Pakistan's Nuclear Submarine Project

[ChineseTiger1986]

appreciate ur arrogance.....

I am getting addicted with coffee, never mind.

 

[darkinsky]

the problem pakistan faces is R&D facilities which it should work on

pakistan cant upgrade jf17 to block 2 without china's help, same is the case with the nuke sub, pakistan can already make the diesel subs, it just needs to be upgraded for nuke version and miniaturisation of the reactor..

1 thing im against this prog

1) it will burden pakistan's economy

__________

btw i just wonder how disasterous would it be if the nuke sub explodes inocean, i mean it will be radioactive ocean all over the world,isnt it?? a calamity of limitless proportions

 

[IndianArmy]

the problem pakistan faces is R&D facilities which it should work on

pakistan cant upgrade jf17 to block 2 without china's help, same is the case with the nuke sub, pakistan can already make the diesel subs, it just needs to be upgraded for nuke version and miniaturisation of the reactor..

Which propulsion and Sonars do Pakistani submarines use.. Indigenous ATAS sonars?

 

[GR!FF!N]

Arihant can only host some short range SLBMs, that's why it is so small.

it'll host small numbers of K-4 too,which is a Long range SLBM.by the way,I think later submarines of Arihant subs are going to bigger than Arihant.

 

[GR!FF!N]

The Qing class SSKs are not the nuclear subs, but it is capable to launch the nuclear SLBMs, also its AIP and hydraulic technologies are what the Pakistan Navy needs for its SSN/SSBN.

i don't think Pakistan should go for Qing class,and its not nuclear subs.its better they go for western subs.

by the way,if they buy Qing,they are not going to get long range cruise and land attack missiles..right???

 

[A.Rafay]

The Pakistan Navy pushed forward a proposal to build its own nuclear submarine as a direct response to the Indian nuclear submarine program. Many U.S. military experts believe that Pakistan has the capability of building a nuclear submarine and is ready to build such a fleet, but Pakistan's Navy has cautiously monitored the status of India’s development of nuclear submarines, and has reserved the right to take appropriate measures in response. Finally in 2012, the Navy announced it would start work on and construction of a nuclear submarine to better meet the Indian Navy's nuclear threat.According to the Navy, the nuclear submarine is an ambitious project, and will be designed and built indigenously. However, the Navy stressed that "the project completion and trials would take anywhere from between 5 to 8 years to build the nuclear submarine after which Pakistan would join the list of countries that has a nuclear submarine."
Pakistani Navy to Develop Nuclear-Powered Submarines: Reports
Pakistan Navy to build nuclear submarine

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

the problem pakistan faces is R&D facilities which it should work on

pakistan cant upgrade jf17 to block 2 without china's help, same is the case with the nuke sub, pakistan can already make the diesel subs, it just needs to be upgraded for nuke version and miniaturisation of the reactor..

1 thing im against this prog

1) it will burden pakistan's economy

Sir we have no experience to make AESA radar and other advanced components, Even India and many other advance countries can't make Aesa radar and other advance techs. This is not a child play or puzzle games.

Of course Nuclear Powered countries can produce nuclear powered submarine if they have experience for diesel submarines.
Big difference is the propulsion system and to modify according to it. Today, Nuclear reactor can be small and compact. There is no surprise if Pakistan is planning for small nuclear powdered submarine. Big and Massive nuclear submarines have more chance to get caught. Small nuclear powered submarine requires Less maintenance than the 10,000+ tons submarines. Also we have not much wide sea area.

As the advancement in Science continues, Big things are converting to small things with latest techs and same capabilities.
I.e, Oldest big room computers with only 50MB processor, Today tiny small computers with 4+Gb processor and with additional capabilities.
Same thing is with Nuclear reactors getting Small with same performance and Less Noise.

 

[mughaljee]

Work at Nuclear Submarine Project has been started or not ? and are we going to built this in Karachi ?

 

[T90TankGuy]

this is the actual article posted.:
Grande Strategy

20/2/2012

In late 2011 an internet rumor spread about Pakistan's development of nuclear submarines and in early 2012, we have heard major news networks in Pakistan announce the development of Pakistan's nuclear submarines "in 5-8 years". The earliest news of Pakistan's nuclear submarine project was in 2006 when General Musharraf announced that Pakistan now has the technology to build nuclear submarines.


