Pakistan's Pashtuns Feel More Alone Than Ever

[All-Green]

I think Pakistan should respect the sovereignity of Afghanistan and should stay away from interfering in internal affairs of afghanistan .By supporting talibans and sendings recruits from pakistan to afghanistan, it is playing double games. On one hand it is grabbing billions of dollars from US in the name of war on terror while on another hand it is secretly supporting talibans in afghanistan?
You are supporting taliban regime in kabul, would you suggest it for islamabad?

Can you imagine UAE style of Princely rule in USA?
Yet both are doing quite well and the people are happy, it is all subjective.

What was happening in Afghanistan before the Taliban gained support?
Deliberately turning a blind eye to the prevalent conditions which ushered in Taliban is clearly a huge mistake most people make.

Pakistan and Afghanistan are quite different cases because of Afghan war and resulting chaos, Afghanistan was utterly at the mercy of war lords when Taliban gained public support.
The warlords had as much experience and weapons as Taliban but had lost support of masses due to constant infighting in which life and property was decimated.
The Taliban were a reaction to the civil war.

It was the public which supported Taliban and the reason was that the public was sick of living under a thousand tyrants and just wanted uniformity, it may not have loved it but there were upsides to the Taliban as well. This is compared to the warlords prior to Taliban who were in no way less brutal and yet did not have any cohesive set of rules to ensure uniformity across Afghanistan.

This does not imply that all Taliban did was the will of the public, however they did have a few major things going in their favor when compared with the Mujahideen Warlords, this is all that was needed to rally support.

Mullah Omar's Taliban are a cohesive entity, and can still be negotiated with and expected to hold control within their ranks.
That is the only reason any sane person would want them to be part of any negotiation in future of Afghanistan.

Regarding Pakistan, what has Afghanistan been doing since the day Pakistan came into being?
It did not recognize Pakistan.
It tried to instigate a rebellion in Pakistan's Tribal areas.
It claimed land belonging to Pakistan and remained aggressive towards Pakistan.
So Pakistan has to ensure that it supports a group which is not aggressive to the concept of Pakistan and has enough sway over the masses.
Afghan Taliban are such a group, simple as that.

Regarding TTP and its associates, they are not the same entity as Afghan Taliban.
They are mostly people who have had no part in Afghan Jihad and are young, heavily funded and specifically target Pakistan's stability.
They are not limited to KPK province and have killed thousands in Punjab as well, so where is the writer going with this trying to limit the destruction from Swat to Wazirstan only?
How many killings have taken place in the heart of Punjab which is far away from KPK?
Only a person without a relevant knowledge would believe such a tale that Pashtuns are being targeted by Pakistan while they are actually a key part of every foundation of Pakistan including the Civil Service, Army, Intelligentsia etc.

The Pashtuns are as much part of Pakistan as any other with top ranking posts of COAS (strongest man in Pakistan), Provincial Governors, IGs/DIGs of Police etc. going to Pashtun Pakistanis, there is no doubt about their capability, patriotism and status in Pakistan.
Only a fool or a person with an agenda can claim otherwise, disregarding such hard evidences to the contrary.

The Article is a farce really since GOP is not providing enough funds to all provinces due to many issues of circular debts etc.
There is no anti Pashtun element to it, there are just many issues and problems facing GOP even if it was extremely efficient, which it is not.

It is the key attribute of third class politicians and journalists to twist such general issues into something else in order to promote certain strong emotions beneficial to their own agenda.

 

[TaimiKhan]

@ All Green Sir, you just hit the Bulls Eye, you have presented the crux of this whole situation. If anyone has brains, will understand the whole situation, those who won't have it, will keep on arguing the usual rant as their brains can't think that far.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

great post all green. Oh by the way, DG ISI is also Pakhtun

 

[All-Green]

great post all green. Oh by the way, DG ISI is also Pakhtun

Spot on mate, whereas Pashtun Pakistanis are an ever increasing dominant force in the affairs of Pakistan, there is an exact opposite phenomena occurring across the border whereby Pashtuns no more enjoy the dominance they once did...

