Pakistan’s Geoeconomic Delusions

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Sorry, I disagree. You can choose to call me whatever [libtard,westoxified,etc,etc] but while blaming everything on religion is is absurd because such a subject cannot be reduced to a binary. However with this caveat out of the way religion is a major impediment and part of the problem.

This is because the parasites as described by me earlier in conjunction with the ruling elite have used Islam to create a cocktail which they have used as veil to carry out their rapacious habits and sedate the masses or numb them so they can't see what is happening to them.

The narrative of Islam has taken up such a large part of the public space and thus has detracted from what you have been centre of the public attention. In other societies such a rapacious elite would have faced a massive left based movement and thrown this order into the Arabian Sea. This has not happened because the mullah jas been released amongst the masse to confuse, sedate, divide the victims of this order.

This is nothing new. In Europe we also saw use of religion to suppress the masses which in fact gave rise to Marxism which as we all know takes very dim view of religion for this reason. Religion is perfect handmaiden of the rotten order and has served the Pakistan parasitic elites well.

Let us not forget that this very parasite, mafias, corrupt politicians and all other including military officials are the apparatchiks and the Islamic Republic. This is what Islamic Republic looks like sans the myths perpetuated by some. A rotten structure eating away the blood of 100s of million poor.

How exactly has religion been used to 'sedate the masses' to the point that the masses ignore the incompetence of the politicians they elect? Can you draw a credible and tangible connection between religion and the continued influence (with the electorate) of the PPP & PMLN?

Benazir, Zardari, Bilawal, Nawaz, Shahbaz and Maryam are far cries from the kind of religious bigotry people like Captain Safdar spout, nor have any of the major political parties (PTI, PMLN, PPP) weaponized religion like the TLP, for example.

Political parties that openly court the religious vote and openly espouse their religious identity and support for 'Shariah' have consistently lost, and lost horribly, at the polls.

The misuse of religion (especially in terms of mob violence, stifling of free speech and discrimination against certain communities) is absolutely a problem, but Pakistan's economic and governance woes are not because of Pakistan's religiosity or it being an Islamic Republic. Blaming religion is a lazy answer to a whole host of complex issues bedeviling Pakistan, and the only thing focusing on Pakistan's theocratic foundation is going to get you is sidelined.

Pakistan is going to remain a theocratic State, for the next several generations. There are many other areas where reform and change can be brought and movement made towards a more progressive society without attacking the religious foundations of the State.

 

[ziaulislam]

bhai why you always try to debate those issues about which you have no idea .... ???

Karachi is not Shenzen or Hong Kong and neither it will come close to these cities for at least 10-15 years do you have any understanding or knowledge Why is this the case .... ???

I won't go into details but in short Karachi have some internal issues related to Infrastructure and Governance .... same is the case with whole Sindh Province .... which will be the least beneficiary of CPEC projects for obvious reasons ... in future even Baluchistan will surpass Sindh in infrastructure & economic activity.

So plz don't argue subjects with superficial knowledge

===================================


Now for those who are still thinking CPEC only as an agreement for Transit of Chinese goods need to answer

Why China and Pakistan are cooperating in Agriculture specially in high yeild crops and cooperation to improve seed quality.

Why Chinese are constructing Dams ..... ???

Why Special Economic Zones are being set up in KPK and Punjab and why Chinese companies are buying lands in those .... ???

As far as manufacturing sector is concern and almost stagnant export by this sector is concern plz need to answer what is the current manufacturing capabilities of Pakistan.

And for Chinese investment why Chinese auto manufacturers are entering in joint investment agreements in Pakistan with local investors ... why Suzuki and other establish Japanese auto brands first time facing serious competitions ..... ??

Why Haire have invested in home appliances mobile handset, laptop manufacturing .... ??

Why other mobile hand set companies are investing in Pakistan ..... ???

So on and so there is many things happening in Pakistan in economic fronts which will bear fruit in next decade ..... so rather to question on the basis of superficial knowledge people need to study this subject more deeply ....

hack even I am not current with latest developments ....

Why because pakistan is projected to be fifth biggest market in the world

And honestly chinese are the main players in this field everywhere

We still need more reforms in tax utility and law for more investment to follow

 

[nahtanbob]

Pakistani are misunderstanding CPEC
CPEC is great it will provide very much needed infrastructure thats needed for industrial development

But CPEC ISNT INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT

NOR ARE WE SITTING ON SUEZ CANAL

Eastern china has very sparse population so dont expect any transit from china towards gawadar

I presume you meant "Western China"
@ziaulislam

bhai why you always try to debate those issues about which you have no idea .... ???