The first point to ponder is that Pakistan, unlike certain other countries, prefers to develop weapon systems quietly. If this kind of announcements are coming out, in all probability Pakistan already has a nuclear submarine, or at minimum critical components, well underway. The most critical component is the nuclear power plant, and the news thus points to the development of a miniature power plant.

RUMINT suggests that Pakistan's nuclear submarine is likely to be based on the Qing Class Chinese SSK, which Pakistan is believed to receive 6 units of. Given the giant size of the Qing Class (5,000-6,000 tons), the submarine is ideally suited as the basis for a Pakistani SSN / SSBN. RUMINT also suggests that Pakistan is seeking a smaller sized nuclear sub that sacrifices speed for simplicity and ease of maintenance. The basic idea is that instead of hydraulic propulsion, the Pakistani subs will utilize an all-electric propulsion system that is charged by the nuclear power plant.


Such an arrangement fits in perfectly for the following reasons:

1. Pakistani SSNs/SSBNs do not need to keep up with a carrier group or large-scale task force; They are likely to operate solo, making the loss of possibly 3-5 knots in speed less relevant.

2. The Qing Class (and other SSKs) already have a highly advanced electric propulsion system. The Pakistani nuclear submarine would thus be a replacement of the diesel engine power generation with a nuclear power plant.

3. Electric propulsion has traditionally lagged behind hydraulic propulsion, but recent advances in the former has significantly reduced the gap in performance between the two.

4. Sets up future improvements in technology which are headed towards magnetohydrodynamic propulsion, saving on investment in hydraulic submarine propulsion which would have been a technological dead-end investment.

Taking a closer look at the possible type of nuclear power plant to be utilized, it is likely to be a small pressurized light water reactor. Such a reactor would require some R&D given that Pakistan does not have much expertise in light water reactors, and because the need for miniaturization. However, given Chinese expertise and potential assistance, this should not prove to be a difficult challenge to overcome. Moreover, Pakistan has a highly qualified and competent nuclear establishment that should be able to meet the challenge, insh'Allah.

Another potential help may have been the transfer of technology from France with the Agosta 90B submarine purchase. A number of key technologies were transferred including design and development skills and tools. Building of hulls and experience with Western subsystems, many of which are used in the French nuclear submarines would help the Pakistani SSN / SSBN, if it already has not found its way to the Chinese Qing Class.

In sum, while India is preparing her first indigenous nuclear submarine, Pakistan is well underway in making an equivalent capability upgrade. While the time-frame given in the media is 5-8 years, it is very possible that Pakistan is capable of building and fielding such a submarine in 3-5 years. The timeline for building and deploying such a sub is mainly dependent on how quickly and successfully the Indian nuclear submarine program is able to field and operate a submarine.

UPDATE 17/3/2012:

Two rumors from Pervaiz Shamim:
1. The nuclear submarine project and the Qing Class are separate developments
2. There is a South American country, rumored to be Argentina that is interested in some form of partnership in the (nuclear submarine) project.

Although I have a high regard for Brother Shamim, I think the first point is misinformation meant to shroud China's role and the extent of the Qing Class lineage. The second issue about Argentina is very speculative but is just possible. A more realistic partner would be Brazil. I would also throw in Turkey as a collaborator. Pakistan-Turkey-Brazil-Argentina (?) I think there is definitely loose collaboration on specific subsystems and technologies between at least the first three, if not Argentina.

I do think that the Argentinians are taking a closer look at the JF-17. However, there is very little to go by in terms of Argentina-Pakistan relations, and far more in terms of Brazil-Pakistan, where collaboration has gone to the extent of transfer of technology and weapon systems such as the MAR-1s and MAA-1As, and is likely to include the A-Darter and/or the MAA-1Bs in the future.




so all of this is based on rumors mate , there is nothing concrete .

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Big and Massive nuclear submarines have more chance to get caught. Small nuclear powered submarine requires Less maintenance than the 10,000+ tons submarines. Also we have not much wide sea area.

