Pakistan's new Chinese submarines will likely carry nuclear-capable CJ-10K LACMs

[Indus Falcon]

Whabout them BALLISTIC MISSILES
View attachment 347606

Will be there. 2 ~ 4 per sub

 

[Areesh]

1. PN will be getting two variants of the S-20 class submarines (NOT Qing class). They include S-26 (6) & S-30 (2).
2. ALL of these submarines will be conventionally powered. The nuclear submarine project is independent.
3. China WILL NOT export CJ-10 under ANY circumstances to Pakistan.
4. The Chinese submarines will deploy Babur SLCM, compatible with all submarines of the existing inventory.

Thanks. It indeed like that as you said. What is the difference between S26 and S30?

 

[SQ8]

1. PN will be getting two variants of the S-20 class submarines (NOT Qing class). They include S-26 (6) & S-30 (2).
2. ALL of these submarines will be conventionally powered. The nuclear submarine project is independent.
3. China WILL NOT export CJ-10 under ANY circumstances to Pakistan.
4. The Chinese submarines will deploy Babur SLCM, compatible with all submarines of the existing inventory.

3. There is actually no need to. Beyond the propulsion systems we are self sufficient in guidance and airframe.

 

[Akasa]

Most sources report Pakistan purchased a variant based on the S20 (and not exactly S20). But you should note that Pakistan can modify conventional submarines to carry nuclear-capable cruise missiles (like CJ-10K or Babur) itself.




Press Release
No PR122/2012-ISPR Dated: May 19, 2012
Islamabad - May 19, 2012:
NAVAL CHIEF INAUGURATES NAVAL STRATEGIC FORCE HEADQUARTERS

Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Mohammad Asif Sandila today inaugurated the newly constructed Headquarters of the Naval Strategic Force Command (NSFC). Lt Gen (Retd) Khalid Ahmed Kidwai Director General Strategic Plans Division and other senior ranking Naval and Military officers were also present on the occasion.

While welcoming the Chief Guest, Vice Admiral Tanveer Faiz, Commander Naval Strategic Force Command highlighted that HQ NSFC will perform a pivotal role in development and employment of the Naval Strategic Force. The Force, which is the custodian of the nation’s 2nd strike capability, will strengthen Pakistan’s policy of Credible Minimum Deterrence and ensure regional stability.





The default assumption is Pakistan had already operationalized Babur cruise missile on Agosta 90 submarines. Pakistan can do the same with Chinese submarines also (after 7-12 years when they enter service).

It's doubtful that any variant of the S20 would be able to incorporate a VLS. That would require significant redesigns to the hull itself, the diameter of which is the biggest limitation.

Pakistan would have to do with a submarine-launched variant of its Babur missile.

 

[Hamza913]

Good, now we will have nuclear triad.

 

[Penguin]

1. PN will be getting two variants of the S-20 class submarines (NOT Qing class). They include S-26 (6) & S-30 (2).
2. ALL of these submarines will be conventionally powered. The nuclear submarine project is independent.
3. China WILL NOT export CJ-10 under ANY circumstances to Pakistan.
4. The Chinese submarines will deploy Babur SLCM, compatible with all submarines of the existing inventory.

China’s S-26 submarine is believed to be an improved version of the S-20, which in turns is based on the 039A Yuan class submarine. It is the submarine China sold to Thailand.
https://chinadailymail.com/2015/07/06/thai-navy-buys-3-chinese-submarines/

This may be your S-30

 

[TeesraIndiotHunter]

3. There is actually no need to. Beyond the propulsion systems we are self sufficient in guidance and airframe.

Any effort to increase the range of Babur?

Why havent sea tests of Babur made public?

 

[Suff Shikan]

China’s S-26 submarine is believed to be an improved version of the S-20, which in turns is based on the 039A Yuan class submarine. It is the submarine China sold to Thailand.
https://chinadailymail.com/2015/07/06/thai-navy-buys-3-chinese-submarines/

This may be your S-30

Looks like Soryu Class Sub to me

 

[The SC]

The Quin class has

• two torpedo tubes (TT) in the bow, with one 650 mm TT on starboard side and one 533 mm TT on port side
• Missile: two vertical launching system tubes for submarine launched ballistic missiles in the conning tower, four VLS tubes for cruise/ASW/AShM missiles in the forward section.

