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Pakistan's Gulf relationship...perception and reality

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I found the below article very indicative of wishful thinking. However it does address a timely topic I think. The author does not seem to think much of the fact that a large section of Pakistani population has turned AGAINST Saudi Arabia with the realization that Saudi funded wahabiism has dragged Pakistan down internally and internationally!

It is not any communication issue that has resulted in the current breakup. Saudies are genuinely feeling betrayed by Pakistani establishment.

Pakistan genuinely feel damaged by Saudi wahabiisim's impact.

Natural allies is no longer a term that can be used, It never was true but just wishful thinking.
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Pakistan and the Gulf: what we can do - The Express Tribune

quote: "However, our choice of how we communicated our intentions led to an unnecessary diplomatic crisis that will reverberate for a long time to come. The method we adopted was crude, cold, and badly mishandled."
 
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Saudis seemed to have understood the fact that Pakistan is no longer going to clean up any other country's mess in the name of being allies and they've taken it well. Pakistanis in Saudi arab are still living like they were before this whole Yemen thing started. The only people who seem to have misunderstood this as an opportunity to sneak into the Saudi camp are Indians and they have been shown the exit way.
 
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Saudis seemed to have understood the fact that Pakistan is no longer going to clean up any other country's mess in the name of being allies and they've taken it well. Pakistanis in Saudi arab are still living like they were before this whole Yemen thing started. The only people who seem to have misunderstood this as an opportunity to sneak into the Saudi camp are Indians and they have been shown the exit way.
I think having an operation in Waziristan is enough explanation for them that Pakistan is already got their hands full right now. If their was an opening then Pakistan would have send their Forces without any questions asked. Even Egyptians havent send their Army because they are facing more or less same situation in Sinai as well so even in Saudi Circles its understandable that when Allies are already stretched to their limits they wont going to help no matter how many favors Saudis would shaver upon them they have to start relying on their own strength as they have one of the most advance Military in a region which means for something.
 
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Anyone waiting for a Pak-Saudi breakup is just dreaming.

One incident does not change the fact that Pakistan has always supported KSA in security matters, morally and militarily.
 
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I found the below article very indicative of wishful thinking. However it does address a timely topic I think. The author does not seem to think much of the fact that a large section of Pakistani population has turned AGAINST Saudi Arabia with the realization that Saudi funded wahabiism has dragged Pakistan down internally and internationally!

It is not any communication issue that has resulted in the current breakup. Saudies are genuinely feeling betrayed by Pakistani establishment.

Pakistan genuinely feel damaged by Saudi wahabiisim's impact.

Natural allies is no longer a term that can be used, It never was true but just wishful thinking.
----------------------------------------------------------

Pakistan and the Gulf: what we can do - The Express Tribune

quote: "However, our choice of how we communicated our intentions led to an unnecessary diplomatic crisis that will reverberate for a long time to come. The method we adopted was crude, cold, and badly mishandled."

There is more to this relationship than meets the eye. And no, Saudi government has not stir up terrorism in Pakistan and they won't do it.
 
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There is more to this relationship than meets the eye. And no, Saudi government has not stir up terrorism in Pakistan and they won't do it.


Yes, I know there is more than meets the eye. Slowly the Pakistani public are waking up to the truth.

Saudia Arabia is America is No.One Ally.
America is Isreal's No. One Ally.

Now the riddle.What does that make Saudia Arabia to Isreal?
 
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Yes, I know there is more than meets the eye. Slowly the Pakistani public are waking up to the truth.

Saudia Arabia is America is No.One Ally.
America is Isreal's No. One Ally.

Now the riddle.What does that make Saudia Arabia to Isreal?

Sir everyone looks after its own national interest. We should look after ours. I'm waiting for that day. I don't get judgemental on other nations.
 
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a large section of Pakistani population has turned AGAINST Saudi Arabia with the realization that Saudi funded wahabiism has dragged Pakistan down internally and internationally!
It is a wrong approach for an outsider(on offense intended) to try to judge the mood of a people by visiting an online forum that is frequented only by a very small proportion of that nation. It will be wrong to say that Pakistanis have actually turned against Saudis because of their wahabi madrassas, believe me most of our people still think that all of this terrorism is a conspiracy against Pakistan by likes of India, Israel and US.

