Pakistan's Missile Technology

[LCA Tejas]

I think this line is little harsh. Because most of the senior Pakistani members rubbished the claim if you see. So no need to continue this unnecessary thread. But Pakistan is doing a good job within her limitation. That is enough.

alright bro...

 

[MZUBAIR]

This post amazes me a lot....

Pakistan calls itself 3rd in terms of Missile technology?? Ok, let me get my facts corrected..

1.Does pakistan have super sonic cruise missile tech? -No-

Having or not having Supersoin missile never means that any country is less or more capable is missiles.


Accuracy, Technology & Advancement does matter

Even America dont have Supersonic cruise missile, so by ur rule USA is less capable in missile technology then China, Russia (Capable to produce Supersoin missile)

2.Does pakistan have new gen surface to air missile tech? -NO-

Yes, Pakistan have in the form of locally produce Anza Mk-III.
Anza Mk-IV is in under production.

3.Does pakistan have missiles which can be fired from under water? -NO-

Yes,
Kind, locally build torpedoes....unannounced tested in 2008/9 and fired through Augosta 90B

Agosta class submarine (Pakistan section)

4.Does pakistan have interceptor missile tech?-NO-

Having interceptor missile never means that a country is superior.
Any missile can be used as interceptor.

Though we have speciall aerial squadran to inercept missiles.

5.Does pakistan have New gen Anti Tank Missile(Fire and forget)?-NO-

Yes we have Bahtar Shikan....
Secondly, Fire and forget technology is not that accurate and successful.

6.Does pakistan have Air to air missiles tech?-NO-

Yes we do have Babur missile tested in 2009 (I am not refering Babur Cruise missile)

7.Does pakistan have hypersonic surface-to-surface tactical missile? -NO-

Even USA dont have....and its said that Pak is 3rd best in missiles.

8.Does pakistan have hypersonic cruise missile tech?-NO-

Even USA dont have....and its said that Pak is 3rd best in missiles.

And you still consider yourself as 3rd in missile technology???

Yes we are ...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sab]

Muzibair if the ranks satisfy you....well it is your...

But wait for senior Pakistani members and Military Professionals finsh their urgent works and join in....this particular post I think.... by them....

 

[LCA Tejas]

Having or not having Supersoin missile never means that any country is less or more capable is missiles.


Accuracy, Technology & Advancement does matter

Even America dont have Supersonic cruise missile, so by ur rule USA is less capable in missile technology then China, Russia (Capable to produce Supersoin missile)



Yes, Pakistan have in the form of locally produce Anza Mk-III.
Anza Mk-IV is in under production.



Yes,
Kind, locally build torpedoes....unannounced tested in 2008/9 and fired through Augosta 90B

Agosta class submarine (Pakistan section)



Having interceptor missile never means that a country is superior.
Any missile can be used as interceptor.

Though we have speciall aerial squadran to inercept missiles.




Yes we have Bahtar Shikan....
Secondly, Fire and forget technology is not that accurate and successful.




Yes we do have Babur missile tested in 2009 (I am not refering Babur Cruise missile)





Even USA dont have....and its said that Pak is 3rd best in missiles.



Even USA dont have....and its said that Pak is 3rd best in missiles.


Yes we are ...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pakistan dosent have most of it, and India has all of it... pakistan is no where in the top 10......

 

[paritosh]

Having or not having Supersoin missile never means that any country is less or more capable is missiles.


Accuracy, Technology & Advancement does matter

Even America dont have Supersonic cruise missile, so by ur rule USA is less capable in missile technology then China, Russia (Capable to produce Supersoin missile)

well i agree that it's accuracy and a low radar-evading trajectory that matters more to a cruise missile...but the point is that making a supersonic ground-hugging missile is many many times more difficult than making a normal sub-sonic cruise missile...as the increased speed needs faster on-board processors...high prf ground-mapping radars...better control sub-systems for faster maneuverability...
so in cruise missiles...we have done more R&D...and I am sure that it should affect your ranking

Yes, Pakistan have in the form of locally produce Anza Mk-III.
Anza Mk-IV is in under production.

that is a MANPAD system isn't it?
compare your MANPAD system to say Akash SAM....and you'd know that it's a joke!
the akash system is based on Ramjet technology...do you have ramjet technology?

Yes,
Kind, locally build torpedoes....unannounced tested in 2008/9 and fired through Augosta 90B

Agosta class submarine (Pakistan section)

well torpedos are for underwater warfare mainly...the guy you quoted talked about underwater launched missiles like the sagarika that we have....which you don't...
and plus I failed to read about the locally made torpedos in the link that you gave me...Exocet is not a Pakistani missile...

Having interceptor missile never means that a country is superior.
Any missile can be used as interceptor.

not a chance!
an interceptor needs to smaller...faster and helluva lot more agile than whatever it is made to intercept...
it is very very difficult to modify an existing platform into an interceptor...you don't have any interceptors or anti-BMs...or do you?

Though we have speciall aerial squadran to inercept missiles.

