“Pakistan’s “Kaliyug” began 5th July 1977″?

[ashley.1965]

a pile of rubbish
just by that old photo of zia in jordon and comments under it was enough to ignore the rest.

An entire industry of lies and propaganda against Zia has emerged since 1988, vilifying him, and holding him responsible for Pakistan's ill-fated decision in 2001 to join the Yankee War on/of Terror. The photo you refer to is part of the same campaign. It claims that Israel's Prime Minister stated that "We did not kill as many Palestinians in 20 years as Zia-ul-Haq killed in 11 days".

There are two lies in that statement.

1. Moshe Dayan, who made the comment was not Israel's Prime Minister, but its Defense Minister. Golda Meir was the Prime Minister at that time.

2. Dayan's comment about King Hussein killing more Palestinians than Israel was reported in 1970, but he did not mention Zia in his statement. That bit is the disinformation part, and one of the earliest references to this can be found in the writings of one Lal Khan, a known Marxist (see here). A bit of research shows that virtually all of the online material that goes out of its way to include Zia in that Moshe Dayan quote is authored by people who are either ignorant or wish to promote a certain agenda.

The article by former ambassador Tayyab Siddiqui reiterates this. The following quotes are particularly noteworthy:

1. "Our ambassador in Delhi had cautioned us against the surreptitious induction of Indian army officers belonging to RAW in PLO and PFLP ranks. Their assignment was to sow doubts and misgivings regarding Pakistan among Palestinians." In other words, India has been playing divide-and-rule between Pakistan and the Arabs since at least 1970.

2. "Brig Zia accordingly took over the command in Irbid, but before any major military operation could be taken the Syrians, under intense pressure from the US and Israel, withdrew. This was the sum total of Pakistan’s involvement or Zia’s role in the alleged massacre of the Palestinians. It is generally believed that Zia had been instrumental in the killing of thousands of Palestinians and that Arafat had vowed never to trust Pakistan or forgive Zia. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Arafat visited Pakistan three times during Zia’s regime and met him at summits of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference and the Non-aligned Movement. During my assignment in Cairo as Pakistan’s ambassador (1997-1999), I had quite a few occasions to meet Arafat during Arab League meetings and found no bitterness in him about Zia’s alleged role as “Butcher of Palestinians."

Far from reality Gen. Zia than Brigadier acted on Kings request without seeking permission from anyone.

Your anti-Zia obsession is well-known. Way back in 2012, you had the opportunity to read the ambassador's account on another forum, as well as that of someone else who was in Pakistan's armed forces at that time, and knew Zia (see the comments by Youboy and Saq here). But you have continued to use his alleged role in Jordan as a big stick against him and we can be sure that after a few weeks or months you will post that old photo of Zia in Jordan once more.

Not seeking permission from anyone, you say? The article states clearly that:

"Zia told the king that he would need political clearance from the embassy before he responded to the request. I told Zia that the contingent’s mandate was not to fight, and hence I would need permission from Islamabad.

Telephone connections were dead. There were no cipher links either. The only communication link was telex based on Morse code. After a few hours’ effort, I established contact with Foreign Secretary Sultan Mohammad Khan, who declined to give any instructions and advised me to contact the military brass. Finally, I reached Mr Ghiasuddin, then Secretary General, Defence. To my utter horror, without a moment’s hesitance, Ghias gave me the green signal"

But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your prejudices.

 

[war&peace]

Yeah agreed but he thinks he is the only one who can lead, same thinking and attitude present in I.K....you want civilian dictator and wants to make Pakistan a banana republic...vote for I.K.

That's really funny..especially when we live in the era of civilian cults like PMLn, Zardari party, and Molpi Diesel and you are blaming the only true democratic party. PTI is the most democratic party in Pakistan and some of the issues we see with PTI are because of that democracy, rather many times I felt it is too much democracy and IK should exert more control over the party. If IK was such a dictator, he would have intervened a lot in KPK. Furthermore, if you are looking for angels then you will always be disappointed.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I'm in the process of learning at least about a few subjects and my posts two years ago are drastically different than todays..it may change even further as I learn more.

If you follow Kaptaan, Oscar and Niaz Sahib, there is nothing but the pleasure of learning from mature and wise minds, and only good things are ahead for you. These are three deep thinkers - Kaptaan is not very popular, and I was shocked to see some critical posts about Oscar and Niaz Sahib - and I wish so much that they were Indian. But they are Pakistanis, and you are to be envied. They are your treasures on PDF, along with some other masters of these matters, fatman17, for instance, who illuminates every subject, and Zarvan, whose socio-political views set my teeth on edge, but whose knowledge of military systems is next to only Rashid Mahmood and Khafee.

Disclaimer: I do not necessarily agree with Kaptaan, it is his impeccable logic and analysis that fascinates me; I do not always agree with Oscar, but his inversion of a subject and showing it in a stunningly different way keeps my mind on the edge of its chair, as it were. Niaz Sahib is not to be questioned, simply followed with deep attention. I do not want to embarrass them, so I am not tagging them.

 

[SQ8]

Destruction of Jinnah’s Pakistan began with Ayub Khan and Zia drove the final nail through it.

The only connection this Pakistan has with MA Jinnah is using his smiling face on their currency for corruption riddled transactions, his birth& death for holidays and his mausoleum for love making sessions.

 

[Maarkhoor]

PTI is the most democratic party in Pakistan

Bhai don't take it personal but PTI is a C company ...what you have said democratic party? where this democratic thing went when court dismissed Jahangeer Tareen but I.K allows his son to take his place.....just like any other corrupt person.


You know why? Jahangeer Tareen is considered by I.K as ATM.

 

[Kabira]

After Jinnah Zia was the best we ever had May God Bless him

Only good thing Zia did, develop Nuclear weapons to shut much bigger enemy once for all.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

zia corrupted Pakistan. decent human values like waiting in line, telling the truth, cleaning up after yourself, taking responsibility of your actions are in many cases rare. once the people themselves become corrupted then everything else is pointless, you can make as many highways and metros as you want. he's the one that propped up Nawaz Sharif. he tried to show how islamic he was and tried pleasing the mullahs but at the same time allowed the deterioration of society and it's basic human values.

its obvious today the army is trying to reverse everything that has happened COAS speaking at college campuses and just recently CJS speaking at a seminar about Pakistaniat.

 

[ashley.1965]

zia corrupted Pakistan. decent human values like waiting in line, telling the truth, cleaning up after yourself, taking responsibility of your actions are in many cases rare ... allowed the deterioration of society and it's basic human values.

Zia murdered Palestinians. Zia, and not the American/Indian alliance in occupied Afghanistan, is responsible for terrorism emanating from that country. Zia destroyed what was left of Jinnah's Pakistan.

And now we learn that Zia is also responsible for corruption, people not waiting in line, telling lies and not cleaning up after themselves. Basic human qualities that were universal in Pakistan before the Zia era.

I take it you have references from some peer-reviewed social science or political journals to back up that claim. Please post the links here so that we may all enlighten ourselves accordingly. Thank you.

he's the one that propped up Nawaz Sharif.

Nawaz Sharif began his political career in 1976 when he joined the PML. That was a full year before Zia even took power. He was driven to politics in an attempt to wrest control back of his steel mill that had been nationalized by Bhutto. He worked assiduously to ingratiate himself with Zia until the latter agreed to return the steel mill. Sharif became Prime Minister for the first time in 1990, a full two years after Zia's assassination. (See political history of Nawaz Sharif here).

The only logical conclusion, surely, is that Zia is also responsible for the curse that is Nawaz Sharif.