Pakistan’s Japanese-dominated car market set to attract Europe and Korea

[Path-Finder]

Indeed Pakistanis are deprived of choices when it comes to cars, the only choice would be pay so much money for pathetic locally assembled dust bins or pay hefty amounts on Japanese imports, which are not that great to begin with. I am not particularly fan of VW because of my past experience but if VW enters Pakistani market, that might pave the way for others to follow, so lets hope.



I am not too sure about the Indian Cars, but I can attest for Indian bikes. I owned several bikes and one of them was KTM 390, all made in India but of course the design was by KTM Austria. I had no issues with the build quality, and India riders have far more options when compared to Pakistan, where we are still using 30 years old Honda 125 CGI or Yamaha 100 from adam and eves time.
Bajaj have really turned the Indian market on its head, although I like cruisers and Royal enfield is getting too old. Oh sorry the thread was about cars lol.




Fiat is a toilet on wheels, period. But I am quite a fan of Renault Cleo, it is one of the best hatch backs available. Unlike Peugeot which if you happen to visit their showroom, they will spend more time telling you whats the right way to pronounce the name instead of trying to sell you a car. True story.

I am sorry but Italians are in a league of their own, Italians had never been known for reliability, regardless of which ever brand, be it Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, or Alfas. But what they had been known for are a unique driving characteristics and having a certain personality to them. 15 years ago you wouldn't buy Italian cars expecting reliability but what you pay for is a part of automotive heritage and class.

Fords are not reliable, not to mention most are really badly designed and constructed vehicles, the only ford that is any good is Focus, the rest are ugly, soul less guzzlers.




LOL, again you don't buy Italian cars for reliability. And you don't buy French cars at all of course unless its Cleo.




Yeah yeah, get over yourself.


Exactly, its a Korean car with detuned G-class engine and transmission, if my memory serves me correct.




Why only in Pakistan? Even in Japan people prefer smaller capacity engines. Not just because of the low cost of maintenance and running but also because of the tax structures in place. Besides American cars are too big even for themselves.




LOL, I think that statement sums up whole modern American car experience.



I bought a VW Golf GTi, and those were the most painful few months of my life. With in course of 7 months pretty much everything in the car was replaced, from transmission to god damn wipers, clutch by far was the worst offender. That car spent more time with VW than me driving it. I learned my experience and will never buy a VW again, in hot environment most of their cars keeps on breaking down. The only VW which is suited best for Pakistan would be Polo Sedan, that car has a better build quality along with a good track record.
A 4-cylinder car can never put a V6 or above to shame, unless the driver doesn't know what the heck he is doing.
Passat would be a nice edition, if launched.



My favuroties are Camero's in particular the 1966 SS is by far my favourite car of all time, but unfortunately pony cars can only go fast in a straight line, cornering on them feels like you're riding atop a drunken donkey.




VW had been loosing sales steam in US, this was one of the reasons why Ferdinand Piech was forced to step down from CEO position at VW. Further more, BMW and Mercedes are what we call as a premium brands, they can not be compared with main stream brands such as Toyota, Nissan or VW. Although VW is a huge group which pretty much owns most of the european premium car manufacturer, and Lexus and Infiniti are by Japanese, but they are a different class.




I would consider you lucky, mine GTi had all kinds of issues from non working wipers to car refusing to go into reverse, it was the worst car experience of my life. I switched to BMW E60, 3.0 litres and it was the best decision of my life. I couldn't find a good E60 M5, otherwise that would have been great but no complaints.



Here is a fun tip, just visit VW Malaysias Facebook page, you shall find out about the horrendous owner experience and pathetic customer service. Try it.



These dalda tins should be melted to make spittoons.

You said your self toilet on wheels. My theory is if a car has to spend more time being fixed than "unique driving characteristics and having a certain personality to them." goes out of the window. if it is that good than it should be carrying you about rather than visiting the garage all the time. Hell one of my friends his fiat engine seized on the motorway and it fell through at 70mph. the car was moving forward with the engine making a grove on the road suraface!

VW seems to be absolutely shite outside of Europe. At the end of the day regardless of which ever car you have you are going to have trouble with them some more than others and maintaning them is the only way to keep them operational.

 

[Icewolf]

This is TATA Bolt hatchback with price tag of 4.44 lac to 6.06 lac INR (7.08 lac to 9.6 lac PKR) with warranty of 3 years and 75000 kms (whichever is earlier).

These cases of simply loot.

Lol don't show these shitty Indian cars. Even Indians don't drive indian cars. You except Pakistanis too?