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.nl/2015/04/pakistan-navys-project-s-26type-032.html

So, please explain how come, if "it has been assessed that Pakistan’s nuclear submarine is likely to be based on the Qing Class Chinese SSK (diesel-electric submarine)" why it would have only "up to three 3 CJ-10"?

https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/38o55g/the_planned_vls_system_to_be_implemented_on/

CJ-10 is shorter than YJ18, which is thought to be a Chinese equivalent of the Russian E3M-54E.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YJ-18

No Club family variant is taller than 8.9m
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M-54_Klub

The hull diameter of Type 032 Qing is 10 m, so these missiles should fit a hull mounted VLS. They don't need coning tower silo's for ballistic missiles. But why limit to 3 missiles then? Existing 032 has 4 already, and that number can easily be doubled with a hull plug.

The hull diameter of 039A is 8.4 meters, so that would rule out hullmounted VLS for these missiles, unless in the 'humped' fom we also see on SSBNs. See e.g. Russian modified AMUR 950

CJ-10 dimensions are much like those of Tomahawk, on which Babur is also based.
http://www.popsci.com/china-shows-its-deadly-new-cruise-missiles

Tomahawk can be launched from regular 533mm torpedoes.

So, to me, the limit of 3 CJ-10 missiles suggests it it torpedo tube launched. Submarines carry a limited number of torpedoes e.g. 18 in the case of a Kilo class. 3 CJ-10 plus 4 antiship missiles leaves room for some 11 torpedoes, some of which anti-surface othes anti submarine some dual capable.

And than, to me, suggests there really is no need for 032, because 039A or S-20 can do all that.

As far as we can tell, the propulsion of 032 is diesel-electric, as in all conventional subs. Even if it incorporates a Sterling AIP, that still doesn't qualify as a "Highly advanced electric propulsion system". So, I doubt Pakistan could "replace diesel engine power generation with a nuclear power plant". And if it could, then why not also on any of its subs, including the French boats. It is not bound to Type 032 then.

This is all good.. but no one really knows about the design or capabilities of the S-26 and S-30 that Pakistan is getting.. So the Above are but speculations.. one thing is for sure.. Pakistan will get nuclear submarines and its nuclear triad..

 

[Arsalan]

What is project kpc-3 ??

The original plan/project to chase the nuclear submarine ambitions.

In May 1999, the Pakistan Navy was assigned a 'nuclear role' and the 'Strategic Directorate' was constituted at the Naval Headquarters. Reportedly, the Chairman of Nuclear Planning Commission (NPC) inaugurated KPC-3, a nuclear submarine project at Peshawar in 2001. Soon thereafter, Pakistan Navy announced that it was thinking of equipping its submarines with nuclear missiles for defensive purposes and that the French origin Agosta 90B submarines with air independent propulsion (AIP) system could deliver nuclear weapons.

The one that i mentioned was put in cold storage a few years back and as confirmed by plenty of other members here as well. Work was being done on nuclear propulsion system, studies and research but it didn't materialized as we found out that there were more pressing needs. Still in process of addressing those needs. It might be back in full swing once those needs are met or may be we will start off a new project based on this. However it wont be happening soon.

 

[Gryphon]

It's doubtful that any variant of the S20 would be able to incorporate a VLS. That would require significant redesigns to the hull itself, the diameter of which is the biggest limitation.

Pakistan would have to do with a submarine-launched variant of its Babur missile.

The Press Release I posted in my last post indicates SLCM Babur already exists. The Chinese submarines will use the same method (torpedo tube launch) as Agosta 90B's. There is no question of incorporating VLS with these conventional submarines.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Says one whose country first paid homage to the Germans and then the British and then the western allies within the space of 75 years.



You lost and are now in the tailspin of that defeat. Accept your loss instead of giving selective interpretations of history and casting aspersions at others. If I start getting into the so called leadership qualities of your military leaders, there won't be an end to the debate.

Don't derail this thread
@Oscar @waz

. The Chinese submarines will deploy Babur SLCM, compatible with all submarines of the existing inventory.

what will be range of Sea launched babur

 

[Gryphon]

what will be range of Sea launched babur

Upto 500 km (with nuclear warhead). For conventional one, it will be 20-40 % more.

Range will be improved in later versions.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Upto 500 km (with nuclear warhead). For conventional one, it will be 20-40 % more.

Range will be improved in later versions.

to fire this missile sub has to go near Indian coast it will increase the chances of detection by P8i, also we can't target main cities like New Delhi,btw what is the yield of Babur's warhead??

 

[EyelessInGaza]

Don't derail this thread
@Oscar @waz[/USER.......................................

How about including that Turkish guy who started it with non-sequiturs? My last post here.