Pakistan's Blunder Of Not Joining The Yemen War:---

[RIP Pak LAW]

It would had fulfilled the prophecy that an army from east will fight for Muslims in end of times.... Perhaps end of times is still long way to go p:

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

@MastanKhan @CHACHA"G" @Simurgh @Boyka @Retired Troll @Salza @Tps43 @Signalian @Dawood Ibrahim @ali_raza @Mangus Ortus Novem @Wa Muhammada @*Awan* @zulu @PakSword and others

Alh This Ramadan, huge strides have been made, The Yemen conflict is very much under control, and is very close to it's objective.

Unfortunately, Pakistan missed the boat. A boat that was loaded with US$15bn+ per annum, for the next five yrs min, because it is a majority held hostage, by a minority.

While a key figure in this saga rakes in millions of US$, the country looks at the US$ shoots through the roof, and the economy in a downward spiral. It is forced to deal with the devil himself, for a measly US$6bn.

After the latest Ormara & Gawadar PC Attacks, Now would be a good time to wake up, and smell the coffee.

Best Regards

My dear friend,


State can only survive if it focuses on its interests and pursue them ruthlessly.

State has to be coldest in this regard... otherwise, it can neither survive nor can it take care of its people.

Perservation of State is the Highest Virtue. It is the Only Virtue for the Ruler.

I would like to ask my Youg and Old Paks: What are the Pak National Interests? (Without emotions, without secterian nonsense)

As a moneyman... I look at things from a perspective from cost-benefit ratio...RoI is what a State must do as well.

Now for a moment let us park this Yemen affair...nobody had asked for anyone to do their fighting...

KSA-UAE-Kwait-Qatar together have Sovereign Funds in excess of $3Trillion. A mere 10% of that invested in Pakistan would transform the country..from 60% below the poverty line... to a middle income country in 10 years.

Do you know what it means for a country of 220million to be a middle income country?

Now coming back to your premise... the question that needs to be frozen here is: Cui bono? (Who benefits)

Who benefits from Pak to remain boxed within its own inertia...be in straightjacket of secterian maffias?

Obviously, the fundamental question is:

What would be effect if Pak becomes a middle income country?

How does it change the Strategic Power Balance and Security Architecture in South West and West Asia?

Who would benefit from it and who would not?

I have been consistently advocating that unless Pak becomes part/shaper of Security Architecture in ME... Pak can never emerge as Regional Power of Global Consequence.

Had we been able to define our national interests clearly...then millions more would be working in GCC... then indian defence budget wouldn't be $50bln... which the indians in GCC send back to india every year.

Can you imagine even if half of it would be sent to Pak... would now Pak be in the firing line of Weaponised Finance of IMF?

Coming back to military angle... had we placed 50.000 troops...in KSA-UAE-Qatar... we would have been in a different position... heck even PNS/PAF could have been stationed there... fully financed and equipped to teeth... not to mention modernisation back home in Pak...

IK is going to meet MBS and the King again.... I am sure he will be asking for a bailout again...

What we need is a comprehensive Strategic Partnership Framework (Economic-Social-Political-Military)... only then will we be able to see massive investments coming in... because Pak has a historic opportunity to be fully integerated into Sino-Arab economies...

Otherwise, we are now just really getting sick of hearing strategic position... if it is not giving strategic dividendts then what is its worth...

Unless Pak defines its strategic interests all the way to East Africa... we shall remain in the state of .... #RentARally with #FreeBaryani #QimaWalayNan to take home to....

This current Muk-Mukka of US-Iran has fooled the masses but it puts Arabs in a very difficult position... I am more worried about proxies in AF...

CPEC...CPEC.... CPEC will remain shallow sound-bites unless ME is fully integerated and partner in it...

Money is not the problem... Paradigm is. Pak State at this moment...for last 70 for that matter... is living without one.

The current state of affairs can be used to Pak's advantage...but for that we need a Statesman!


Regards,

Mangus

 

[Fracker]

Correct with everything else but in regards to the shia community. They need to answer a few questions.
1. Who are they loyal to?
2. If not Pakistan then why are they living there?

If we go same way, may be even question can be asked by Sunni where their loyalty lies?

