Pakistanis of Greeks and Macedonians Descent

[SrNair]

and I just looked at the thread title. How does this thread have anything to do with Indian's. I mean I am curious? It is about Pakistani's and Greek connection. Whether there is any or not has no bearing on Indian's so why are they dive bombing this thread.

If some Indian opened a thread about Indian and thier connection and if they limited themselves to their turf I would not expect any Pakistani to get involved. That would be Indian internal debate. so what gives with you guy's knocking around here?

And we didnt ask you to drag our South Indians languages in to your post .Go and read it again.

 

[Levina]

It's not alien to us. It's used daily by everyone but if someone typed here indus for convenience, doesn't make us forget the original

Glad!
Frankly speaking I've never seen a Pakistani member(atleast on this forum) use the word sindhu, the word commonly used for sindhu river is Indus.
I do feel offended when ppl in my country use the word ganges for Ganga, I believe in NOT using evangelized names and ergo I was flummoxed by the frequent use of the word Indus by your countrymen.

 

[Armstrong]

Glad!
Frankly speaking I've never seen a Pakistani member(atleast on this forum) use the word sindhu, the word commonly used for sindhu river is Indus.
I do feel offended when ppl in my country use the word ganges for Ganga, I believe in NOT using evangelized names and ergo I was flummoxed by the frequent use of the word Indus by your countrymen.

Aaap ka Ganges River seh kiya taluq ? Woh kaun sa South Indian seh guzartaa haii ?

I bet you don't even know how to swim but because of your fatness you have enough buoyancy to float !

And we usually call it Darya-e-Sindh neither Indus nor Sindhu !

 

[Levina]

And we usually call it Darya-e-Sindh neither Indus nor Sindhu !

I know!
I had posted a screen shot in the previous page

 

[IrbiS]

Glad!
Frankly speaking I've never seen a Pakistani member(atleast on this forum) use the word sindhu, the word commonly used for sindhu river is Indus.
I do feel offended when ppl in my country use the word ganges for Ganga, I believe in NOT using evangelized names and ergo I was flummoxed by the frequent use of the word Indus by your countrymen.

If one knows when to use the original and when to use the imported, then it's fine and thankfully most of us know. Even I would used indus here for ease, and secondly you don't have to explain latter to someone online who doesn't know that that we call indus, Darya - e - Sindh. Since moving from Afghanistan, we've long lived by it's banks

 

[B+ Dracula]

you're making the same mistake that many Pakistanis make - do not equivocate Pakistan and India. The name India as you know came from Indus. If you want to know if that is ancient, your favorite greeks referred to its people as Indoi. There was a reason Columbus set sail to ....that's right INDIA! There was a reason Brits started a company called ....wait for it.....E.INDIA Company! and all that happened before 1947.

Come on you know all this! R u messing with me?

Word "INDIA" itself need to trace its root back in Real World....quoting WESTERN Literature is not enough........a word they used to represent some UNKNOWN lala land...like in this case area beyond the Indus river ....West BRANDED that word everywhere .... from Red Indians to West-Indians then Indians.....its a Joke man
.
I've never witness Indians to be proud of Ganges Civilization.....but on the other hand .... I always find Indian members involve in Plagiarizing INDUS VALLEY as their own

@SrNair
Look how they've forgotten their own culture. They still use names like INDUS,originally coined by some foreigners, sindhu or darya-e-sindh is alien to them.

Not true as in?
Is the word sindh still prevalent??
As far as I know the word "Sindhu" or "Sindh" is still the local appellation of the Indus River.

View attachment 225414

With Respect,
In slang Urdu...we always use the word "Darya e Sind" to mention that river...I dont know how you get that impression we use term INDUS RIVER... But if we "DO" then it is our right...miss

a) It is our river (it falls in our territory)...whether we call it "ABC/XYZ" it up to us to call whatever we like

b) It wont give Right to our neighbours to take that name away from us without our consent by twisting some words like a BUBBLE GUM

c) Taj-Mahal lie in AGRA....so it is up to you to call it "TEJU-MAHAL" or else....Which right now RSS fanatics are demanding to alter its pristine name....and convert it into HINDU-MANDER......sooner or later that development will take place....bcoz right now its a HighProfile issue in your MEDIA

d) You people did alter the names of old city like Bombay to Mumbai etc etc

my point is.....it's your right to call the names of city whatever you like bcoz they fall in your territory but flicking the name from neighbor territory would be termed as inappropriate practice & INJUSTICE

 

[faisal6309]

