Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[VelocuR]

^^ I appreciate it, thank you, krash. Interesting thoughtful and remarkable posts which help clear doubts.

You will be next Think-Tank.

 

[krash]

^^ I appreciate it, thank you, krash. Interesting thoughtful and remarkable posts which help clear doubts.

You will be next Think-Tank.

Sir I am but at your service. Its refreshing and encouraging when somebody is willing to argue with you with listening ears and an open mind. Most of us lack that.

 

[VelocuR]

Sir I am but at your service. Its refreshing and encouraging when somebody is willing to argue with you with listening ears and an open mind. Most of us lack that.

Lol, when someone made excellent points, we can't argue with them. Unfortunately Pakistan today are fighting over the arguments without reasonable reasons or sense. I have said same thing to them. We should be open listen, open minds, and try understand other pointviews instead point-scores or shot them due to intolerances.

I am just angry at the loss of Pakistani martyers and even incomplete paint job, lol. I love China and its people always!

 

[Dazzler]

The Russians:

The Slovaks:

The Rafale:

Mate by no means did I ever ask anyone not to do anything about the incursion. What must be done is what Im arguing about. The US is not India and India is no US. There's a hell of a difference between the two. The two responses must be different too. A straight punch to the American jaw would have been idiotic. There are other ways to make them pay. Trust me nobody gets more angry at the loss of a Pakistani soldier's life than the Pakistani army itself. Its something they take on their egos. There are other ways of making the Yanks bleed and still not let our selves get hit back in return. These situations are never to be dealt with in anger or without thought. One needs to be clever to hit someone a lot more powerful.

Furthermore when you are attacked by an ally your first impression is that its a mistake. Then when that said ally pretends to retreat upon your calls of friendly fire you take the bait and are fooled. Then when they return you are caught off guard again. When it finally becomes clear whats actually happening you start carefully deliberating on what to do, keeping in mind that the said ally is the US. One would not want to sacrifice more lives for a decision that is taken hastily and emotionally. Again one needs to be clever in such situations. We cant go charging at them with pitchforks and torches. What do you think would hurt them more a heli and a couple of pilots or the whole Afghan operation put in jeopardy by the closing of the supply routes? Next time when they come over there will be Anzas waiting for them with "self defense" and a white flag painted on them. But even that is not the only option we have......if you catch my drift.

ps: Us Pakistanis cant really play the "our money" card....well at least not the 98% of us who have never paid any taxes.

excellent points! despite all the hush hush, they are paying 400$ for a gallon because of us

 

[Dazzler]

double post....

 

[fatman17]

A noob question, Can these AWACS receive data from satellites while in flight & can ZDK-03 share data with Eireye ?

erieye and ZDK cannot 'talk' to each other at this point but PAF is working on a 'home-made' remedy to link both.

 

[nomi007]

same like f-16s and jf-17 thunder cannot talk or share data
but paf software experts are working on this

 

[Sapper]

A noob question, Can these AWACS receive data from satellites while in flight & can ZDK-03 share data with Eireye ?

Dear,

Not a noob question at all.

Satelite links are required by AEW&C aircrafts that have to operate in large airspaces, to allow them to stay in contact with the ground C4I-Ground-Station if it opreates too far. Larger countries like China and India require this because that would require too many ground relay stations to ensure AEW&Cs remain in comm-link with C4I-base, even inside their airspace. Do remember that the overall battle scenario remains in co-ordinated control of C4I (command, control, communications, computers) station, and only local mission command remains at AEW&Cs discretion.

Satelile links are very weak, and comparatively slow. Out of a 1000 watt signal transmitted from Geo-Sat, only micro-Watts reach the aircraft and vice versa, and sometimes ionosphere also play havoc on those signals. 1000 watt is just example, actual signals are much weaker. It would require only a 100 watt (approx) EW-transmitter inside off 300km range to overtake signal strength and scrable the comm chanel. Instead, ground station signals are much much powerful and too strong to be threatened by EW, unless foe's EW is flying right beside you. In cluttered EW environment, Sat-link are the first to fail. Also, Sat-links have slow and smaller data-rates, and cause almost 1-sec delay for each transmission/command.

