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Pakistan's ISI problem

desiman

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Pakistan's ISI problem

PAKISTAN has a terrorist problem, as many of the country's leaders acknowledge. But Pakistan also has an ISI problem - the country's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence agency pursues its own agenda for its own reasons. And civilian leaders there have been too hesitant to challenge it.

India's foreign secretary asserted last week that the Pakistani military intelligence agency was behind November's terrorist atrocities in Mumbai. "The perpetrators planned, trained, and launched their attacks from Pakistan," Shivsankar Menon said in a Paris speech, "and the organizers were and remain clients and creations of the ISI." Regardless of its motives, India is raising a question that Pakistan must address.

The ISI operates under its own definition of Pakistan's national interest - and has shown a particular obsession with India. The agency has a history of incubating extremists, such as the Lashkar-e-Taiba gang that India accuses of murdering 164 innocent people in Mumbai. It would be best for Pakistan's relations with its neighbors and for its own internal stability if ISI gets out of the business of using fanaticized jihadists - whether Lashkar-e-Taiba or the Afghan Taliban - to advance the military's strategic aims.

Pakistani officials have dropped hints that their own investigation will show that the Mumbai plot was hatched in Bangladesh and had Indian co-conspirators. But India has given Pakistan and the United States considerable material evidence, including intercepted phone calls and forensic DNA matching the terrorists to a boat that left from Pakistan. So any Pakistani campaign to deflect or diffuse blame is likely to make Pakistani authorities look even more irresponsible than they do now.

Over the years, the ISI has received plenty of outside help. In the 1980s, the CIA cooperated with the ISI and Saudi intelligence in funding, training, and arming Afghan and foreign guerrillas to fight the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. This proxy war was initiated by former President Jimmy Carter and expanded under Ronald Reagan. It succeeded in driving the Red Army out of Afghanistan. But it also drew in violent Islamists from many countries who coalesced in terrorist networks, the most notorious of which became Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda.

In the mid-1990s, the ISI sponsored the Taliban. The aim was to have an allied force in control of Afghanistan, to prevent India from extending its influence there, and to provide the ISI with training camps outside Pakistan for groups conducting operations in Indian-ruled Kashmir. Today, some of those terrorist groups are turning their fury against the established order in Pakistan.

Apart from India's public attempts to hold the ISI guilty for the Mumbai crimes, Pakistan needs to recognize its own interest in remolding and redirecting the agency, so it can extinguish a terrorist fire that may otherwise consume Pakistan itself.

Pakistan's ISI problem - The Boston Globe
 
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Pakistan's ISI problem

PAKISTAN has a terrorist problem, as many of the country's leaders acknowledge. But Pakistan also has an ISI problem - the country's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence agency pursues its own agenda for its own reasons. And civilian leaders there have been too hesitant to challenge it.

India's foreign secretary asserted last week that the Pakistani military intelligence agency was behind November's terrorist atrocities in Mumbai. "The perpetrators planned, trained, and launched their attacks from Pakistan," Shivsankar Menon said in a Paris speech, "and the organizers were and remain clients and creations of the ISI." Regardless of its motives, India is raising a question that Pakistan must address.

The ISI operates under its own definition of Pakistan's national interest - and has shown a particular obsession with India. The agency has a history of incubating extremists, such as the Lashkar-e-Taiba gang that India accuses of murdering 164 innocent people in Mumbai. It would be best for Pakistan's relations with its neighbors and for its own internal stability if ISI gets out of the business of using fanaticized jihadists - whether Lashkar-e-Taiba or the Afghan Taliban - to advance the military's strategic aims.

Pakistani officials have dropped hints that their own investigation will show that the Mumbai plot was hatched in Bangladesh and had Indian co-conspirators. But India has given Pakistan and the United States considerable material evidence, including intercepted phone calls and forensic DNA matching the terrorists to a boat that left from Pakistan. So any Pakistani campaign to deflect or diffuse blame is likely to make Pakistani authorities look even more irresponsible than they do now.

Over the years, the ISI has received plenty of outside help. In the 1980s, the CIA cooperated with the ISI and Saudi intelligence in funding, training, and arming Afghan and foreign guerrillas to fight the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. This proxy war was initiated by former President Jimmy Carter and expanded under Ronald Reagan. It succeeded in driving the Red Army out of Afghanistan. But it also drew in violent Islamists from many countries who coalesced in terrorist networks, the most notorious of which became Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda.

In the mid-1990s, the ISI sponsored the Taliban. The aim was to have an allied force in control of Afghanistan, to prevent India from extending its influence there, and to provide the ISI with training camps outside Pakistan for groups conducting operations in Indian-ruled Kashmir. Today, some of those terrorist groups are turning their fury against the established order in Pakistan.