I am sure that they won't be pelting the incoming missile with stones and pebbles...what is that they use?

Yes we have Bahtar Shikan....
Secondly, Fire and forget technology is not that accurate and successful.

the missile that you are referring to is again not a Pakistani missile...it's the HJ-8 which happens to be a PRC missile under licensed production...
do you know what licensed production is...sir?
we license produce most of our aircraft and tanks which have russian...british..origins..doesn't mean that they are our products.
Even the SU-30MKI which has considerable Indian inputs is not our product..though we have Indian names for all our licensed produced weapon systems.

and secondly it's a wire-guided system...which almost every country has...after firing the missile in the general direction of the target...you have to manually send directional inputs to maneuver the missile so that it hits the target...not very "fire-and-forget" is it?
and let us not pass judgements about how "fire-and-forget"..."fire-and-forget" actually is...

Yes we do have Babur missile tested in 2009 (I am not refering Babur Cruise missile)

???
the missile you are talking about is the same Babur cruise missile albeit launched from an aerial platform...like most cruise missile yours can be made to launch from airplanes...
not what we want to know about...
does Pakistan have it's own air-to-air missiles?
do you have WVR and BVR missiles?

Even USA dont have....and its said that Pak is 3rd best in missiles.

only on def.pk.

Yes we are ...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

blissful isn't it?? your planet?

 

[kallol]

@Developereo

I understand you are taking a theoritical path to intercept. A few points to be noted

1. Cruise missiles are almost impossible to be hit because of their maneuvering (speed and trajectory) capability, which generally the interceptor does not have. There are hardly any example of cruise missile being intercepted even though they are subsonic.

2. The interceptor generally hit at an angle which means the margin of error is 0.004 second (in this case), which by itself is impossible to achieve. With that you have onboard sensors to detect IR, radar & optical signatures.

3. As you should know these cruise missiles operate at low height which is normally very difficult to detect from far (because of the noises and attenuations). Together with the supersonic speed, it becomes more difficult to detect and react in time as the time. We need to keep in mind that the reaction time for any missile is quite a few seconds. The distance any radar can see for low height, detect, send signal, interceptor react, correct the orientation and gain the speed will limit the effectivity of any interceptor system for cruise missile.

The problem is similar to an objective question I had in IIT entrance long back- why is the speed of a vehicle limited at night ? (The answer is the perception time of human being and the range of the headlight).
So any interceptor's capability is restricted by the perception time of the total system (detect target to set the missile in correct path and correct speed) and distance the radar can see.

Hope I could explain.

 

[Sinnerman108]

@Developereo

I understand you are taking a theoritical path to intercept. A few points to be noted

1. Cruise missiles are almost impossible to be hit because of their maneuvering (speed and trajectory) capability, which generally the interceptor does not have. There are hardly any example of cruise missile being intercepted even though they are subsonic.

2. The interceptor generally hit at an angle which means the margin of error is 0.004 second (in this case), which by itself is impossible to achieve. With that you have onboard sensors to detect IR, radar & optical signatures.

3. As you should know these cruise missiles operate at low height which is normally very difficult to detect from far (because of the noises and attenuations). Together with the supersonic speed, it becomes more difficult to detect and react in time as the time. We need to keep in mind that the reaction time for any missile is quite a few seconds. The distance any radar can see for low height, detect, send signal, interceptor react, correct the orientation and gain the speed will limit the effectivity of any interceptor system for cruise missile.

The problem is similar to an objective question I had in IIT entrance long back- why is the speed of a vehicle limited at night ? (The answer is the perception time of human being and the range of the headlight).
So any interceptor's capability is restricted by the perception time of the total system (detect target to set the missile in correct path and correct speed) and distance the radar can see.

Hope I could explain.

Hmmm,
you will understand this.
and I hope to explain my best.

You need to fire a missile from point A and hit point B, how do u find point B ?

You can use INS, GPS, or image recognition.

When the starter of the thread said the third country in the world, I suppose what he has in mind, was the third country in the world to have used the image recognition technology on cruise missiles.

I think that is a valid claim.

Satellite imagery can be acquired easily, commercial imagery is available with 30cm resolution.

The same imagery is then mapped onto a GIS system, imagery is stitched and coordinated using DGPS technique.

Thus, what I can do now is plot path marker from point A to point B, and keep an eye out for the correct path markers to know if I am on the right path.

This will also explain why the missile is called "terrain hugging", because it has to be close enough to the terrain to SEE and then process the image data.

Now comes the part of super sonic missile, sure one can make a super sonic cruise missile ( I like to see it as a customized Mig 21).

But problem arises to use the image recognition navigation technology on a super sonic missile.

Since the speed of the missile is high, a LOT of processing power is required on board the missile.

Assume, sub sonic missile needs to self correct at 10Hz only.
The processing that goes behind every correction cycle is of the order of 10 Mips.

Now you can extrapolate to what a super sonic system needs to do.

This problem is compounded by the design of Brahmos as such.
If you know, this problem is exactly same why bigger better radars can not be fitted to mig-21.