However we are being led to believe that Pakistan's Pashtuns are being isolated and are growing disillusioned with Pakistan...

Dream on I say, dream on...

 

[Ahmad]

Spot on mate, whereas Pashtun Pakistanis are an ever increasing dominant force in the affairs of Pakistan, there is an exact opposite phenomena occurring across the border whereby Pashtuns no more enjoy the dominance they once did...

However we are being led to believe that Pakistan's Pashtuns are being isolated and are growing disillusioned with Pakistan...

Dream on I say, dream on...

In a multi ethnic country like afghanistan no any single ethnic group must have monoply over the gov affairs, right now the pashtoons have the biggest share in the gov, but do not have monoply like during the taliban time and zahir/dawod time. on the other hand, a dominant pashton gov in afghanistan is surely not to the benefit of pakistan either, hope we dont forget the Zahir Shah and Dawood that didnt even recognize pakistan's existence, and their motive was primarily ethncity and the issue of NWFP presently KP. At least you dont see this territorial issue with the non pashtoons of afghanistan.

 

[The Clarifier]

Agreed... nice post green!

This clarified a few questions, as a teenager, I had about Pakistan-Taliban relationships... it will be interesting to see what happens after Afghan war... for some reason, certain consequences are always the same.

 

[MYSTIC]

No I am not racist but the truth is Ghauri , Ghaznavi and Mughals were all non browns who came from north and ruled brown India. Sorry for hurting any one fellings as I am a non racit and down to earth person but India has always been ruled by non browns and that what histroy tells us.

I don't think those land offered anything to the conquerers. While rest of the known India offered them gold and riches, and importantly fertile land and ample water.

 

[PAKFA]

No I am not racist but the truth is Ghauri , Ghaznavi and Mughals were all non browns who came from north and ruled brown India. Sorry for hurting any one fellings as I am a non racit and down to earth person but India has always been ruled by non browns and that what histroy tells us.

In this way you are hurting the feeling of all Pakistanis.But some how you are true . Before this time there was no Islam , when ghauri , ghaznavi came as a attacker they converted all of them especially western part of India affected worst at that time.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

In a multi ethnic country like afghanistan no any single ethnic group must have monoply over the gov affairs, right now the pashtoons have the biggest share in the gov, but do not have monoply like during the taliban time and zahir/dawod time.

yes but then what about an institution like the A'N'A?

Real issue starts from the top and goes downwards (though some may agree its the other way around, which is also possible)

Ministers induct officials and personnel from their own ethnic group and generally neglect candidates belonging to other groups. This has caused a widespread disregard to merit and competence.

Even during the parliamentary and presidential elections votes were cast on ethnic lines. Almost all the people voted for a candidate belonging to their ethnic group.

I think NATOs biggest mistake is the same mistake made by the Americans in Iraq --- they alienated a substantially large group of people (the moderate taleban and the baathists as a whole, respectively)

a lot of people argue that Pakhtuns (and even others) in Afghanistan, opt for taleban simply because they represent a large group of Pakhtuns and/or they, despite their rigididity, brought peace and order to the war-torn country

but that's a whole other discussion

on the other hand, a dominant pashton gov in afghanistan is surely not to the benefit of pakistan either, hope we dont forget the Zahir Shah and Dawood that didnt even recognize pakistan's existence, and their motive was primarily ethncity and the issue of NWFP presently KP.

they learned the hard way not to have any aggressive designs....oh yes they did.

At least you dont see this territorial issue with the non pashtoons of afghanistan.

some of the tajik war-lords tend to be anti-Pakistan (and by default, ''good'' in the books of the indians).

Pakistan Nation prefers a stable Afghanistan where there is no ethnic tensions or problems; we aren't Vikings, we want good relations with everyone --especially all groups in Afghanistan

what do we get out of having enemies there....i think some people are still confused on this

 

[The Clarifier]

Actually, a friendly Afghanistan was always in Pakistan's interests... hence the Taliban. If there were better ways, Pakistan would've opted for them before the Soviet Afghan War.