The Arabian Sea is huge and has very deep water, it shouldn't have any problem to hide some 10,000+ tons SSBNs.

Also the modern SSBNs can't be really small as you need to host at least 12 intercontinental SLBMs.

 

[amardeep mishra]

They do have, please read the article.

Hi,
To be brutally honest,pakistan has again never designed any civilian nuclear reactor(for energy purpose) let alone a highly miniaturized naval variant of it that can sustain higher degrees of shock tolerances required for a naval reactor,for instance the reactor of oscar-2 class can sustain 50gs.
The sole desire for PN to have a nuke subs stems from the fact that india has it- while india has developed various types of indigenous reactors(starting from PHWRs,FBRs,to CHTR,india has also recently designed an indigenous 900MW light water reactor as opposed to the mainstay 700MW PHWR design) and in fact have offered 220MW and 550MW PHWRs designs for export,on the other hand, pakistan has literally neither the research nor the industries that can support the reactor design and development-
for instance pakistan doesnt have industries that can manufacture-
(a) pressure vessel of the reactor- coz that requires heavy forging capabilities
(b) steam generators
(c) steam turbines
(d) Pressurizers
(e) huge generators
(f) DCS and SCADA that are typically used in process industries and power plants alike
And more importantly the fuel cycle for a particular type of reactor
Pakistan would need to FIRST design and VALIDATE a reactor and only then can they realistically think about putting it in the hull of a submarine- till then it is pretty much a fan boy talk! One can not simply think aout running before learning to walk!

 

[Thorough Pro]

As per the pamphlets distributed outside Sunday Bazar on Pakistan Top secret projects, The up to date status is that this is a top secret program and no one knows about it. Please don't ask stupid questions or be ready for stupid answers.

Work at Nuclear Submarine Project has been started or not ? and are we going to built this in Karachi ?

To be Brutally honest, did the indians have natural talent to lay rockets (English word as in ANDA DAINA, not the URDU word as in ROCKET LAINA) or did you learn it from other countries?

Hi,
To be brutally honest,pakistan has again never designed any civilian nuclear reactor(for energy purpose) let alone a highly miniaturized naval variant of it that can sustain higher degrees of shock tolerances required for a naval reactor,for instance the reactor of oscar-2 class can sustain 50gs.
The sole desire for PN to have a nuke subs stems from the fact that india has it- while india has developed various types of indigenous reactors(starting from PHWRs,FBRs,to CHTR,india has also recently designed an indigenous 900MW light water reactor as opposed to the mainstay 700MW PHWR design) and in fact have offered 220MW and 550MW PHWRs designs for export,on the other hand, pakistan has literally neither the research nor the industries that can support the reactor design and development-
for instance pakistan doesnt have industries that can manufacture-
(a) pressure vessel of the reactor- coz that requires heavy forging capabilities
(b) steam generators
(c) steam turbines
(d) Pressurizers
(e) huge generators
(f) DCS and SCADA that are typically used in process industries and power plants alike
And more importantly the fuel cycle for a particular type of reactor
Pakistan would need to FIRST design and VALIDATE a reactor and only then can they realistically think about putting it in the hull of a submarine- till then it is pretty much a fan boy talk! One can not simply think aout running before learning to walk!

 

[amardeep mishra]

To be Brutally honest, did the indians have natural talent to lay rockets (English word as in ANDA DAINA, not the URDU word as in ROCKET LAINA) or did you learn it from other countries?

Dont you think you should have replied a bit more rationally?with arguments based on credible evidences and research literature?or that the education in Pakistan really need some overhauling?

 

[OrionHunter]

What would be the cost of each Qing Class sub?

 

[sathya]

Dont you think you should have replied a bit more rationally?with arguments based on credible evidences and research literature?or that the education in Pakistan really need some overhauling?

Hi, only few discuss research like, gambit, Dillinger..
that I know of..
you will know who, as time goes..

Based upon the replies you got, I came to the conclusion Pakistan imports most of the equipments and customises it for themselves .

Don't check mate them..

If somebody discuss in uncivilised way, just ignore them..
Just like the previous poster..