Karachi is not Shenzen or Hong Kong and neither it will come close to these cities for at least 10-15 years do you have any understanding or knowledge Why is this the case .... ???

I won't go into details but in short Karachi have some internal issues related to Infrastructure and Governance .... same is the case with whole Sindh Province .... which will be the least beneficiary of CPEC projects for obvious reasons ... in future even Baluchistan will surpass Sindh in infrastructure & economic activity.

So plz don't argue subjects with superficial knowledge

===================================


Now for those who are still thinking CPEC only as an agreement for Transit of Chinese goods need to answer

Why China and Pakistan are cooperating in Agriculture specially in high yeild crops and cooperation to improve seed quality.

Why Chinese are constructing Dams ..... ???

Why Special Economic Zones are being set up in KPK and Punjab and why Chinese companies are buying lands in those .... ???

As far as manufacturing sector is concern and almost stagnant export by this sector is concern plz need to answer what is the current manufacturing capabilities of Pakistan.

And for Chinese investment why Chinese auto manufacturers are entering in joint investment agreements in Pakistan with local investors ... why Suzuki and other establish Japanese auto brands first time facing serious competitions ..... ??

Why Haire have invested in home appliances mobile handset, laptop manufacturing .... ??

Why other mobile hand set companies are investing in Pakistan ..... ???

So on and so there is many things happening in Pakistan in economic fronts which will bear fruit in next decade ..... so rather to question on the basis of superficial knowledge people need to study this subject more deeply ....

hack even I am not current with latest developments ....

none of these will generate the $62 billion needed to repay CPEC loans

 

[HRK]

Why because pakistan is projected to be fifth biggest market in the world

first of all my reply was rejecting the notion that CPEC is nothing more than a goods transit agreement, therefore I asked this questions as these projects were initiated under CPEC .... and these are proofs that CPEC is more than just A Goods Transit Agreement b/w Pakistan and China ......

Now the second part we are a big consumer market no doubt but our overall consumption of Chinese goods is less than 1% of Total Chinese export globally, so Chinese are not investing their Time, Knowledge and Finances just because of some futuristic projection or because of the reason that we are an existing market of +220 million people ....

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Pakistan is going to remain a theocratic State, for the next several generations

And it will remain stuck in the cycle it has. From land distribution, to female literacy, to population planning religion has been articulated to foist darkness. And you ask what has religion done? I expected better from you.

Just two aspects - runaway population growth and female literacy have fcuked up Pakistan immeasurably. I won't even bother with the rest. Unless you think having millions of illiterate baby making machines in tandem with millions of madaris uneducated ignorants are foundation of economic power.

Why not ask some ironclad brother of what their ABC of development was ... and then suggest it in Pakistani's religous addled milieu and watch the reaction from the beards!

 

[Menace2Society]

You need to conquer Sindh and free the ports. Why is it taking so long to remove 18th amendment?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You need to conquer Sindh and free the ports. Why is it taking so long to remove 18th amendment?

Hahaha. What many will not trell you is the ports in Karachi are also hostage to rackets. Nothing moves without some payment in kind. Add that to the fact that the ports have some of the longest turn around times in South Asia adds even more cost to the economy and blunts trade.

 

[Menace2Society]

Hahaha. What many will not trell you is the ports in Karachi are also hostage to rackets. Nothing moves without some payment in kind. Add that to the fact that the ports have some of the longest turn around times in South Asia adds even more cost to the economy and blunts trade.

Logic dictates you begin at the choke point but only in Pakistan can a govt not last its tenure but respect its so called democracy enough and turn a blind eye to the obvious. Move the fucking tanks in and remove the sindh govt by force. No way can a port city like Karachi should be poor, just doesn't add up.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Logic dictates you begin at the choke point but only in Pakistan can a govt not last its tenure but respect its so called democracy enough and turn a blind eye to the obvious. Move the fucking tanks in and remove the sindh govt by force. No way can a port city like Karachi should be poor, just doesn't add up.

PPP and MQM have the choke point in their grip. Both are deep in it. Just because MQM has changed it's permuation does not mean it is now clean from Altaf days. The same faces are in there. Both groups are uber rackets that literally shave of billions every year which then is sent to Dubai, India, Europe.