If Alexander's army was eager to get back home then why some of them stopped in Kalash valley?? This doesn't make sense. I have read that Some soldiers of Alexander's army went back home before Battle of Hydaspes. May be they were lost and went to Kalash but it doesn't mean that they were greeks. They might be Persian soldiers of Alexander's army. Alexander's empire was split into 4 pieces.
Errors in Alexander's History
As @Atanz said before that an arrow injury during Battle of Hydaspes led to Alexander's death.
Another theory is that an arrow injury sustained during the siege attack of Malhi (Multan) by Alexander later led to his death.
On another webpage, it say that after his army's refusal to continue marching east at the Hyphasis River in 326 BC, Alexander the Great crossed the area after sailing south to the coast of the Indian Ocean on his way back to Babylon.
Yet another webpage say that the Beas River marks the eastern-most border of Alexander the Great's conquests in 326 BC. It was one of the rivers which created problems in Alexander's invasion of India. His troops mutinied here in 326 BCE, refusing to go any further; they had been away from home for eight years. Alexander shut himself in his tent for three days, but when his men did not change their desires he gave in, raising twelve colossal altars to mark the limit and glory of his expedition.
Funny thing about these words is that they are copied from Wikipedia pages with western references.
It doesn't make any sense. If he u sed sea way to reach babylon then how Kalash people met Alexander and its army? Also they were travelling through road all the time, so where did they get ships? Also old maps of his time show that sea of egypt and India are connected then why didn't they go straight back to Greek? Didn't his army refused to go to babylon this time? Also the most known world was dry land not seas. How did they knew that this sea will take them to Babylon? Alexander's history is full of errors.

As I said before:

Strabo, the Greek historian wrote: “Generally speaking, the men who have written on the affairs of India were a set of liars…Of this we became the more convinced whilst writing the history of Alexander.”​

 

[Levina]

it's your right to call the names of city whatever you like bcoz they fall in your territory but flicking the name from neighbor territory would be termed as inappropriate practice & INJUSTICE

The point is you 're using a name coined by foreigners and you cant deny it!!

We have changed names of our cities like Mumbai, Chennai and Kolkatta because we did not want to live in our colonial past.
The reason why we dont call Taj mahal as Tejo mahal is because Taj mahal is not a name coined by foreigners.

 

[Porus]

Then there was no need of this thread in a DEFENCE FORUM . Why and What is the use of this thread? First tell me that. People who are suffering from Identity crisis come up with such Idea and those who favor this are more infected.

What has Greeks to do with current situation of Pakistan. Or being close to greeks in genetics will help you any where?

What is there to be happy about if some one is close to greek looks? I don't understand the logic at all.

1) they are close to greek looks but they are Pakistani
2) they have light skin so they are Pakistanis
3) Pakistan is different from India because in India its Ganga Hindu Baniya and In Pakistan its Jhelum Indus, and Mohenjodaro, and greek looking people?

Well I am a Pakistani too and on streets of Lahore I can show you so many who have ancestry in India.


Note: Having greek ancestry is to be felt proud. Having Indian ancestry is inferior.

Koi sar pair hi nai hai!!

The English colonialists cooked up these stories to give their colonization of this area another justification. I am sure hardly anybody had ever heard of Alexander in Kalash, or anywhere else in Pakistan, before the British started to propagate their theory. The real fight has been going on between the Republic of Macedonia and Greece and these people have been sucked into this fight for no reason. Neither is there any genetic support for their Greek origin, nor any link between Kalash and Greek language has been ever established. Even during the times of Alexander the Greek were not famous for being blonde and blue eyed people, whereas blue eyes and blonde hair are quite common among Kalash / Kafiristani (now known as Nuristani in Afghanistan after they were forcefully converted to Islam by Abdur Rahman) people. The Kalash people are probably the remnants of the earliest waves of the Indo-European people. because of their complete isolation they have managed to retain their original physical characteristics. Having a Greek ancestry and taking pride in it makes anybody less Pakistani? I personally don't think so.

 

[Shan-e-ibrahim]

If Alexander's army was eager to get back home then why some of them stopped in Kalash valley?? This doesn't make sense. I have read that Some soldiers of Alexander's army went back home before Battle of Hydaspes. May be they were lost and went to Kalash but it doesn't mean that they were greeks. They might be Persian soldiers of Alexander's army. Alexander's empire was split into 4 pieces.
Errors in Alexander's History
As @Atanz said before that an arrow injury during Battle of Hydaspes led to Alexander's death.
Another theory is that an arrow injury sustained during the siege attack of Malhi (Multan) by Alexander later led to his death.
On another webpage, it say that after his army's refusal to continue marching east at the Hyphasis River in 326 BC, Alexander the Great crossed the area after sailing south to the coast of the Indian Ocean on his way back to Babylon.
Yet another webpage say that the Beas River marks the eastern-most border of Alexander the Great's conquests in 326 BC. It was one of the rivers which created problems in Alexander's invasion of India. His troops mutinied here in 326 BCE, refusing to go any further; they had been away from home for eight years. Alexander shut himself in his tent for three days, but when his men did not change their desires he gave in, raising twelve colossal altars to mark the limit and glory of his expedition.
Funny thing about these words is that they are copied from Wikipedia pages with western references.
It doesn't make any sense. If he u sed sea way to reach babylon then how Kalash people met Alexander and its army? Also they were travelling through road all the time, so where did they get ships? Also old maps of his time show that sea of egypt and India are connected then why didn't they go straight back to Greek? Didn't his army refused to go to babylon this time? Also the most known world was dry land not seas. How did they knew that this sea will take them to Babylon? Alexander's history is full of errors.

