Pakistan's Artillery Upgrade Discussions

[farooqbhai007]

The Pakistani 155 mm albeit towed or semi mobile is already in serial production. Hopefully we will see them during the March 23 parade. The SP will follow soon.

Towed with APU. @iLION12345_1

 

[iLION12345_1]

Here is the thing The upgrade would need to make it up to date with latest standards. so upgrades from the powerpack + transmission. what nations can offer the powerpack + transmission upgrades?

The barrel from 39cal to hopefully a 52cal as it will extend the range.
The comms inside will need to be upgraded if not already.
The various computers and sensors that accompany in the firing of the gun and hitting the target accurately.
The loading mechanism in the much newer M109 has a newer and much better autolader and rammer.

If a solution can be acquired which can bring it upto a decent standard then its all well. otherwise these M109 are rapidly becoming museum pieces.

There is a reason why nations are phasing out M109's and replacing them with Korean K9's. SH15 is a good addition but tracked SPH are still in demand and with the war in Ukraine its become urgent. There is a reason why PA got both SH15 and more surplus M109's

Not every upgrade or modernization needs to be that expensive or in depth. There is already little chance PA will upgrade these M109s, and next to none of an upgrade package that big.

Why do you think they need to be modernized? They don’t need new engines or power packs. Nor do they need massively improved FCS/GCS systems. Nor do we have the money or the need for such an upgrade. Why do we need M109A7 standard guns when we just purchased SH15s? Clearly the next focus is on wheeled artillery systems for PA if they went for those and not new tracked ones, that’s where the money went. These M109s are meant to be the high-quantity backbone of the Arty at this stage, not the cutting edge.

At most basic modernizations to the Aiming and control systems/computers and Ease of use modifications along with a larger caliber gun is already a very potent upgrade and Pakistan can do those itself very easily. They are absolutely not worth more money than basic modernization if at all.

The reason basically everyone dumped the M109 and switched to other platforms instead of accepting M109 modernizations beyond A5 is because it’s an inherently poorly designed system which didn’t even have a proper autoloading system until after the A6.
Yes many of its flaws have been fixed in the latest A7 variant, but nobody Except the US operates those, and even then I’d pick the European, Russian or Chinese equivalent any day because they were built better from the ground up, the European systems specifically after seeing the flaws of the M109 platform.

Still, that doesn’t entirely apply the same to Pakistan, because the Indian SP arty fleet until it’s recent induction of K9s was obsolete and nearly non-existent and is still significantly smaller and less modern than PAs SP fleet after SH15 induction. (which mind you K9 is the worst modern tracked arty system anyone could have picked to buy in 2020 along with the T-155 Firtina because they’re both literally just an M109A5 modernization with Turkish or Korean parts). Keep in mind this doesn’t mean the K9 is obsolete or bad, just that when compared to its competitors, they’re not as good, since they’re still using a rather poor, older design. Even the US is not going full in on the A7 or improving it further, instead they’re switching to a new platform with the M1299.
The K9 and T155 basically the lowest tier of modern tracked SPs in my book, and I’m glad Pakistan considered wheeled options instead of going that route, considering the only option it would have had in tracked SPs is the T155 (The Chinese ones would likely be far too expensive).

(Keep in mind that Indian doctrine sort of focuses more on Towed arty, their current rowed arty fleet is much more numerous and modern than PAs).

I’m very sorry for such language but I don’t know why Pakistanis are so emotional and “jump-the-gun” about everything, something gets a little old and it’s already a museum piece, meanwhile both the Pakistani and Indian military are literally using fighter jets that are thrice as old as these artillery guns, often times with little modernizations, and still getting good use out of them. That’s just not how it works, just because they’re obsolete for America doesn’t mean they are for us.

Not everything needs to be used for a century, these guns are still very potent, artillery doesn’t get old quickly, especially when used correctly. The M109s are following their natural life cycle if they don’t get modernized and are replaced 20 years down the line with a local weapon system based on the towed 155 HIT made or even more wheeled options. And personally I do not see enough advantage of tracked systems over wheeled ones in PAs use case (specifically when it comes to arty), and I guess neither does PA if they were okay with SH15 (which mind you is not the only SP PA will be getting to modernize the arty corps).

 

[iLION12345_1]

The Pakistani 155 mm albeit towed or semi mobile is already in serial production. Hopefully we will see them during the March 23 parade. The SP will follow soon.

Not sure about the 23rd, hopefully so, but we know how PA is, we will see it when they’re ready. They’ve been in serial production for quite a while now actually, and in service too. Though as of yet no work on the SP, but it’s totally a future possibility.

 

[Falcon34]

The Pakistani 155 mm albeit towed or semi mobile is already in serial production. Hopefully we will see them during the March 23 parade. The SP will follow soon.

@PanzerKiel ?

 

[IblinI]

PLZ-05B

 

[Falcon34]

105 mm hawkeye SP, as the army ever thought of such a system or such a system does not caters to PA needs @iLION12345_1

 

[Great Janjua]

105 mm hawkeye SP, as the army ever thought of such a system or such a system does not caters to PA needs @iLION12345_1

Yh they did it was the Sh2

 

[Path-Finder]

The Pakistani 155 mm albeit towed or semi mobile is already in serial production. Hopefully we will see them during the March 23 parade. The SP will follow soon.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1619984575798845440

 

[PanzerKiel]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1619984575798845440

It's not in serial production yet. Just successful trials done.

 

[Princeps Senatus]

It's not in serial production yet. Just successful trials done.

Will there be a parade this year?

 

[WaqarAhmed161247]

No such signs on the ground up to now.

Will there be a parade this year?

 

[HRK]

Will there be a parade this year?

well as per PA custom it will not be included in 23rd March Parade until it get inducted into PA and operationalized

 

[PanzerKiel]

Will there be a parade this year?

Yes, but possibly different venue, small scale....

 

[Ali_Baba]

It's not in serial production yet. Just successful trials done.

Cool - one step "closer" to a Pakistani Self-propelled howitzer ..

 

[Ali_Baba]

Cool - one step "closer" to a Pakistani Self-propelled howitzer ..

@PanzerKiel - you dont think so ? Curious on sadness? To me - be able to design, certify and then manufacture a honegrown towed 155mm howitzer is an achivement and therefore a stepping stone?

Those design skills are valuable as they seem to have been grown organically in Pakistan ?