I have different opinion on this , we do have trust issues between both community. It is there from the day Muslim Arab attacked Persia . Both civilization wanted to show dominant.

We can't deny both Shia and Sunni has their loyalty across the country due to their faith. And this make sense since Pakistan was created on the basis of Islam. So we all have to respect each other and continue to progress. And if such conflicts do arrive like we have here in Yemen or Syria Pakistan should always choose neutrality path. Peace path. This will not only help Iran and KSA but also Pakistan.

Money is not everything..

 

[CHACHA"G"]

@BHarwana , bro I really don't want to hurt you that was not my intension , But your questions after questions (so many members answered them) made me say what I said.. And from whom you want to listen and what ? Just name it and be open about it.
Again thank you for telling truth (although you did not answer all my questions) .. Enough from me for you on this topic and on this thread ..
In the end , Yemen war is Arab fighting with Arab and both parties are Sunni and Iran interfering in Yemen 1000s of miles away . KSA too interfering but Yemen is KSA nab..
I still don't get how going into Yemen had offended Iran (we are not going to fight or kill irani people or even Shia) and bring that war from Yemen to Pakistan...…
Rest time will tell .And As a good Pakistani I stand with Pakistan . . .

My dear friend first of all you called me a sectarian just because I was against the war and going into Yemen that is strange.

Now what is Iran doing in Yemen. I have already answered your question in that but Iran is there to make sure that Yemen's civil war ends in Iranian favor.

Saudis are in Yemen to make sure Yemen's civil war ends in their favor.

Hope this answers your question.

But my question still remains which is related to the topic and that is benefits to Pakistan you have not shown me those benefits bro. Every one says there are benefits but never explains what are the benefits in detail.

I am not a kid whom you can give a lolly pop I need to know what are benefits and what are danger of this war to Pakistan. This is my question. If we walk into Yemen there are dangers as well there it is not a simple war so enliten me on them plz. Now war in Yemen is not related to us in anyway it is away from our shores. There is no Pakistani involvement there in local conflict and we are not getting any back lashes from that war till now. So we need to know what are we buy our selves before we make the payment with the blood of our soldiers. This is not sectarianism but this is Patriotism to not to sell the blood of your army for dollars. Don't you think?



I am not underestimating anything, I want to hear it from them that what we have and what is already not there in war. I want them to praise us and recognize our extra ablity.

 

[Humble Analyst]

trust me, i dont care about whats beyond that border, my only concern is whats towards our side. simply put we ll need more resources and manpower to properly protect that border, which we dont have. even crushing an insurgency by handful of terrorists is proving so hard in vast wilderness of Balochistan. in this case we ll have to prepare for another conventional conflict there, making another HOT border. Are we or were we in position to do that ?
question is purely about our own capacity and interest and not out of feelings for any other state....I am too much of a Pakistani to care for anybody else before my own country.

I will be going slightly off topic but the problem of controlling the border is an important issue. For years we have faced cross border terrorists incursion. Our first line of defence is paramilitary forces and they should not make a distinction between smugglers and terrorists. If the paramilitary forces has the means and they do the job well the borders will be controlled better.

Sir ji ...its all game of Yemen port and gulf of Yemen issue. Plus, according to Yemani people KSA is sucking out there oil. They don't pay passage fee for using there gulf. What we see on TV is different from ground reality. And on top media is giving this message that these poor Houthi are shia, they are sunni Hanfi Zaidi muslims. Plus , these people ruled Yemen for centuries , they slaughtered every invader in past recent history, they slaughered over 12 thousand Egyptian invaders .These flip flop warrior is very tough to defeat. This Yeman war started in 91 and now for last four years it intensified.
But the most important fact, Yemani people has so much respect for Pakistnai and hundreds of Pakistani families setttled there for decades.

It is not their waters it is international waters, Bab ul mandeb is international waters.

If we go same way, may be even question can be asked by Sunni where their loyalty lies?

I have different opinion on this , we do have trust issues between both community. It is there from the day Muslim Arab attacked Persia . Both civilization wanted to show dominant.

We can't deny both Shia and Sunni has their loyalty across the country due to their faith. And this make sense since Pakistan was created on the basis of Islam. So we all have to respect each other and continue to progress. And if such conflicts do arrive like we have here in Yemen or Syria Pakistan should always choose neutrality path. Peace path. This will not only help Iran and KSA but also Pakistan.