At present the processing power and remote sensing technology to support super sonic flight is not available.
There are some serious blocks regarding miniaturization and power consumption.

Who knows, the Indians might have cracked a small powerful enough processor.

But to the best of my knowledge that is far from happening.

I hope I have been able to explain my point.

 

[policecontrolroom]

our misssile tech is superior than most of the world sir

yes sirrrrrrrr. somalia , burkino faso , cook islands mosambique , moldova, dominican republic also claimed the same

 

[kallol]

@Salman108

It is getting into my area.

1. For terrain hugging hardly any image processing is required. It requires the distance only

2. For target acquisition, unlike trajectory following, it does not need to follow any defined path strictly. It is the artificial intelligence which is imperfect but achieves the goal.

3. Again image processing is not required for obstacle avoidance also (to that extent) as detection (or change ) is enough to react. Like we blink if something (unknown) comes near our eyes.

What I mean classical methods of motion control may not be followed but a more animalistic method may be followed for making it supersonic

4. The real time satellites images (the best ones as of today) cannot capture supersonic terrain hugging missiles and, considering the range and speed, any data will not be useful.

I will refrain from going into further details.

 

[Sinnerman108]

@Salman108

It is getting into my area.

1. For terrain hugging hardly any image processing is required. It requires the distance only

2. For target acquisition, unlike trajectory following, it does not need to follow any defined path strictly. It is the artificial intelligence which is imperfect but achieves the goal.

3. Again image processing is not required for obstacle avoidance also (to that extent) as detection (or change ) is enough to react. Like we blink if something (unknown) comes near our eyes.

What I mean classical methods of motion control may not be followed but a more animalistic method may be followed for making it supersonic

4. The real time satellites images (the best ones as of today) cannot capture supersonic terrain hugging missiles and, considering the range and speed, any data will not be useful.

I will refrain from going into further details.

huh !
I feel like i wasted my time,

your response shows that I failed to explain all of that, my bad.

 

[kallol]

huh !
I feel like i wasted my time,

your response shows that I failed to explain all of that, my bad.

Sorry Salman,

I might have missed out some points (not reading carefully). But much of the answers and possible capability checks can be found out in my answer. Though not stated directly.

 

[desiman]

yes sirrrrrrrr. somalia , burkino faso , cook islands mosambique , moldova, dominican republic also claimed the same

OMG I when read this comment i laughed so hard, people were looking at me at work lolzzz

 

[sab]

Mzubair should be declared as the man of the thread with the following post-

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCA Tejas
This post amazes me a lot....

Pakistan calls itself 3rd in terms of Missile technology?? Ok, let me get my facts corrected..

1.Does pakistan have super sonic cruise missile tech? -No-




Having or not having Supersoin missile never means that any country is less or more capable is missiles.


Accuracy, Technology & Advancement does matter

Even America dont have Supersonic cruise missile, so by ur rule USA is less capable in missile technology then China, Russia (Capable to produce Supersoin missile)


Quote:


Quote:
2.Does pakistan have new gen surface to air missile tech? -NO-

Yes, Pakistan have in the form of locally produce Anza Mk-III.
Anza Mk-IV is in under production.


Quote:
3.Does pakistan have missiles which can be fired from under water? -NO-


Yes,
Kind, locally build torpedoes....unannounced tested in 2008/9 and fired through Augosta 90B

Agosta class submarine (Pakistan section)


Quote:


4.Does pakistan have interceptor missile tech?-NO-


Having interceptor missile never means that a country is superior.
Any missile can be used as interceptor.Though we have speciall aerial squadran to inercept missiles.



Quote:
5.Does pakistan have New gen Anti Tank Missile(Fire and forget)?-NO-


Yes we have Bahtar Shikan....
Secondly, Fire and forget technology is not that accurate and successful.



Quote:
6.Does pakistan have Air to air missiles tech?-NO-


Yes we do have Babur missile tested in 2009 (I am not refering Babur Cruise missile)



Quote:
7.Does pakistan have hypersonic surface-to-surface tactical missile? -NO-


Even USA dont have....and its said that Pak is 3rd best in missiles.


Quote:
8.Does pakistan have hypersonic cruise missile tech?-NO-



Even USA dont have....and its said that Pak is 3rd best in missiles.

Quote:

And you still consider yourself as 3rd in missile technology???

Yes we are ...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Developereo]

Guys,

Please note the date of the original article (2007). Pakistan may have been ahead of India at the time (I don't know) but certainly India has made advances in the meantime.

I understand you are taking a theoritical path to intercept. A few points to be noted

I didn't say it was easy. I was basing my claim on the Western press which was less than impressed by the Brahmos manoeuverability and its high IR signature.

I agree it will be a challenge, especially the hypersonic version, but the military has the money to buy the best minds in the business.

 

[sab]

Sir, any information on Pakistan's initiative in air defence system.I think Gun based systems or even Anza-III which can be lethal to enemy chopper or aircrafts within reach but may not be sufficient against Modern fighters or enemy missiles......