The thinking that radicalization of the society because of the Saudi funded madrassas is the biggest menace of Pakistan, can only be found in the liberal segment of the society and their numbers are actually negligible when compared to the overall population of Pakistan.

The love and hate for the Saudis has always been there and no matter how many people deny that it is a fact that it has always depended upon one's sectarian affiliation.

Let me give you a break up of our society real quick.

3% are minorities (hindus, christians, sikhs and ahmadis) they certainly don't have any love for saudis.

15-18%
are Shia Muslims, they actually hate Saudi regime and the reasons are quite obvious.

Then about 80% of the society is Sunni, but its not a homogeneous group. The Sunnis of Pakistan (in fact of the Sub-continent) can mainly be divided into two groups. In Pakistan their population is roughly as

40-45% Brelvi Sunnis, they are not huge fans of Saudi regime because of the destruction of Companion's tombs e.t.c and because Saudis consider many of their practices as bidah and don't allow them to practice them while being in Saudia during Hajj and Umrah.

35-40% Deobandis, Ahle-Hadiths, Jamat-e-Islami, These guys have a soft corner for Saudi regime and have varying degree of love for them. Ahle-Hadiths being their most ardent supporters, followed closely by Deo-bandis and to some extent Jamat e Islami people.

Now if you see, about 60-65% Pakistani population has never been in the Saudi camp any ways.

But here is the catch, most of the rural population of Pakistan is actually Brelvi, while most of the Urban centers are dominated by Deobandis, Ahle-Hadiths and Jamat e Islami.

Also the later group is much more politically active. Most of the major religious political or social parties are actually either Deobandi, Jamati or Ahle-Hadith, Jamiat Ulma e Islam, Jamat e Islami and of course Jamat ul Dawah to name a few. Most of the Tahafuz e Harmain Shareefain rallies were conducted by these parties (barring Jamat e Islami).

So you see Saudis never enjoyed over-whelming public support in Pakistan but the segment of society that supported them previously still supports them and government of Pakistan is under no pressure from its people to change its policy towards Saudi Arabia.

It is not any communication issue that has resulted in the current breakup. Saudies are genuinely feeling betrayed by Pakistani establishment.
Let's analyze Saudis current situation and the real and perceived existential threats that they are facing.

Externally they find themselves surrounded by Iranian proxies in Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon.

Saudi Arabia also has a large Shia population in Najran in the south and in its provinces around the Persian gulf region which also happens to be the most oil rich area of the country. Saudi regime is not sure about where the loyalty of these regions lie.

Currently Saudis are not facing any major armed resistance from this community but there has been some incidents in the past. And there are groups like Hizbullah al Hijaz that are funded by Iranians and have the toppling of the regime as their agenda.

The regime is also not confident about their popularity among the masses and it was evident during their jittery reaction to the Arab Spring. After the fall of Egyptian and Tunisian dictatorships, Saudis quickly created 130 Billion USD fund for keeping the locals happy and off the streets. They also asked the Wahabi clerics to issue a fatwa against public demonstrations, which they did and was quite effective.

If the Shia provinces of Saudia revolts, with or without the Iranian interference, it can become tricky for the Saudi forces to handle it. What if the Houthis actually infiltrate into Najran and local populace start supporting them? And that is not the only scenario where a civil war can break out in Saudia, remember its a monarchy and has no roots in the people, who knows what effect another Arab Spring kind of wave will have on the regime.

So if a civil war breaks out and Saudis require external help, what can be Saudia's options? One is to look towards West or even to India as few people like to think, but that will be suicidal as presence of non-muslim soldiers on the land of Suadia proper will only make the populace even more angry and anti-regime.

So they will have to look towards the Muslim countries. There are three countries in the region who have large enough forces that can help out KSA in such a scenario, Turkey, Egypt and Pakistan.

You can count Turkey out, they are not gonna be part of any of this.

Egyptians, yes with Sisi in power and all the economic aid that they are receiving from KSA will have to act in their support.