To have a Sat-Link on an aircraft, a semi-dome shaped structure is placed on top of fuselage, which holds the moving dish which is responcible to track and relay signals to satelites. This dome (Black Bulge) is visible in these image of Indian and Chinese AEW&C, but not in PAF Saab2000 and ZDK-3, indicating that they have sat-com, and we dont, unless i am mistaken.

PLAAF - KJ-2000

IAF - Phalcon

IAF - Emb145

PAF - Saab2000

PAF - ZDK-03

In short, PAF bases its C4I respocibilities on ground relays because of very small airspace, while China and India bases it on Sat-links owing to their very large airspce.

Regards,
Sapper

 

[Sapper]

Dear Storm Force,

I dont want to quarrel, but the stupidity of your argument amazes me. Does your Su30 require Sat-Link to communicate with its Awacs ... if thats the case ... please show me where the sat dish for Su30 is placed. You have copy pasted a 10,000 word bullsh.it article with only a single line referring to link; it says and i quote, The aircraft communicates, via its data link, with Air Defense HQ, even then it is referring to data-link, not specifically sat-link. I was explaining to someone why Sat-link are there on AEW&C and not all aircrafts, and you start blabbering BS regading rotating Pulse dopler radome vs Static 360 AESA radome, even bolded the parts making it as if the radome is responcible for the satlink. Do you not understand what the topic of my post was, or do i need to say it again ? its aout SATELITE-LINK

Both indian AWACS have direct real time LINK UP with their fighter planes. THEY ARE ABLE to communicate immediately.
I have seen a comparison made where by A PHALCON AWACS with phased array radar passes data in 3-4 seconds.
THE SAME DATA passed by a Pakistan AWACS having to go the GCC first then to fighter takes 30-40 seconds.

You gotta be joking me ... do you even know what you are talking about here ? Do AEW&Cs require ground link to operate, Not at all. They are independant and can communicate with another fighter flying beside it using LINK-16 (for example),via its VHF/UHF antennae. All planes flying ~450km distance can communicate with it at reasonable data speed. Infact its the ground based C4I, i.e. your army-chief, your airforce-chief, your DGMO, you sector-commander, your base-command who are waiting inside a bunker waiting for AEW&Cs to tell them what the hell is going on out there, thousands of km away. For example, an AEW&Cs flying at Arabian sea will relay its realtime picture with multiple relay stations along the coast, which will send info to all three Air-HQs, where decisions to deploy air assets are being made. BUT, the fighters that are in same sector, i.e. Arabian sea, will directly communicate with AEW&C controllers to get target designations and engagement scenarios. Now GCI's will use this picture as well, and co-ordinate launch of additional-fighters and will be responcible for their initial vectoring to the point that they enter the engagement zone. They may still remain under GCI control if within GCI range, or handed over to AEW&C operators, if GCI link with AEW&C is weak/scrabled due to very large distance.

Coming back to Sat-Link, have you ever noticed that during solar storms Satellite Channels get blurry, scrambled or sometimes totally lost, but Terrestial-Broadcasts like PTV/Doordarshan have no effect. The reason is that Land based transmitter have practically unlimited power source, and they usually transmit KiloWatts of signal strength over only 100s of km, while satelites have very limited power source and only transmit <1000 watt signal over 36,000 km. Which one is easier to Jam ? and this is only one way (like GPS), two way comm is even more fragile.

Please stick to Sat-link discussion, i have no time to argue about the Wikipedia copy/pasted comparison of 360 Phalcon AESA with 70's era pulse doppler AWACS.

Lastly the reason why Israel uses sat link and Pakistan doesnt. Simple, we want to defend our country while remaining INSIDE our country, while they usually are found WANDERing about in enemy airspaces.

Regards,
Sapper

 

[SQ8]

This thread is ONLY for discussions on Pakistani AWACS..
No comparisons here.

 

[SQ8]

The other reason why Pakistan does not have Sat links on its aircraft was the delay in setting up a dedicated Sat-comms channel on a safe satellite.

 

[wangrong]

 

[hatf IX]

one countless thanks bro . . .

 

[Mazharrafiq]

can't get that

 

[Storm Force]

Are we correct in assuming that having TUBROPROP platforms PAF is severly limiting both the speed and the range /endurance time of theses awacs.

ALSO surely a turbo prop is far more vulnerable to a potential air to air missle threat esp some thing like the NOVATOR ramjet missle RS172 novatar which will equip both the su30mki and pak fa in the future