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Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

My friend,As I said before plz no local news items and news items related to EMB-145 or Saab-200

two more links
Sweden Finalizes AEW&C Contract With Pakistan
“The Ericsson PS-890 Erieye radar uses an active array with 200 solid state modules. The range of the S-band, 3 GHz, and side looking radar is 300 km. The 1,985-lb (900-kg) dorsal antenna is housed in a 29-ft 6.3-in (9-m) long box radome mounted atop the fuselage. Utilizing adaptive side lobe suppression, the look angle on each side is about 160 degrees. From its standard operational altitude of 6000 metres (19,685 feet, or FL200) the radar has a maximum range of 450 km (279 miles). Against a fighter-sized target effective range is approximately 330 km (205 miles). Seaborne targets can be detected at 320 km (198 miles), though this is a function of the aircraft’s cruising height. The electronically scanned antenna can scan sectors of interest frequently while others are monitored, and a single sector can be scanned in different modes at the same time
Erieye radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.spyflight.co.uk/saab%20argus.htm
 
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Well it won't be not much hard to place a radar in the nose of the Saab-2000 thus making it see in the forward section also, and if you look at the nose of the Saab-2000 nose, it seems different, suggesting that it may also be housing an AESA radar, so the top linear one will look on the sideways, the one if housed in the nose will look forward in areas where the side ones can't and why can't a radar be placed in the back, thus giving it a 360 degree coverage.

I do hope experts may clear it up, but i believe it is possible as they can separately do the job and then sent the information to the console screens where each person can monitor his area of responsibility.
 
The Saab official website mentions 360..the 300 coverage was in older Eriye AWACS which were smaller not in this model.You can have multiple arrays within that beam to provide 360 coverage.
 
The Saab official website mentions 360..the 300 coverage was in older Eriye AWACS which were smaller not in this model.You can have multiple arrays within that beam to provide 360 coverage.

can u provide the link
 
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well the 300 or 360 degree coverage controversy have been debated on in detail in previous pages, it will be helpfull if you can browse through them. some members have also gives the working mechanism and discussion have been carried out keping in mind that technical knowledge about the system which a common civilian like many of us lacks in..
well riend this is why i will advice you to take out some time and go through those post, it will surely help you.

regards!
 
Pakistan will get three more such systems and the second one will be made available in 2011, said Pakistan Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman at the ceremony.

He said PAF would get eighteen more F-16 fighter jets by mid-2010 among other weapons.

Suleman said the first squad of JF-17 thunder aircraft, jointly manufactured by Pakistan and China, will be deployed by June next year.

With the introduction of this state of the art system, PAF has become one of the most modern Air Forces, he said.


Pakistan Air Force gets first early warning aircraft_English_Xinhua

Add FC-20/J-10 to this mix and PAF will become far more effective.

Isn't this too long? Will there be no deliveries in 2010? and only one more system by 2011? :frown:
 
This part of news is straight from Airforce-Technology.com so please if you have better source specifically mention PAF version of Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C not having 360 deg coverage (plz no local news items and news items related to EMB-145 or Saab-200)I will like to agree with you

It matters little whether we have 360 deg coverage or not. You have to think about various things about the employment which can make 360 degree coverage redundant.

A couple of things about the Erieye that should be noted include:

i) Although the aircraft's dorsally mounted AESA radar does not provide 360 degree coverage, the aircraft makes up for the 60 degree blind spots (aft and fore - 30 degrees each) by using its ESM capabilities to defend itself and disrupt the AI radars of the adversary if the threat is emanating from either the aft or fore side.

ii) In most cases, a 360 degree coverage is a limited use luxury because usually the AEW capability is directionally focused, meaning that you are catering for a threat emerging from a certain set of vectors/direction(s). Think about 150 degree coverage being provided by the Erieye on the eastern front and think about what the 150 degree coverage translates into in terms of miles and you will come to the realization that even with a 150 degree over the horizon coverage, Erieye provides a very significant early warning to our air defences.

Where the 360 coverage is helpful is if and when the AEW capability is being used in disaster recovery work where due to the lack of ground facilities, an AEW platform is being used to control air traffic from all directions. However even in such cases, the Erieye AEW platform(s) can be deployed in patterns where providing such coverage is not a huge challenge.

iii) In combat situations, the AEW platform may be called upon to work in extremely dense, multi-vector situations where aircraft from various bases and locations are converging or are being vectored to and from multiple locations. In this case, full 360 degree coverage would be helpful. A very good example of this has been the use of AEW platforms in the two gulf wars where USAF and NATO E-3s were employed in this role extensively and had to monitor air traffic which at times had close to above a thousand nodes in the air at the same time from all around Iraq's neighbouring countries.

Fortunately for the PAF, the threat is primarily uni-directional and while the breadth of the air space to be monitored can be large, the threat pretty much arises from one direction (in this case from the East) and will not require very dense controlling and tracking as the number of aircraft in any Indo-Pak scenario would be limited (certainly less than 200-300 or less in the air at a time). As such having a full 360 degree coverage, aside from bragging rights, does not make or break the deal for the PAF. Had this been a major concern for the PAF, they would have gone for the Hawkeye 2000 on offer by the US with its full 360 degree coverage.
 