I mean they look modern but probably 1000 miles later they'll break down

 

[macnurv]

You probably bought a used GTI. My friend had a GTI for a long time and never faced any problem. What if I tell you I got many problems from a Nissan Maxima.it depends on the car.
Another things yes 4 cylinder turbo can smoke V6 if you don't know , so please increase your knowledge. VW 2.0 turbo can beat V6. There is a reason behind that turbo.Audi 2.0 turbo AWD will beat V6. Now let's talk about some serious 4 cylinder turbo Subaru STI AWD and Mitsubishi Evo AWD will smoke a V6 anyday anytime. They are too fast . The only way V6 can compete with these if they are tuned or got turbo. Like the Audi S4 AWD. Any car that has a turbo and AWD is always super fast. Check out some videos on YouTube even I was surprised.

When I was talking about a four cylinder vs V6, I was talking stock. Any kind of modification, and form of forced compression will put out more horses down. Your own comparison is flawed, you're comparing a stock V6 with a Turbo charged 4 cylinder, there cant be any. Turbos have their own limitations, but I do agree with AWD's, they are indeed quick off the line.
One more thing is putting turbos on smaller engines because of high revs and produce more power, but because of the forced induction via a smaller hole you also loose power, also some better fuel economy thing as well. Now if you put any form of force induction on a V6 and above, that thing will smoke anything.
Again it comes to ones personal choice and circumstances, but stock to stock, 4 cylinder is no way close to bigger engines. I As I couldnt find a better E60 M5, the best alternate was to get a 3 Liter engine, as it is the best engine for forced induction.

My GTi was brand new, and one of the problems I was aware of was related to clutch, in particular to the tropical countries. But other issues, were really something I couldn't understand. Over all I was disappointed with VW, and decided not to purchase anymore of their cars.

You said your self toilet on wheels. My theory is if a car has to spend more time being fixed than "unique driving characteristics and having a certain personality to them." goes out of the window. if it is that good than it should be carrying you about rather than visiting the garage all the time. Hell one of my friends his fiat engine seized on the motorway and it fell through at 70mph. the car was moving forward with the engine making a grove on the road suraface!

Fair point, but here is the thing. When you buy an Italian car, you don't expect that you're buying a family sedan. You exactly know what you're getting. If you want reliability and low running costs Japanese cars are the best. As for Fiat, it is the worst of the lot.

VW seems to be absolutely shite outside of Europe. At the end of the day regardless of which ever car you have you are going to have trouble with them some more than others and maintaning them is the only way to keep them operational.

From my personal experience, I wont buy a VW again, it was a huge pain in a$$.[/QUOTE]

 

[Globaltracker81]

Lol don't show these shitty Indian cars. Even Indians don't drive indian cars. You except Pakistanis too?

I mean they look modern but probably 1000 miles later they'll break down

Actually these are newly launched models from TATA motors and many looked at it sceptical as TATA didn't had much success in hatchback cars for personal use. But these models have surprisingly good drive and interiors are made from more high quality stuff. These things are coming loaded with features which are being seen in all competitors.

So ya TATA are definitely looking to turn around. By end of next year they are planning to release new models built on entirely new chasi. All the technical knowhow they are attracting are seeming to help to turn new corner.

I am not too sure about the Indian Cars, but I can attest for Indian bikes. I owned several bikes and one of them was KTM 390, all made in India but of course the design was by KTM Austria. I had no issues with the build quality, and India riders have far more options when compared to Pakistan, where we are still using 30 years old Honda 125 CGI or Yamaha 100 from adam and eves time.
Bajaj have really turned the Indian market on its head, although I like cruisers and Royal enfield is getting too old. Oh sorry the thread was about cars lol.

KTM is owned by Bajaj group but they didn't merge with the parent group. They cleared all the loans of KTM and started to expose them in all the countries they have presence and also use Bajaj factories for manufacturing . This is also one of the brain child of Rahul Bajaj.
Royal Enfield has become a cult bike for all the bike loving riders. The quality, standard and serviceability has increased exponentially in last 5 years. Actually you will see 8 - 12 months waiting period for getting one of these bikes. It doesn't cost less anything between 160K to 420K rupees.

 

[Path-Finder]

When I was talking about a four cylinder vs V6, I was talking stock. Any kind of modification, and form of forced compression will put out more horses down. Your own comparison is flawed, you're comparing a stock V6 with a Turbo charged 4 cylinder, there cant be any. Turbos have their own limitations, but I do agree with AWD's, they are indeed quick off the line.
One more thing is putting turbos on smaller engines because of high revs and produce more power, but because of the forced induction via a smaller hole you also loose power, also some better fuel economy thing as well. Now if you put any form of force induction on a V6 and above, that thing will smoke anything.
Again it comes to ones personal choice and circumstances, but stock to stock, 4 cylinder is no way close to bigger engines. I As I couldnt find a better E60 M5, the best alternate was to get a 3 Liter engine, as it is the best engine for forced induction.