But Saudis will not want to put all their eggs in one basket, what if Egypt goes through another revolution and the next regime is pro Iran or at least want to stay neutral.

So the third country that is this western neighbor of India, is the back up force that Saudis can rely upon in case of trouble at home.

Do you think any regime in the situation that the Saudis find themselves in, can afford to BREAK UP with one of the two countries that can actually come to their aid in a crisis. I think not. So no breaking up between Pakistan Saudi Arabia, its just a minor hick up and you will soon find things getting normal again.
 
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I found the below article very indicative of wishful thinking. However it does address a timely topic I think. The author does not seem to think much of the fact that a large section of Pakistani population has turned AGAINST Saudi Arabia with the realization that Saudi funded wahabiism has dragged Pakistan down internally and internationally!

It is not any communication issue that has resulted in the current breakup. Saudies are genuinely feeling betrayed by Pakistani establishment.

Pakistan genuinely feel damaged by Saudi wahabiisim's impact.

Natural allies is no longer a term that can be used, It never was true but just wishful thinking.
----------------------------------------------------------

Pakistan and the Gulf: what we can do - The Express Tribune

quote: "However, our choice of how we communicated our intentions led to an unnecessary diplomatic crisis that will reverberate for a long time to come. The method we adopted was crude, cold, and badly mishandled."
pak saudi relations are strong as always and always will be... the only reason pakistan didnt bomb hothis is becuase of current situation...otherwise they would have.
 
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@Sharpshooter12 - very informative analysis, thanks. Besides facts these things are very perception driven as well.

Whether it is right or wrong, the house of Saud had developed a proprietary outlook towards Pakistan. The actions and considerations taken by Nawas Sherief, Musharraf et al simply vouch for and add to that. The funds that are sent in continue and is disproportionate.

Secondly, the role of US-KSA influence cannot be understated. Two phone calls from a US intelligence official was ALL that was required for the entire arrangement when Sherief was exiled, such was the influence of US on KSA and KSA on Pakistan even with the then new military coup leader Musharraf. Refer @Atanz summarized above succinctly.

30 to 40% of a nearly 200M population sympathetic to extremist religion is not good news at all, even if only a tiny fraction amongst that actually act!

pak saudi relations are strong as always and always will be... the only reason pakistan didnt bomb hothis is becuase of current situation...otherwise they would have.

May be. I am referring to the insult that the Saudis and their GCC allies have taken to heart when Pakistan said no.
 
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40-45% Brelvi Sunnis, they are not huge fans of Saudi regime because of the destruction of Companion's tombs e.t.c and because Saudis consider many of their practices as bidah and don't allow them to practice them while being in Saudia during Hajj and Umrah.

35-40% Deobandis, Ahle-Hadiths, Jamat-e-Islami, These guys have a soft corner for Saudi regime and have varying degree of love for them. Ahle-Hadiths being their most ardent supporters, followed closely by Deo-bandis and to some extent Jamat e Islami people.


there are 50% barelvi/sufi in Pakistan.

Barelvi Islam
 
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Yes, I know there is more than meets the eye. Slowly the Pakistani public are waking up to the truth.

Saudia Arabia is America is No.One Ally.
America is Isreal's No. One Ally.

Now the riddle.What does that make Saudia Arabia to Isreal?
Sirjee a point or two to ponder about.....number 1 when we were hit by sanctions in 98 after the atomic explosions Saudi Arabia helped us in arranging oil over deferred payments and number 2 recently the Saudis poured $1.5 billion into our coffers as a gift they didn't think twice.....So what I am trying to say is the least we can do is to be grateful to the person who helped us out during our difficult times and yes if you ask me I would've definitely done them a favor by helping them out against the houthis
 
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It's stupid, people (against KSA) start jumping when Pakistan denied landing troops in Yemen by saying now Pakistan is favouring Iran or went KSA . in reality, Pakistan still gave full confidence to Saudis that they will help if there is something wrong inside KSA. Pakistani vessels (jointly with USA) block sea route for Iran to supply anything to houthis.

Pakistan is having full hand while cleaning up there own country's mess a.k.a Indian support. So they couldn't help. Not because they didn't wanted ..
 
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