Money is not everything..

Sunnis do not have loyalties at the cost of Pak as much as the other sects love for Iran.
Iran has always played dangerous games since 80s. May it be Hezbollah, Houthis or sects in Pakistan. Who betrayed Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan?

 

[BHarwana]

@BHarwana , bro I really don't want to hurt you that was not my intension , But your questions after questions (so many members answered them) made me say what I said.. And from whom you want to listen and what ? Just name it and be open about it.
Again thank you for telling truth (although you did not answer all my questions) .. Enough from me for you on this topic and on this thread ..
In the end , Yemen war is Arab fighting with Arab and both parties are Sunni and Iran interfering in Yemen 1000s of miles away . KSA too interfering but Yemen is KSA nab..
I still don't get how going into Yemen had offended Iran (we are not going to fight or kill irani people or even Shia) and bring that war from Yemen to Pakistan...…
Rest time will tell .And As a good Pakistani I stand with Pakistan . . .

Look my friend do you think I am an idiot that I am asking so many questions? Nor I am trolling. If I was trolling the purpose would be to shut this thread but I asked @Dubious to clean it and reopen it.

The discussion should remain on our gains in going to Yemen and the draw backs of that war. If any one tells draw back he is labeled other wise or asks questions. Not talking about you but when there are no answers it become labeling game to prove point. People here have given more sectarian comments and have I said anyone as sectarian? No I want to understand Dynamics of this discussion.

Here is what I want to know. What would we gain and what would we lose. How will our gains benefit us and damage us. Our the gains really being transferred to us or just a Mirage. Who will be helped with those gains? How will going to Yemen damage our enemies or give them strength? Do those gains also compliment our already developed foreign policy and our existing inflow of resources and how will these gains effect our China USA and Russia relationship. These all issue are needed to be assessed before making any decision forward.

There are many more question which need to be answered like if we go in Yemen whose side should we chose and how will that effect our domestic population.
For example the demand for joining the war is coming from allies which are not democracy and we are democracy. These all things need analysis.

 

[El Sidd]

if we go in Yemen whose side should we chose

the Yemeni government side

how will that effect our domestic population

both countries can Develop together

joining the war is coming from allies which are not democracy and we are democracy

Pakistan is not a democracy

and have I said anyone as sectarian?

repeatedly for anyone who goes against iranian strategy in the region.

you have personally accused me before and proudly claimed its politics.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

the Yemeni government side



both countries can Develop together



Pakistan is not a democracy



repeatedly for anyone who goes against iranian strategy in the region.

you have personally accused me before and proudly claimed its politics.

@BHarwana some answers .. And I also quoted you post from indus Pakistan for some more answers..

 

[Humble Analyst]

Hi,

What most readers and posters are not understanding is that an alliance with the gulf states was for pakistan to keep its tactical assets secure & neuter india---.

If was was able to put 150K troops in the GCC 50 K in emirates---50 K in suadia rest spread in Oman---and other countries---it would have taken the fear of conflcit with india out of the equation.

But pak thought that its tactical assets are secure---and nothing would happen that would change that---. Well---technological advances had happened---Paks tactical assets were only secure for a certain period---now the only country left in the way is iran---things don't look too bright for pakistan---.

In the end pakistan would have seen far more development sooner with the dollars coming in and an industrial base being established in pakistan than thru cpec---.

Even for cpec / gwadar---pak military was extremely callous---and if posters may remember I had written many a times years ago about getting type 054's---submarines and heavy strike fighters---but pak military was living in the la la land till the indian submarine got caught in pakistani waters years ago---.

And then the pak military generals woke up---found out that they did not have any defense for Gwadar---.

Pakistanis and pak military has the habbit of finding an excuse that it will not happen till it happens---and the famous reply the great pakistani line was---as the general put it---" I did not understand it at that time "---" Hamein samajh nahin aaya uss waqt"---.

Hi,

Why did british east india company come to india---the british were broke after the war---unemployment rampant---men needed jobs---they only had one skill---they were battle hardened coming out of a 100 years war---. Also the protestant church did not want the catholic church to take it all---.

So---they ventured out---they had to deal the catholic spain---and catholic france---.