My GTi was brand new, and one of the problems I was aware of was related to clutch, in particular to the tropical countries. But other issues, were really something I couldn't understand. Over all I was disappointed with VW, and decided not to purchase anymore of their cars.




Fair point, but here is the thing. When you buy an Italian car, you don't expect that you're buying a family sedan. You exactly know what you're getting. If you want reliability and low running costs Japanese cars are the best. As for Fiat, it is the worst of the lot.


From my personal experience, I wont buy a VW again, it was a huge pain in a$$.

[/QUOTE]

Hence outside Italy and now even in Italy Fiat/Alfa are being overtaken. flair passion handling would be least considered if the car is on a date with the mechanics all the time.

 

[macnurv]

KTM is owned by Bajaj group but they didn't merge with the parent group. They cleared all the loans of KTM and started to expose them in all the countries they have presence and also use Bajaj factories for manufacturing . This is also one of the brain child of Rahul Bajaj.
Royal Enfield has become a cult bike for all the bike loving riders. The quality, standard and serviceability has increased exponentially in last 5 years. Actually you will see 8 - 12 months waiting period for getting one of these bikes. It doesn't cost less anything between 160K to 420K rupees.

Bajaj owns 47% stake in the company, the other 53% by Cross Industries, but that is beyond the point. Indian bikers have far more options available to them, and the credit for this can be given to Bajaj, in particular Pulsar. As for Enfiled, yes it is a machine with cult following. I feel that they are bit dated, but lets hope Enfiled decides to update it.


Hence outside Italy and now even in Italy Fiat/Alfa are being overtaken. flair passion handling would be least considered if the car is on a date with the mechanics all the time.[/QUOTE]

Again, for family cars class stay away from Italian.

 

[Manindra]

Lol don't show these shitty Indian cars. Even Indians don't drive indian cars. You except Pakistanis too?

I mean they look modern but probably 1000 miles later they'll break down

Still their production line is running 24X7

There are a couple of car manufacturers coming to Pakistan. The second they increase their output by 20,000 more cars, the prices will be reduced by 15-20%. The two - three companies who produced in Pakistan have the monopoly ad they create an artificial shortage to further raise prices by 100,000 or more for a "quick delivery".

Until Govt. of Pakistan or local player don't intervene I don't think so.
Even in India, Toyota, Mitsubishi etc. put their retired models which got failed due to local players heavy investment.

Well the cars purchased during Zardari era had hideous amount of taxes it is only recently that there has been reduction in import taxes (registration taxes are unmoved). An example of the amount of taxes put on cars:
A Mercedes C-Class costs around 38000$ in Pakistan after just the import tax it's around 76 lakhs PKR. As of 2015.

Main culprit are used car import as they shrink demand of new cars.

 

[Globaltracker81]

Bajaj owns 47% stake in the company, the other 53% by Cross Industries, but that is beyond the point. Indian bikers have far more options available to them, and the credit for this can be given to Bajaj, in particular Pulsar. As for Enfiled, yes it is a machine with cult following. I feel that they are bit dated, but lets hope Enfiled decides to update it.

Yes you are right I have just entered 30 and I envy current college goers for the choices of bikes they have these days.
The exterior they are wanting to keeping it classic but they have updated the actual heart of the bike and comfort level of the bike to current standards.

 

[Ahmed_Vohra]

It is shocking that car companies such as VW, Toyota & Honda that are renowned for their quality and reliability in Europe; are selling sub-standard crap for the same amount or more everywhere else in the world including US.

 

[macnurv]

Yes you are right I have just entered 30 and I envy current college goers for the choices of bikes they have these days.
The exterior they are wanting to keeping it classic but they have updated the actual heart of the bike and comfort level of the bike to current standards.

Benelli, KTM, Kawasaki, BMW, Honda, Triumph, Ducati some Yamaha, spoiled for choices.

 

[Manindra]

Bajaj owns 47% stake in the company, the other 53% by Cross Industries, but that is beyond the point. Indian bikers have far more options available to them, and the credit for this can be given to Bajaj, in particular Pulsar. As for Enfiled, yes it is a machine with cult following. I feel that they are bit dated, but lets hope Enfiled decides to update it.



Hence outside Italy and now even in Italy Fiat/Alfa are being overtaken. flair passion handling would be least considered if the car is on a date with the mechanics all the time.

Again, for family cars class stay away from Italian.

It was not Bajaj, its Hero (then Hero Honda) changed the tide of Indian bike market with CBZ but Bajaj take it with new high with Pulsar.
Royal enfield is fully updated as they discard their 1940s iron cast engine with Aluminium UCE engine, new chassis, ABS, Disk brake, nitrus suspension, new gearbox.
Currently they offer 350cc & 500cc engine now they are developing 750cc engine.
Thier build quality also drastically improved after takeover by Eicher Motors.