And the government will do nothing. Not even the army. The problem is the population their continue to vite for both rackets. The iliterates from interior vote for democracy is best defence and the so called literates and progressives of urban areas for MQM. This fact cannot be changed by tanks.

Particularly when weal coalition PTI government depends on some of those racketeers from MQM. Check who the ports minister is. And that will explain everything. Razak Dawood is another parasite say their to make sure nothing really changes.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@Menace2Society If these measure borrowed from China's formula for progress were adopted in Pakistan care to enlighten us who would go on the streets and burn cities down?

• population control. Restricted to max 3.
• female literacy
• marriage prior to 21 illegal

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

And it will remain stuck in the cycle it has. From land distribution, to female literacy, to population planning religion has been articulated to foist darkness. And you ask what has religion done? I expected better from you.

Just two aspects - runaway population growth and female literacy have fcuked up Pakistan immeasurably. I won't even bother with the rest. Unless you think having millions of illiterate baby making machines in tandem with millions of madaris uneducated ignorants are foundation of economic power.

Why not ask some ironclad brother of what their ABC of development was ... and then suggest it in Pakistani's religous addled milieu and watch the reaction from the beards!

You're confusing a statement about the reality of Pakistan with my support for the premise behind said statement.

That Pakistan will remain a theocratic State for the next several generations is fact, reality - whatever you want to call it. Whether you or I support a secular state or a theocratic state is irrelevant. Pakistan is not going to become a secular State through either democratic process or military coup - there just isn't any significant support for such a change.

The issues you are so eager to place at the door of Islam are not purely religious, but a combination of socio-cultural issues that have used religion and molded it to justify existing practices and traditions, not the other way around.

Not sure what fantasy you're living in, but an overwhelming majority of 220 million people is not going to suddenly give up their faith just because you badmouth their religion. So you (as in those who support a secular State) can either continue to see yourselves become more and more irrelevant as you further discredit yourselves by attacking Islam and religion and the foundation of the country, or learn to accept what is and work to enact change within the parameters of the existing constitution.

Where religion has been bastardized to support regressive practices, promote progressive interpretations. Abusing someone's faith and identity is not going to win you respect or leverage to change minds. You'll just be another Salman Rushdie or Tasleema Nasrin - a darling of the liberal West and absolutely useless (except for target practice for the religious right) 'intellectual' at home that further reduces the space for pragmatic liberals to enact incremental change.

 

[Menace2Society]

@Menace2Society If these measure borrowed from China's formula for progress were adopted in Pakistan care to enlighten us who would go on the streets and burn cities down?

• population control. Restricted to max 3.
• female literacy
• marriage prior to 21 illegal

These supposed "Pakistanis" apparently

 

[VCheng]

Why because pakistan is projected to be fifth biggest market in the world

And honestly chinese are the main players in this field everywhere

We still need more reforms in tax utility and law for more investment to follow

Projected. Potential. Zara num ho tau ..... etc. etc.

75 years and the nation is still waiting for any of that to be actually realized. And yet we are happy with our delusions to stay where we are, to stay on topic, while the world moves on relentlessly.

That Pakistan will remain a theocratic State for the next several generations is fact, reality - whatever you want to call it. Whether you or I support a secular state or a theocratic state is irrelevant. Pakistan is not going to become a secular State through either democratic process or military coup - there just isn't any significant support for such a change.

And that is perfectly fine. After all, it is up to the people to determine what kind of country they wish to live in. If this is what they want, then by all means, they should have it, for better or worse. No problem there.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

And that is perfectly fine. After all, it is up to the people to determine what kind of country they wish to live in. If this is what they want, then by all means, they should have it, for better or worse. No problem there.

Of course it is - that's the point I was trying to make. @Indus Pakistan (or others) can't FORCE change by insulting and ridiculing the religion of a vast majority of people in Pakistan.

The system is what it is, and change needs to be brought incrementally and within the parameters of the existing constitution.

To use an expression that would send PETA into raptures of indignation, 'there is more than one way to skin a cat'

 

[VCheng]

Of course it is - that's the point I was trying to make. @Indus Pakistan (or others) can't FORCE change by insulting and ridiculing the religion of a vast majority of people in Pakistan.

The system is what it is, and change needs to be brought incrementally and within the parameters of the existing constitution.

To use an expression that would send PETA into raptures of indignation, 'there is more than one way to skin a cat'

Agreed. The people of a sovereign nation have the right (and the responsibility) to make their country whatever they wish.