 

[WAQAS119]

"Pakistan's Pashtuns Feel More Alone Than Ever"
When did this happen? I am a pushtun and I am not feeling alone

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

"Pakistan's Pashtuns Feel More Alone Than Ever"
When did this happen? I am a pushtun and I am not feeling alone

DAMN U.

 

[Ahmad]

yes but then what about an institution like the A'N'A?

Abo Zolfiqar brother,
Does Afghanistan start and end with ANA, there are many other ministies, departments, provincial setup and god knows what more? secondly, Tajik, Hazara and Uzbek compose around 55-60% of the country, no wonder why they have higher number of personell in the army, and by the way, nobody is holding anybody back to enroll in the army, anybody can do it, even the taliban!

Real issue starts from the top and goes downwards (though some may agree its the other way around, which is also possible)

I couldnt get this point, but i assume you mean that the pashtoons have gone down which i dont agree with you. people here always cry for pashtoons, but they never take their time to see how much the non pashtoons suffered under the pashtoon rulers for the whole century or more, we even now are not equal to the pashtons, we are not allowed to sing national anthem in our langauge(persian), it is in pashtoo, all the official titles, military language, cultural funding etc goes to pashtoo language and culture, even a tajik journalist was punished by karzai gov for using farsi terms in his reports, bear in mind that this is the best we have got so far in afghanistan, you can imagine how bad our situation was during the time that Pashtoons did not have biggest share of the gov, but they were dominant!! I wonder if the same thing would have been acceptable to other pakistani ethnicities especially pashtoons if the panjabis had taken that line against them.

Ministers induct officials and personnel from their own ethnic group and generally neglect candidates belonging to other groups. This has caused a widespread disregard to merit and competence.

That is a sad truth, and what makes you say that the non pashtoons are only responsible this action? pashtoons do the same thing.

Even during the parliamentary and presidential elections votes were cast on ethnic lines. Almost all the people voted for a candidate belonging to their ethnic group.

Another sad truth, i am afraid this is happening in pakistan too along with bad violence.

I think NATOs biggest mistake is the same mistake made by the Americans in Iraq --- they alienated a substantially large group of people (the moderate taleban and the baathists as a whole, respectively)

a lot of people argue that Pakhtuns (and even others) in Afghanistan, opt for taleban simply because they represent a large group of Pakhtuns and/or they, despite their rigididity, brought peace and order to the war-torn country

And who argues this? perhaps our paksitani frineds? They dont represent large part of population, according to a survey only 6% of the population was in favour of the taliban.

they learned the hard way not to have any aggressive designs....oh yes they did.

No may friend, nobody have learned anything, pashtoon nationalism is sadly well and alive in Afghanistan and even got stronger than the time of Zahir, his father and Dawood, and that includes the good Taliban, they are now busy fighting their opponents, once they clear it all, you'll see the whole truth about it.

some of the tajik war-lords tend to be anti-Pakistan (and by default, ''good'' in the books of the indians).

I am sure you mean the former mujahideen? the same guys that pakistan sent to Afghanistan. Although i personally dont approve of these so called Mujahideen be it from any ethnicity, i dont see why they had rejected the indian hand once pakistan supported and armed their opponents(taliban and hekmatyar).

Pakistan Nation prefers a stable Afghanistan where there is no ethnic tensions or problems; we aren't Vikings, we want good relations with everyone --especially all groups in Afghanistan

I am glad to hear that, but active policy of pakistan have been based on ethnicity in AFghanistan.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I couldnt get this point, but i assume you mean that the pashtoons have gone down which i dont agree with you. people here always cry for pashtoons, but they never take their time to see how much the non pashtoons suffered under the pashtoon rulers for the whole century or more, we even now are not equal to the pashtons, we are not allowed to sing national anthem in our langauge(persian), it is in pashtoo, all the official titles, military language, cultural funding etc goes to pashtoo language and culture, even a tajik journalist was punished by karzai gov for using farsi terms in his reports

in my opinion, that is very wrong and should be corrected

language is merely a means and tool of communicating with others....