Apart from India's public attempts to hold the ISI guilty for the Mumbai crimes, Pakistan needs to recognize its own interest in remolding and redirecting the agency, so it can extinguish a terrorist fire that may otherwise consume Pakistan itself.

Pakistan's ISI problem - The Boston Globe


With 500+ posts, i thought you was one of the few serious indians on here willing to have meaningful discussions. However, after reading a couple of your posts today, it seems like you are no different to most other indians on here!

Seriously, what is this obsession you guys seem to have with trying to diss our ISI in every second thread!? I have read countless number of posts on this forum by you guys tryng to diss our ISI and accusing them of anything and everything. It seems to me there isnt much difference between the indian government and the indian public from my observation!
Is it just a case of jealousy because you know we have one of the best intelligence agency in the world and you can not digest that???!

We have governments from east to west of our borders who are trying to interfere and destabalise our country under the BS War on Terror excuse. The army/ISI are one of the few good things we have in pakistan at the moment as our civilian government is , and has been, virtually useless for decades now IMHO!

So, just accept the fact that despite the lack of resources and money, we still have one of the best Intelligence Agencies in the world who have been and will continue to do what they are best at - to put pakistan first!! You can try and fool your own countrymen with your BS but we will never buy into it because our army/ISI will always have the backing of the pakistani people, which is what matters in the end!!
 
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With 500+ posts, i thought you was one of the few serious indians on here willing to have meaningful discussions. However, after reading a couple of your posts today, it seems like you are no different to most other indians on here!

Seriously, what is this obsession you guys seem to have with trying to diss our ISI in every second thread!? I have read countless number of posts on this forum by you guys tryng to diss our ISI and accusing them of anything and everything. It seems to me there isnt much difference between the indian government and the indian public from my observation!
Is it just a case of jealousy because you know we have one of the best intelligence agency in the world and you can not digest that???!

We have governments from east to west of our borders who are trying to interfere and destabalise our country under the BS War on Terror excuse. The army/ISI are one of the few good things we have in pakistan at the moment as our civilian government is , and has been, virtually useless for decades now IMHO!

So, just accept the fact that despite the lack of resources and money, we still have one of the best Intelligence Agencies in the world who have been and will continue to do what they are best at - to put pakistan first!! You can try and fool your own countrymen with your BS but we will never buy into it because our army/ISI will always have the backing of the pakistani people, which is what matters in the end!!

You are quite wrong brother, i mean to indulge in meaningful argument but it seems many people here are not. I read this article in the Boston globe and thought it was interesting and people would like to know what the west is thinking about the ISI. Its not a flame article or a troll, its from a very reputable newspaper and talks quite sensibly. I have never doubted the ISI's capabilities so please dont accuse me of that. I am here to give my point of view and pos articles that are meaningful, if people get offended over the smallest things there is nothing i can do. There are enough articles here on RAW but i have never said anything like this to anyone because everyone has a right to their own opinion and to express it in a proper manner.
 
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Pigeon held in India on suspicion of spying for Pakistan

Indian police are holding a pigeon under armed guard after it was caught on an alleged spying mission for arch rivals and neighbours Pakistan, according to reports in local media.

4:33PM BST 28 May 2010

The white-coloured bird was found by a local resident in India's Punjab state, which borders Pakistan, and taken to a police station 25 miles from the capital Amritsar.

The pigeon had a ring around its foot and a Pakistani telephone number and address stamped on its body in red ink.

Ramdas Jagjit Singh Chahal, a police officer, said he suspected that the pigeon had landed on Indian soil from Pakistan with a message, although no trace of a note has been found.

Officials have directed that no-one be allowed to visit the pigeon, which police say may have been on a "special mission of spying".

The bird has been medically examined and was being kept in an air-conditioned room under police guard.

Senior officers have asked to be kept updated on the situation three times a day, according to a report from the Press Trust of India (PTI) news agency.

Mr Chahal said local pigeon fanciers in the sensitive border area had told police that Pakistani pigeons were easily identifiable as they look different from Indian ones, according to the Indian Express newspaper.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ndia-on-suspicion-of-spying-for-Pakistan.html
 
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With corrupt Pakistani leaders it is necessary to have entities like ISI so that the corrupt leaders can be checked if they try to sell the national interests.
 
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With corrupt Pakistani leaders it is necessary to have entities like ISI so that the corrupt leaders can be checked if they try to sell the national interests.

^^^Presupposed premise that officials in the ISI are incorruptible.
 