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two more links
Sweden Finalizes AEW&C Contract With Pakistan
“The Ericsson PS-890 Erieye radar uses an active array with 200 solid state modules. The range of the S-band, 3 GHz, and side looking radar is 300 km. The 1,985-lb (900-kg) dorsal antenna is housed in a 29-ft 6.3-in (9-m) long box radome mounted atop the fuselage. Utilizing adaptive side lobe suppression, the look angle on each side is about 160 degrees. From its standard operational altitude of 6000 metres (19,685 feet, or FL200) the radar has a maximum range of 450 km (279 miles). Against a fighter-sized target effective range is approximately 330 km (205 miles). Seaborne targets can be detected at 320 km (198 miles), though this is a function of the aircraft’s cruising height. The electronically scanned antenna can scan sectors of interest frequently while others are monitored, and a single sector can be scanned in different modes at the same time
Erieye radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
SAAB S100B AEW&C Argus

First link is close to the reality

S-100 had a coverage area of around 120deg i.e. total coverage 240 deg coverage

EMB-145 had it increased to 150 deg i.e. total coverage of 300deg

Saab-2000 had it increased to 160deg i.e. total coverage of 320 deg

Any radar coverage beyond 320 deg (20 deg at front and 20 deg at back) have degraded capability to detect the aircrafts

As per Jane's Avionics ( again information is about the older versions of Erieye AEW&C)

It is understood that Erieye has some ability to detect aircraft in the 30° sectors fore and aft of the aircraft heading, but has no track capability in this sector.
 
First link is close to the reality

S-100 had a coverage area of around 120deg i.e. total coverage 240 deg coverage

EMB-145 had it increased to 150 deg i.e. total coverage of 300deg

Saab-2000 had it increased to 160deg i.e. total coverage of 320 deg

Any radar coverage beyond 320 deg (20 deg at front and 20 deg at back) have degraded capability to detect the aircrafts

As per Jane's Avionics ( again information is about the older versions of Erieye AEW&C)

It is understood that Erieye has some ability to detect aircraft in the 30° sectors fore and aft of the aircraft heading, but has no track capability in this sector.

it has radar signal detection sensor at wing tip and at nose and rear so if the aircraft is in blind area but its radar is on it can detect
all in all it has 360 deg detection but only 300 or 320 deg tracking capability
:pakistan::pakistan:
 
Well it won't be not much hard to place a radar in the nose of the Saab-2000 thus making it see in the forward section also, and if you look at the nose of the Saab-2000 nose, it seems different, suggesting that it may also be housing an AESA radar, so the top linear one will look on the sideways, the one if housed in the nose will look forward in areas where the side ones can't and why can't a radar be placed in the back, thus giving it a 360 degree coverage.

I do hope experts may clear it up, but i believe it is possible as they can separately do the job and then sent the information to the console screens where each person can monitor his area of responsibility.





No its not an AESA, just a RockwellCollins WXR-840, a humble weather radar, but it pretty closely resembles the concept you are trying to explain.
 
Why even this obsession with the front/rear angle of the erieye radar? The ESM still detects and tracks anything that emits signals 360deg around the aircraft. Such as jeeps and drones using a comradio or a enemy aircraft or ship using his radar.

In fact the SIGINT/ESM kit should not be easily overlooked considering the geographical conditions over there. The HES-21 ESM/RWR functions 360d without (or with) the Erieye. The PAF can fly totally passive SIGINT missions if they choose to.

It's also nice to have a weather radar...
 
Debate in this thread reminds me of the Middle Ages theological debate about “how many thousand angels can stand on the point of a needle”.

Primarily function of an AWAC aircraft is to provide early detection, so that you get more time to take defensive counter measures; additionally you are able to have Radar coverage even if all the ground based Radars are destroyed as happened to Iraqis during the Gulf war.

Let us also not forget that Pakistan has dearth of foreign exchange therefore PAF cannot indulge in one upmanship with India as IAF has the habit of doing. PAF system may not be the best or as good as Israeli Phalcon being acquired by India, so what? Would it really matter a lot in the fog of War? AWACS are not fighters that they should be compared on one to one basis.

Million dollar question remains whether 4 SAAB 2000 Eireye AEW&C aircrafts are good enough and sufficient in number to provide Pakistan with a credible early warning and control system in the event of war? For the time being, PAF thinks so.
 
I am curious as to why Pakistan chose the SAAB 2000 over the Embraer 145. I know the PAF mentioned that they were not happy with the Embraer 145 in hot and high conditions. However, Brazil and Mexico have these types of weather condition and bought the ERIEYE on the Embraer 145 platform. Also India has (is?) purchased the Embraer 145 jet for its home grown AWACS. Also the SAAB 2000 does not have inflight refueling that can limit its loiter capability.

Have a happy new year!
 
Why even this obsession with the front/rear angle of the erieye radar? The ESM still detects and tracks anything that emits signals 360deg around the aircraft. Such as jeeps and drones using a comradio or a enemy aircraft or ship using his radar.

In fact the SIGINT/ESM kit should not be easily overlooked considering the geographical conditions over there. The HES-21 ESM/RWR functions 360d without (or with) the Erieye. The PAF can fly totally passive SIGINT missions if they choose to.

It's also nice to have a weather radar...

Are you serious? If I had an asset worth a quarter of a billion $'s up in the skies I'd want to know about every little thing heading my way.
RWR is good when the Erieye is illuminated by a hostile, but if that were to ever happen then the Erieye is already in great peril.
Let's face it, and please don't try to sugar coat it with ESM/RWR and SIGINT the lack of 360° coverage is a weakness of the Erieye system – a weakness that could prove fatal for the Erieye in the India / Pakistan scenario.
 
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