That is a sad truth, and what makes you say that the non pashtoons are only responsible this action? pashtoons do the same thing.

i'd be lying if i said that

And who argues this? perhaps our paksitani frineds? They dont represent large part of population, according to a survey only 6% of the population was in favour of the taliban.

well it's interesting how in 2001, coalition troops faced hardly any resistance; talebs were sent packing. 9 years later there are different ground realities. Seems that some who were even ardently opposed would grudgingly accept talebs simply because they are seen as least of all evils

No may friend, nobody have learned anything, pashtoon nationalism is sadly well and alive in Afghanistan and even got stronger than the time of Zahir, his father and Dawood, and that includes the good Taliban, they are now busy fighting their opponents, once they clear it all, you'll see the whole truth about it.

what happens in Afghanistan is purely Afghan affairs; as long as it doesnt have repercussions for Pakistan and its territorial sovereignty.

I'm a Pakhtun but i don't believe in Pakhtun nationalism. I've had Afghans on internet even label me 'traitor' simply because I proudly display Pakistani flag.

I am sure you mean the former mujahideen? the same guys that pakistan sent to Afghanistan. Although i personally dont approve of these so called Mujahideen be it from any ethnicity,

they fought for a noble cause against foreign occupation and barbarity

i dont see why they had rejected the indian hand once pakistan supported and armed their opponents(taliban and hekmatyar).

they didnt reject indian hand; they were assisting people with as questionable human rights record as some of the talebs

I am glad to hear that, but active policy of pakistan have been based on ethnicity in AFghanistan.

stability and end to scourge of drugs; not ethnicity

for linguistic and cultural reasons, there is more interaction with the Pakhtuns; while the same logic applies to Iran and some CARs with regard to the non-Pakhtun groups like the Hazaras, Turkmen, Tajiks etc.

big problem for Muslim unity is this whole issue of sects and ethnocentrism

 

[Ahmad]

in my opinion, that is very wrong and should be corrected

language is merely a means and tool of communicating with others....

True and agree with it, but sadly in Afghanistan it is a hot matter, this stupid thing was started by Zahir and Dawood. but that is not the only thing, non pashtoon villages get attacked and looted by pashtoon nomads, it has become norm, although not as much as it was during the taliban.

i'd be lying if i said that

well it's interesting how in 2001, coalition troops faced hardly any resistance; talebs were sent packing. 9 years later there are different ground realities. Seems that some who were even ardently opposed would grudgingly accept talebs simply because they are seen as least of all evils

Maybe among the pashtoons, but certainly not among the non pashtons who are around 55% of the population, the same thing can bne said about the pashtoons of pakistan giving support to the TTP and other FATA based groups. dont forget that the Taliban with a systematic and brutal method wiped out the jirga and tribal system to gain support, the same tactic was applied in NWFP/FATA as well, take a look into this: Taliban Violence Creating Social Revolution Among Pashtuns | EurasiaNet.org

I'm a Pakhtun but i don't believe in Pakhtun nationalism. I've had Afghans on internet even label me 'traitor' simply because I proudly display Pakistani flag.

I am glad to hear that and you will have my respect even further, ethno nationalism is wrong and a recepi for disaster. By the way, hope you know that those Afghans are the pashtoon ones, we dont have any issue with the KP, it is integral part of pakistan and end of it.

they fought for a noble cause against foreign occupation and barbarity

I have lost my family members during the soviet time fightig against them, and now we feel very badly betrayed and angry by what happend and how we were decieved by our so called leaders as well as the other countries, wish we never had the mistake of fighting, we lost our afghanistan.

stability and end to scourge of drugs; not ethnicity

Musharaf once had said that the Pashtoons must be dominant in Afghanistan's affairs, that statement was strongly rejected by pashtoon Zahir Shah, it is not uncommon to hear these statements from pakistanand see it in practice, but lets hope for a better understanding in the future.

big problem for Muslim unity is this whole issue of sects and ethnocentrism

Muslim unity etc have lost the meaning for me. i might be wrong but it is personal opinion.