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im against isi because i think when isi knew americans are making suicide blasts, and agents like raymond davis are on the loose, and that americans are tagetting innocents through drone strikes, still isi collaborated with cia which is like collaboratin and nurturing a snake in their home..

thats why i dont like isi in some ways...

now as a guy said we need isi danda on political leaders, but isi cant remove zerdari, isi removed nawaz for musharraf but isi cant remove zardari ghunda... isi knows invading fata and killing the pakistanis should not have been done by army but isi didnt helped army prevent attacking those areas intelligent isi knew this but now, now entire pakistan is destabilized and we still consider isi as a good and vital organization...
 
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And then you say Ajmal Shahzad was an ISI agent?
OMG! Does ISI now send trained cricketers as an under cover agent!?
 
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Pakistan's ISI problem

PAKISTAN has a terrorist problem, as many of the country's leaders acknowledge. But Pakistan also has an ISI problem - the country's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence agency pursues its own agenda for its own reasons. And civilian leaders there have been too hesitant to challenge it.

Name one Intelligence organization which "haven't got it's own agenda for it's own reasons".
Civilian leadership is not hesitant collaboration is at every step but ISI doesn't follow them now as it used to be when the political wing was open.And there is no interference.

India's foreign secretary asserted last week that the Pakistani military intelligence agency was behind November's terrorist atrocities in Mumbai. "The perpetrators planned, trained, and launched their attacks from Pakistan," Shivsankar Menon said in a Paris speech, "and the organizers were and remain clients and creations of the ISI." Regardless of its motives, India is raising a question that Pakistan must address.

What if i say Indian administration and politicians are hesitant to challenge and scrutinize the stuff that R.A.W. feeds them.It's a known rivalry so no need to explain.


The ISI operates under its own definition of Pakistan's national interest - and has shown a particular obsession with India. The agency has a history of incubating extremists, such as the Lashkar-e-Taiba gang that India accuses of murdering 164 innocent people in Mumbai. It would be best for Pakistan's relations with its neighbors and for its own internal stability if ISI gets out of the business of using fanaticized jihadists - whether Lashkar-e-Taiba or the Afghan Taliban - to advance the military's strategic aims.

India is herself responsible for this ,talking of two way war strategy,cold start and what not,and demanding the other party to which India has fought wars to turn a deaf ear.That's childish.
The part in bold is just a usual rant.

Pakistani officials have dropped hints that their own investigation will show that the Mumbai plot was hatched in Bangladesh and had Indian co-conspirators. But India has given Pakistan and the United States considerable material evidence, including intercepted phone calls and forensic DNA matching the terrorists to a boat that left from Pakistan. So any Pakistani campaign to deflect or diffuse blame is likely to make Pakistani authorities look even more irresponsible than they do now.

These are the direct communications between the GOP and GOI, what it has to do with the intelligence organizations.Haven't accepted an offer of joint investigation.Now why so restless??

Over the years, the ISI has received plenty of outside help. In the 1980s, the CIA cooperated with the ISI and Saudi intelligence in funding, training, and arming Afghan and foreign guerrillas to fight the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. This proxy war was initiated by former President Jimmy Carter and expanded under Ronald Reagan. It succeeded in driving the Red Army out of Afghanistan. But it also drew in violent Islamists from many countries who coalesced in terrorist networks, the most notorious of which became Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda.

Coordination do occur among intelligence organizations when the goals don't differ.Nothing new.Usama bin Ladin was an American treasure during afghan war and still is(for some other reasons) and they are trying to find this treasure.

In the mid-1990s, the ISI sponsored the Taliban. The aim was to have an allied force in control of Afghanistan, to prevent India from extending its influence there, and to provide the ISI with training camps outside Pakistan for groups conducting operations in Indian-ruled Kashmir. Today, some of those terrorist groups are turning their fury against the established order in Pakistan.

Apart from India's public attempts to hold the ISI guilty for the Mumbai crimes, Pakistan needs to recognize its own interest in remolding and redirecting the agency, so it can extinguish a terrorist fire that may otherwise consume Pakistan itself.

Pakistan's ISI problem - The Boston Globe

You know the term good talibans and bad talibans was coined by Americans themselves and they are still trying to negotiate with them.ISI never sponsored them it was American intelligence which funded them handsomely.

And the Talibans in Afghanistan never related themselves with TTP.So does this click something in your mind?

Thanks for the advice.

what the west is thinking about the ISI.

Lastly we give a damn to what they think,it doesn't matter in the end.Although i have posted my views about it
 
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ISI is Pakistan's Front line Defence....and of course it irritates our enemies.....The Title article is height of BS...
 
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