Pakistan's Nuclear Submarine Development | News and Discussions

[The Deterrent]

And what will such a brilliant move accomplish?? take a guess

Prompt massive retaliation? Yeah I know.

 

[MilSpec]

double post

 

[MilSpec]

Prompt massive retaliation? Yeah I know.

if correct checks and balances are still in power instead of demoilish india syndrome, will such a "brilliant move" be feasible to break the Indian navy blockade at the "price" you replied,

or instead 5 op eds in washington post stating the violation of sea lanes by blockade be more effective to bring a condemnation of India from US foreign sec to get the cbg back to mumbai...

take your pick

 

[Ticker]

if correct checks and balances are still in power instead of demoilish india syndrome, will such a "brilliant move" be feasible to break the Indian navy blockade at the "price" you replied,

or instead 5 op eds in washington post stating the violation of sea lanes by blockade be more effective to bring a condemnation of India from US foreign sec to get the cbg back to mumbai...

take your pick

How would you translate Indian Naval Blockade of Pakistan in practical terms.

If you have any understanding as to how a naval blockade against Pakistan would look like, please explain a bit. Because exhuming a confidant diatribe won't make you look like a naval Mackinder.

 

[The Deterrent]

if correct checks and balances are still in power instead of demoilish india syndrome, will such a "brilliant move" be feasible to break the Indian navy blockade at the "price" you replied,

or instead 5 op eds in washington post stating the violation of sea lanes by blockade be more effective to bring a condemnation of India from US foreign sec to get the cbg back to mumbai...

take your pick

It is not my pick. It would be Pakistan's National Command Authority's pick. Let us not derail the thread.

@ Topic: Pakistan doesn't needs a SSBN to complete the triad. The AIP-equipped submarines (Qing class) would be enough to maintain minimum credible deterrence against India.

 

[Ticker]

It is not my pick. It would be Pakistan's National Command Authority's pick. Let us not derail the thread.

@ Topic: Pakistan doesn't needs a SSBN to complete the triad. The AIP-equipped submarines (Qing class) would be enough to maintain minimum credible deterrence against India.

I am sorry Sir, I have a bit of difference here. In order to effectively counter the Indian naval blockade and for other defensive offensive operations, in addition to the AIPs, it would be prudent to have two to three nuclear submarines. These may or may not be SSBNs.

 

[IND151]

Well nuclear submarines isn't something we'd be surprised about. To operate them, you need oceanic depth in region. For some reason, your strategists seem to be keen on matching us weapon to weapon at any cost without thinking how much inner damage this would do to you especially in today's situation. Maintaining nuclear submarines isn't going to give you any advantage over us for the following reasons:

- You share a huge border with us and conventionally are within reach.
- Your land based missiles cover us already.
- Your aerial reach is also manageable to significant parts of our country.

So adding a third leg to you would be disastrous to your military budget. A strong underwater fleet is good but there's a reason why nuke submarines are not found with every other country on the planet. Operational costs and management are key words here.

Please take a look at the waters present in South Asia. Arihant would operate deep from IOR, Arabian Sea (off-coast Gujarat) and Bay of Bengal. Tell me; how would your nuclear submarine be of any strategic use when there is little or no territorial depth?

well put

however it is possible (a very distinct) that this sub is being designed with keeping in mind Israel as well

testing a missile at 3000 KM plus range, will prove that Pak can strike Israel with nukes but will also invite lot sanctions

on other hand building a SSGN armed with 1,000 to 1200 KM range CMs will be more effective,as it wont cross the mark of 3,000 KM and Pak will be still able to threaten Israel

just my two paise

 

[IND151]

Is it a common norm among navies?? Nuke tipped torpedoes...don't know much about it...

first nuclear powered soviet submarine Project 627 aka November class submarine, was armed with Nuke tipped torpedoes

I agree, we need to strengthen our navy to an extent that we can not only defend our coastline but also vital supply lines from the Arabian countries, this should also include going on the offensive.

During Kargil the IN blockaded Pakistani ports and Pakistan was short on oil supply, defending coastline is not enough when your supply lines are cut off by the enemy which hampers your war production/war effort.

???????????

 

[Ticker]

Original Post By Tshering22
>>>>>>Well nuclear submarines isn't something we'd be surprised about. To operate them, you need oceanic depth in region. For some reason, your strategists seem to be keen on matching us weapon to weapon at any cost without thinking how much inner damage this would do to you especially in today's situation. Maintaining nuclear submarines isn't going to give you any advantage over us for the following reasons:

- You share a huge border with us and conventionally are within reach.
- Your land based missiles cover us already.
- Your aerial reach is also manageable to significant parts of our country.

So adding a third leg to you would be disastrous to your military budget. A strong underwater fleet is good but there's a reason why nuke submarines are not found with every other country on the planet. Operational costs and management are key words here.

Please take a look at the waters present in South Asia. Arihant would operate deep from IOR, Arabian Sea (off-coast Gujarat) and Bay of Bengal. Tell me; how would your nuclear submarine be of any strategic use when there is little or no territorial depth?>>>>>




ha ha ha ...... all I can say is that your understanding of naval operations as well as land based operations and the ability to analyse the overall military environment is indeed based on shallow waters.

Go swim in some lake in Sick'em and drown yourself in ignominious defence analyses.

 

[The Deterrent]

ha ha ha ...... all I can say is that your understanding of naval operations as well as land based operations and the ability to analyse the overall military environment is indeed based on shallow waters.

Go swim in some lake in Sick'em and drown yourself in ignominious defence analyses.

He explained it right. Kindly refrain from trolling.

 

[Ticker]

He explained it right. Kindly refrain from trolling.