Same with us---pak military is coming out of a 13 years of war with insurgents---there are job issues---there is welfare of the state issue---. Indian influence needs to be negated---.

And the biggest reason of all---the world super power has allowed pak military to proceed to the region in large numbers---.

How illogical could gen Raheel be in not accepting what was presented to him on a platter---.

sir jiii , your thread is regard pakistan earn strategic height in middle east and it totally went different direction .. india centric ..lol... it turn into shia sunni issue... lol majority failed to comprehend what you are saying .

Well we all know why this offer was not taken by Pakistan. Who is supporting Houthis?

 

[BHarwana]

@BHarwana some answers .. And I also quoted you post from indus Pakistan for some more answers..

Those are not answers my friend that is trolling I can rubish those answers in 5sec. Please be realistic and discuss this issue on valid grounds not on fan boy theories.

Now one answer is there that Pakistan is not democracy is that a valid answer?
If Pakistan is not democracy then this discussion has already ended which means our dictatorship wants to stay away from Yemen.

@CHACHA"G" please bro move away from troll answers and move into reality.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Totally agree with you when we had brave generals in command, our soldiers and military officials were participating in the middle eastern wars. Gen. Zia himself headed Jordanian troops during 1970 military operations there. Pakistan was not even a so-called nuclear power at that time and had a much weaker military at that time. Yet our soldiers were bravely fighting on the soil of jordan.

Jordan is still our friend, lot more than most people know

 

[CHACHA"G"]

@CHACHA"G" please bro move away from troll answers and move into reality.

O mera bhai from Jhang (I have so many good memories "don't ask") then you tell me what is the reality ?? Yaar you promised you will give your version of Yemen war in detail , where is that bro , I am still waiting man !!

Please do add few extra things in your detail version (so people can read all on one place and in 1 post)

1. What is Iran doing In Yemen
2. Why is iran in yemen
3. Why Iran calling Hothies (Sunni) Muslims as Shia ?
4. Arab fighting Arab (both Sunnis) why cant we go (in this case why didn't we went) and fix their problem?
5. How that war will come to Pakistan ( When this war is not a sectarian war)
6. Yemen and her strategic location
7. Bases in GCC
8. Economical benefits from GCC (Juts like Egypt)

I rest my case bro . Please provide me your answer , your version on the matter . And Again I stand with My country Pakistan . .

 

[M. Sarmad]

These nationalists dont care about the death of 100s of thousands of innocent muslims all they care about is money even if it means murder of civilians. These people are no different than the Americans who invaded Iraq. House of Saud is an American/Israeli puppet why TF should we fight for them?

It's mostly the Saudi loyalists and sectarians who advocate killing of innocent Yemeni civilians and starving their children to death as a 'punishment', and a few nationalists have lined up behind them believing that materially supporting the perpetrators of this barbaric atrocity might bring financial and geopolitical gains to Pakistan. They have absolutely no regard for human life and cannot on moral grounds protest against Israeli atrocities in Palestine, or Indian atrocities in Occupied Kashmir. Yet you would see them zealously complaining about the human right violations being carried out by Israel and India. Hypocrisy of the highest order!


These people, thankfully, are a minority. We are a democracy and our lawmakers unanimously passed a resolution in a joint parliamentary session in April 2015 that Pakistan "should maintain neutrality in the conflict so as to be able to play a proactive diplomatic role to end the crisis”

 

[Humble Analyst]

Pakistan army is not trained well for such terrain, it will be very high casuality rate for Pakistan .... on serious note. That is totally different topic , where boots on the ground required a huge support. I don't want to see a dead Paksitani solider for " for few dollars more" .

Sir with respect Pakistan trains for desert warfare and this was a chance to reduce the casualties of Yemen conflict. You are giving a lot of reasons against the option of Pakistan siding with KSA but most of these reasons are .. I am trying to look for a polite word...
Without real substance they look like baseless excuses

 

[VCheng]

These people, thankfully, are a minority. We are a democracy and our lawmakers unanimously passed a resolution in a joint parliamentary session in April 2015 that Pakistan "should maintain neutrality in the conflict so as to be able to play a proactive diplomatic role to end the crisis”

Was this resolution passed before or after the multibillion largess from the Saudis towards Pakistan?