Pakistan's Artillery Upgrade Discussions

[MastanKhan]

Unfotunately making roads is tantamount to giving the advantage to the otherwise to deny and take it to their own advantage.

best is to not do it. we used the kalahari landscape to our advantage and built vehicles to traverse it vs building roads. That is an advantage you want to have.

Hi,

Something so simple in thought---yet many cannot grasp the issue---.

 

[Zarvan]

Mekatronik 81mm mortar on its trailer (Picture source: Army Recognition)

Mekatronik 81mm mortar, a weapon with autoloader much appreciated by its users (Picture source: Army Recognition)

 

[Signalian]

Is there really a good reason to carve dirt road to a difficult mountain top post where mules or human porters can do the job e.g posts on LOC.
We used human porters during Kargil war. No roads were carved out, in fact many volunteers were frustrated that they volunteered to fight but were used for portering duties.

Yes, Med evac, which is priority and heavy logistics which stand out of human/animal loading capability.

Obviously!

And if one is employing human porters, using mules instead will almost always be better.
We employ mules on LOC, Siachen, and even areas of FATA.

Monabao is there for a reason.

Heli is always preferred but ranges around LOC restricts its flight. Most of the area around AK and LOC can be easily covered by helis. Mules are not better in any sense, they are cheap to operate but the downsides are there, they are slow which cause delays, round trips get extended. Motorised transport is secondary choice, ATV's are an option, then 4x4 and after that 6x6 or 8x8 trucks.

One does not necessarily need to build roads in every nook and cranny of the country.

Chinese soldiers carrying luggage on their backs. Mules could've helped.

Maybe company level supplies to posts scattered around. If its a Battalion sized, Brigade sized or Div sized Ops and you are using human or mules for supplies, then dont even start the Ops.

You are quoting wrong example of Kargil. The Kargil Ops was section/platoon level strengths, occupying strategic posts like peaks. It wasnt a major offensive or defensive Ops. Next Ops will never be like Kargil Ops. Fast transports for logistics, assisting Battalion/Brigade level Ops, will be required.

No one said to move back to Napoleonic era and disband trucks altogether. There is no point in having a road up a small hill maned by a section.

That small hill (just like Leepa valley Ops) maybe a start-off point for a future major Ops as it maybe strategically located.
That small hill may also be utilized as a transit check point through which logistics would be passing in case an Ops is going to be conducted in the area.
That small hill maybe becomes a defensive point for friendly retreating forces during Ops.
All these requires roads.
I am sorry to say but with your thinking pattern, no Ops will be able to take place due to logistics issue.

 

[Psychic]

I am sorry to say but with your thinking pattern, no Ops will be able to take place due to logistics issue.

I never talked about supplying entire divisions with mules, or launching major offensives supplied by mule trains.



I already gave the example of Kargil which was a real conflict. [I never compared it to something like Chamb offensive yet you declared it a wrong example]. When I said that mules are useful in certain situations I was not talking about moving troops from Kharian to Bhimber on mules and I am sorry to say that you failed to get the gist of my posts.

And you won't be building roads to each and every isolated section level post in a fluid battlefield deep inside enemy territory in the mountains when majority of engineers will be engaged in the plains and deserts building roads and river crossings. Mountain warfare rules are entirely different my friend.

 

[Signalian]

I never talked about supplying entire divisions with mules, or launching major offensives supplied by mule trains.



I already gave the example of Kargil which was a real conflict. [I never compared it to something like Chamb offensive yet you declared it a wrong example]. When I said that mules are useful in certain situations I was not talking about moving troops from Kharian to Bhimber on mules and I am sorry to say that you failed to get the gist of my posts.

And you won't be building roads to each and every isolated section level post in a fluid battlefield deep inside enemy territory in the mountains when majority of engineers will be engaged in the plains and deserts building roads and river crossings. Mountain warfare rules are entirely different my friend.

On the contrary: Leepa Valley. Ingress and Retreat route of an Ops whether through a post or a whole front covered by isolated posts. Ring any bells why roads is important?

 

[LKJ86]

 

[HRK]

View attachment 522339

any more details ....

 

[LKJ86]

any more details ....

 

[Akasa]

any more details ....

SH-15 howitzer (export version of PCL181) being trialled by the Pakistani Army.

 

[Cuirassier]

We're looking for wheeled SPH and I hope a deal is struck.

 

[Dazzler]

SH-15 howitzer (export version of PCL181) being trialled by the Pakistani Army.

It is competing with Denel T-5 and Nora B-52. Both excellent options and have shown quite a performance. Let's see what happens.

 

[HRK]

SH-15 howitzer (export version of PCL181) being trialled by the Pakistani Army.

it was trailed in Pakistan or in China .... ??

 

[Akasa]

it was trailed in Pakistan or in China .... ??

Uncertain, but more likely in Pakistan since the system would need to face the climate and terrain of the region during its trials.

There is also a photo of the SH15 being prepared for the IDEAS 2018 exhibition in Pakistan.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Whats Bangladesh's experience with Nore B-52? Anyone got insights?

 

[Dreamer.]

It is competing with Denel T-5 and Nora B-52. Both excellent options and have shown quite a performance. Let's see what happens.

What is difference between Denel T-5 and G-6? Both are wheeled SPH, which one is better?