No he did not. His understanding of the environment is indeed shallow. I could have replied in detail but it is unnecessary to reply to people like him who have a clear anti-Pakistan bias and can not and would not listen to logic.

And I didn't troll, I stated facts. Period.

I don't need your permission to express myself in the way I want to. Go lump it.

 

[notorious_eagle]

I agree, we need to strengthen our navy to an extent that we can not only defend our coastline but also vital supply lines from the Arabian countries, this should also include going on the offensive.

During Kargil the IN blockaded Pakistani ports and Pakistan was short on oil supply, defending coastline is not enough when your supply lines are cut off by the enemy which hampers your war production/war effort.

What have you been smoking? At no point did IN impose a blockade against Pakistan, in fact i remember an Indian fishing vessel malfunctioned and entered Pakistan's shore. At no point did the IN enter Pakistan's shore and the vessel was towed out by USN.

A blockade against Pakistan is only a fancy dream, no doubt IN is highly superior against Pakistan but due to the asymmetrical threats and the geo political realities, it makes a blockade extremely unlikely. UNLOS is based on the premise of freedom of navigation and every major power subscribes to this opinion. What will the IN do if a Chinese or an American ship enter's Pakistan's waters with the intent of a commercial transaction? Will the IN apprehend the ship and declare the cargo as contraband? I have my sincere doubts about that.

 

[Contrarian]

Freedom of Navigation and UNCLOS is for high seas,not territorial water. IN can and most likely will impose a naval blockade on Pakistan.

All international vessels are warned of entering Pakistani Territorial waters by India in case of a blockade. If they chose to ignore that, they do so at own risk - risk of being bombed intentionally or unintentionally in case of plausible deniability if India wants to go that far.

Pakistan is not an exporter of any kind of good that is deemed globally invaluable - like Oil. So no country will force India to remove blockade as no country will have major import issues because of lack of Pakistani exports.
In this case, some countries may suffer due to lack of a market in Pakistan(ie Pakistan's imports), which is not even considered remotely as important as national imports.

Also, unlike the Straits of Hormuz, blockading Pakistan does not even affect the international sea routes as the sea lane is well away from Pakistan, so international oil shipments will not suffer to other countries.

Lastly, to enforce a blockade, no ship needs to be present to board and seize contraband. If a blockade is what IN has in mind for Pakistan, all the existing ports of Pakistan along its entire coastline will be bombed either by missiles, or by planes. For any kind of major imports like Oil, you will need those major terminals.
Imports of small items is still possible without these ports, but these items are not like Oil or ammo which would need proper facilities. Assuming that even if Pakistan is able to smuggle ammo and Oil, it cannot do so on a major scale, which again would be detected by IN and bombed again, this time most likely along with the offending ship.

 

[samr23]

Building a nuclear sub for paksitan is preactically impossible. Dont be crazy. This country cant manufacture 1st gen nuclear reactor. Leave minuatirising to the level of a boomer. They only have one shipyard and no shipbuilding design centre. They have never indegeniously designed and manufactured their own ship. They dont have capacity to build sub grade steel. This country wont make a boomer in next 40 yrs. Forget it Pakistanis, lets discuss something more imp.

 

[xyxmt]

Chinese Qing-class SSK​

Pakistani defence forces , specially Pakistani Navy has been quite vocal of arrival of Russian Nuclear powered submarine to Indian shore mid of this month . Pakistan Navy chief has already told US Defence Magazine that arrival of Russian Nuclear powered submarine and India’s own Indigenous development ,will have adverse effect on its operational capability in Indian ocean . and also mentioned that Pakistani navy is already working on plans to counter this latest threat put forward by Indian Navy .

Indian Defence Experts believe that Pakistan is already working on a counter plans and might just surprise Indian pretty soon in future by producing or acquiring a Nuclear powered submarine . Pakistan always has a quieter way of weapons acquisition and even managed to keep many defence project low key affair .

Rakesh Sharma Indian Defence Expert told idrw.org that “General Musharraf way back in 2006 had mentioned to a Pak daily that technology for development of a Nuclear Submarine existed in Pakistan”, but its seems help will come from its tried and tested friend china .

China has per media will be supplying 6 conventional attack submarine of Qing class , which will be equipped with a Stirling-cycle AIP system and will be able to carry up to three nuclear warhead-carrying CJ-10K LACMs each. The double-hulled Qing-class SSK, with a submerged displacement close to 3,600 tonnes, bears a close resemblance to the Russian Type 636M SSK, and features hull-retractable foreplanes and hydrodynamically streamlined sail.

Experts suggests that Pakistan’s nuclear submarine is likely to be based on the Qing Class Chinese SSK. highly advanced electric propulsion system of Qing Class Chinese SSK will able Pakistan to replace diesel engine power generation with a nuclear power plant.

Pakistan also has the expertise of submarine construction , with potential help may have been the transfer of technology from France with the Agosta 90B submarine purchase. A number of key technologies were transferred including design and development skills and tools. Building of hulls and experience with Western subsystems, many of which are used in the French nuclear submarines would help the Pakistani SSN / SSBN.

Pakistan with expertise and transfers of technology from China , will be able to field their first nuclear submarine in next 5 to 8 years and brand it “Indigenous “. But experts have difference of opinion on usage of this submarine in both forces , While Nuclear Submarine in Indian navy will complete Nuclear 2nd strike option for India , but Pakistani nuclear submarine might be built to attack prized Indian Aircraft carriers in case of conflict . India who will have 3 or more fleet of aircraft carriers in near future will always be Pakistani navies prime target , even in 1971 Indo-Pak war , Indian aircraft carrier was always a prize target for them .

http://idrw.org/?p=8896

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I think you guy's can get this in next couple of years.

unlike DRDO we are always ahead of schedule