 

[nForce]

This is exhibition car... most likely designed by some Italian designer, but this is not under production.

Any Pakistani business man can make contract with Mercedes for Engines and import assembly unit and there you go, 10 times better than what any bharti can ever dream.

That's a Mahindra XUV 500 dude, quite popular choice in India in the SUV segment. I have booked one, yet to get delivery.

 

[mkg00179504]

When I was talking about a four cylinder vs V6, I was talking stock. Any kind of modification, and form of forced compression will put out more horses down. Your own comparison is flawed, you're comparing a stock V6 with a Turbo charged 4 cylinder, there cant be any. Turbos have their own limitations, but I do agree with AWD's, they are indeed quick off the line.
One more thing is putting turbos on smaller engines because of high revs and produce more power, but because of the forced induction via a smaller hole you also loose power, also some better fuel economy thing as well. Now if you put any form of force induction on a V6 and above, that thing will smoke anything.
Again it comes to ones personal choice and circumstances, but stock to stock, 4 cylinder is no way close to bigger engines. I As I couldnt find a better E60 M5, the best alternate was to get a 3 Liter engine, as it is the best engine for forced induction.

My GTi was brand new, and one of the problems I was aware of was related to clutch, in particular to the tropical countries. But other issues, were really something I couldn't understand. Over all I was disappointed with VW, and decided not to purchase anymore of their cars.




Fair point, but here is the thing. When you buy an Italian car, you don't expect that you're buying a family sedan. You exactly know what you're getting. If you want reliability and low running costs Japanese cars are the best. As for Fiat, it is the worst of the lot.


From my personal experience, I wont buy a VW again, it was a huge pain in a$$.

[/QUOTE]
Stock V6 will be more powerfull, when I was comparing V6 Honda or Toyota I was comparing it to a 2.0 turbo. Some car makers don't give you V 6 options for more power they offer you the turbo engine. Like the Hyundai Sonata 2.0 turbo. It does not offer a V6 am not sure if it do now in new ones but what I remember they offer you a turbo engine and that is how they compete with V6 engines.
It can be personal choice but I really like VW cars they make other higher end cars as well and their AWD system is the best. I am a
Big fan of their engines from basic VW to Porsche and other expensive cars. I drove my cousin Porsche 911 twin turbo. God I can't tell you how good that was and the way the car went on a complete blasttttt. But with good feeling there is a good price and that thing is way too expensive to maintain.
I see VW the only other foreign car to compete with Toyota , Honda in Pakistan. Other European cars are too expensive to buy and to maintain .

 

[macnurv]

Stock V6 will be more powerfull, when I was comparing V6 Honda or Toyota I was comparing it to a 2.0 turbo. Some car makers don't give you V 6 options for more power they offer you the turbo engine. Like the Hyundai Sonata 2.0 turbo. It does not offer a V6 am not sure if it do now in new ones but what I remember they offer you a turbo engine and that is how they compete with V6 engines.

Another important thing which I overlooked but remembered now are the Korean cars. Over the recent years, Korean cars had been making significant market gains, and it seems their quality have also improved. The previous experiment of Korean cars failed but this time if they decide to enter there will be some market for them as Pakistanis are really deprived of choices. I have never driven a Hyundai Sonata but it was targeted to be a luxury saloon, previous builds had quality issues but from what I read things had been improving.

It can be personal choice but I really like VW cars they make other higher end cars as well and their AWD system is the best. I am a
Big fan of their engines from basic VW to Porsche and other expensive cars. I drove my cousin Porsche 911 twin turbo. God I can't tell you how good that was and the way the car went on a complete blasttttt. But with good feeling there is a good price and that thing is way too expensive to maintain.
I see VW the only other foreign car to compete with Toyota , Honda in Pakistan. Other European cars are too expensive to buy and to maintain .

For me a car is all about a personal choice, if I can afford it and its available I will buy it. VW as a brand holds great prestige, and 911 is one of the best cars I had driven. And when I hear people saying it is the only supercar you can live with on day to day basis, they are 100% right. The only Porsche worth buying is 911, this does not mean that they are bad, just they are not that great.

For Pakistani market, we have to wait which models they decide to launch, Polo Sedan, Passat would be there for sure. Golf may be in limited numbers.

 

[Globaltracker81]

It was not Bajaj, its Hero (then Hero Honda) changed the tide of Indian bike market with CBZ but Bajaj take it with new high with Pulsar.
Royal enfield is fully updated as they discard their 1940s iron cast engine with Aluminium UCE engine, new chassis, ABS, Disk brake, nitrus suspension, new gearbox.
Currently they offer 350cc & 500cc engine now they are developing 750cc engine.
Thier build quality also drastically improved after takeover by Eicher Motors.

What a beauty