.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Its shocking to hear that the biggest province of Balochistan which has rich mineral resources such as natural gas , coal etc receives negligible amount of money for development from GOP .

Contrast this with insurgency prone indian Kashmir whose contribution to GDP is miniscule ,but collects largest amount of central govt aid as budgetary support every year.

I am going to copy over a post of mine in another thread to answer this:

Punjab province is close to 57% of Pakistan's total population, but Punjabis as an ethnic group (identified on the basis of having Punjabi as their mother tongue) are a plurality of around 44%. The difference is largely made up by the Seraiki speaking population which are a little over 10%.

South Punjab is not as developed as the rest of Punjab, which is why the argument is made that there should be a division and the PML-N came under a lot of criticism after their provincial budget recently in that very little was allocated to South Punjab for development when it is already more backward and undeveloped.

Revenue distribution in Pakistan has traditionally been on the basis of population. That obviously benefits the province with the larger populations. In itself it is not a bad criteria for distribution of resources. However other provinces have argued for including criteria such as 'backwardness and size of province (Baluchistan argues in favor of both while NWFP argues in favor of the former) and revenue collection (Sindh).

The current discussions on the NFC award (National Finance Commission - that provides the framework for vertical and horizontal distribution of resources between the center and the provinces), are focused on coming up with a composite basket of criteria for horizontal distribution of resources. Obviously every province wants to argue in favor of the criteria that nets it the most money.

Now on the subject of Baluchistan's revenue share - on the basis of the past criteria of 'population', Baluchistan gets more than its population as a proportion of the total population suggests.

Baluchistan only has a population of about 6 million - that is probably less than the current population of Lahore alone, which is why its revenue share has been so low, though it is higher than the other provinces on a per capita basis. I think they have a valid argument on the issue of allocating more resources to them on the basis of backwardness and size (Baluchistan is over 40% of Pakistan's territory), but even in a composite basket those criteria will have a relatively low weight - population will continue to be the largest factor in allocating resources, which is at it should be for the most part.

I think in the end what Baluchistan and the other provinces want is more fiscal and administrative autonomy. As someone who believes in decentralization, I think that is important since it allows the people of every province to hold their provincial legislators accountable - what is the point of having massive provincial expenses in paying the salaries and perks of MPA's and provincial governments if they just pass the buck, for their failures, on to the Federal Government?

 

[qsaark]

btw wat do u think about the steps being taken by current gov?

NFC, 120Bn in royalty for Sui, recovery of missin persons, withdrawl of army, droppin of cases against everyone.
and then provincial autonomy will be given to all provinces together and not to one province alone.

do u think this will be a gud step fwd. and will reduce the anger amongst baloch brothers?

They are all good steps in the right direction except for few. I think these steps are a result of some intense backdoor diplomacy though neither party will perhaps ever acknowledge this. Some hard-line Baloch leaders will keep giving statements they think suit them politically, but they have little if any choice to reject above mentioned steps altogether simply because provincial autonomy is not yet granted.

There are certain things that I totally disapprove such as PMs promise to give job to every Graduate from Balochistan (or of ethnic Baloch origin, I am not sure). By granting such concessions, the Government is not doing any good to Balochs rather spoiling them. Additionally, this is just not fair that every Graduate from Balochistan, irrespective of how he has obtained the degree (you guess what I mean) gets the job but graduates from other provinces don’t. Government has to keep a balance between surrendering and negotiations which to be honest with you, I don’t see.

If the suggested proposals ever materialized, and if their benefit reach to the common Baloch, than the GoP essentially wins. However, if the benefits remain restricted within few privileged families (of Balochistan), than Balochistan problem is going to get worst.

Major problem is, the GoP is not tackling the situation professionally. If Baloch are complaining that there are not enough Baloch on the key positions such as in the Balochistan secretariat, police or other departments, than the answer is not to announce jobs for them without considering whether individual candidates deserve or not; but to talk to the people, explain to them why that is the case, and educate/convince them how they can be on the key positions once they make themselves eligible. There could be incentives such as once a Baloch candidate meets the minimum critera (educational qualification, training etc), he will be given a job immediately, that he will not be transferred outside his province for lets say first 5-10 years etc. Announcements can also be made that in a given department, the non-Balochistan domicile employees will be gradually replaced with Balochistan domicile employees over a period of say 5 years.

I mean lot of things can be offered with certain conditions. Ask the Balochs to share the burdon, we do this much for you, and you do this much for yourself. Tell them what practical and what is not practical. That is all I can say on these ‘steps’ as a very proud Pakistani and equally proud Balochistan resident.

 

[ajpirzada]

Center, Provinces reach consensus on NFC
Updated at: 1917 PST, Friday, December 11, 2009
LAHORE: The four provinces have reached a consensus on the 7th National Finance Commission (NFC) Award here on Friday.

The decision was made at a meeting attended by chief ministers of the four provinces.
The issue of NFC Award had been lingering on for 19 years which has now been resolved with unanimity and an accommodating approach of the provinces.

However, the federation has made historic sacrifices over the division of national resources among the provinces. The federation has raised the provinces share by 8.5 percent.

In a joint media conference here at Chief Minister House, Federal Finance Minister Shaukat Tarin and the four chief ministers said that the federation has raised the share of provinces in the divisible pool from 47.5 percent to 56 percent.

The distribution of resources under the new formula will be made from the next financial year. The distribution will be made on the basis of multiple-criteria - population (82 percent); poverty and backwardness (10.6 percent) and; revenue and other factors will form the rest of the percentage.

The Punjab will get 51.74 percent from the total of 56 percent share of the divisible pool; Sindh 24.24 percent; NWFP 14.6 and; Balochistan will receive 9 percent of the provinces share.

Balochistan will be given Rs83 billion in view of its special needs while the Federal government will meet all the expenses of the ongoing war against terrorism.

On the occasion Shaukat Tarin said that Sales Tax is a provincial matter, so the provinces will levy taxes in this regard on their own discretion.

Center, Provinces reach consensus on NFC - GEO.tv