As I said before:

Strabo, the Greek historian wrote: “Generally speaking, the men who have written on the affairs of India were a set of liars…Of this we became the more convinced whilst writing the history of Alexander.”​

Again a super blow to these white wannabes. There is no valid proof at all that.

Even Shahnama by Firdous says Alexander was humiliated by our kingdoms badly. Hence out of fear he returned.

The English colonialists cooked up these stories to give their colonization of this area another justification. I am sure hardly anybody had ever heard of Alexander in Kalash, or anywhere else in Pakistan, before the British started to propagate their theory. The real fight has been going on between the Republic of Macedonia and Greece and these people have been sucked into this fight for no reason. Neither is there any genetic support for their Greek origin, nor any link between Kalash and Greek language has been ever established. Even during the times of Alexander the Greek were not famous for being blonde and blue eyed people, whereas blue eyes and blonde hair are quite common among Kalash / Kafiristani (now known as Nuristani in Afghanistan after they were forcefully converted to Islam by Abdur Rahman) people. The Kalash people are probably the remnants of the earliest waves of the Indo-European people. because of their complete isolation they have managed to retain their original physical characteristics. Having a Greek ancestry and taking pride in it makes anybody less Pakistani? I personally don't think so.

The point is not in having pride in greek hereditary , the point is about IDENTITY CRISIS. Out of this context only conflicts arise. We are 99% similar to Chimps genetically and that 1% change makes us human. And we are fighting for that 10% of this 1%. Shame full.




Greek neo-Nazis on trial for murdering Pakistani immigrant

 

[Tiger Genie]

Word "INDIA" itself need to trace its root back in Real World....quoting WESTERN Literature is not enough........a word they used to represent some UNKNOWN lala land...like in this case area beyond the Indus river ....West BRANDED that word everywhere .... from Red Indians to West-Indians then Indians.....its a Joke man
.
I've never witness Indians to be proud of Ganges Civilization.....but on the other hand .... I always find Indian members involve in Plagiarizing INDUS VALLEY as their own

even for you that is a desperate stretch in futility! Red Indians were callled that because they were found in the land that the expedition to INDIA landed in! Similar is the actual reasoning for West Indies....you ended up proving my point...actually disproving yours.

Secondly, your NOT 'witnessing Indians to be proud of Ganges Civilization' is to do with your inadequacies compounded by the general fact that the most of India was seen as one culture (Sattvic/Vedic/Hindu....) within which empires and kingdoms existed ...which became known as Indus because the Saraswathi river was not known initially to the westerners. Thus once again you end up disproving your own point.

You should really ask yourself why everything you say ends up disproving your stand. That is because your stand is wrong, ill-founded and ill motivated.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

Alexander massacred any Greek he found in former Persian Empire, which included modern Pakistan, since they have supported Persia against Macedonia. The whole idea of Greek genes in Pakistani people has no scientific proof.

Megas Alexandros: Alexander Meeting the Branchidae on his march to Maracanda (Central Asia 5)

Alexander Meeting the Branchidae on his march to Maracanda (Central Asia 5)

[4 - Encounter with the Branchidae, emigrants from Miletus which Alexander massacred because of treason.]

Alexander first arrived in Maracanda in late June 329 BC in pursuit of Bessus who had proclaimed himself to King Artaxerxes V after killing Darius III. On his way, he unexpectedly met a group of Greek speaking people and was told that they were the Branchidae, a group of emigrants who had fled Miletus a good hundred years before.



In the 5th century BC, the Branchidae ruled the Temple of Apollo in Didyma (which belonged to Miletus). They were in charge of the temple's money and during Xerxes’ conquests of Greece, taking their responsibilities seriously they refused at first to hand over this money, but eventually they gave in – meaning in fact that they took the side of Persia. When the Greeks came out victorious from that Persian War in 479 BC, the Branchidae had reason enough to fear revenge from their compatriots. Their pro-Persian attitude forced them to ask for Persian protection and that is how the Branchidae packed their belongings and migrated east to Central Asia – the end of the world as was generally accepted.

As a consequence, the Temple of Apollo in Didyma was left unattended, the sacred waters dried up and the oracle fell silent, till Alexander arrived there in 331 BC on his way from Miletus to Halicarnassus. He always had deep respect for the gods and maybe more so for the oracles. When he visited the temple, history tells us that the sacred waters started to flow again. With the spring, the oracle came back to life and as we know the first prophecy went directly to Alexander predicting his victory in Gaugamela and the death of Darius III.

But this happened two years ago and many many miles before … Now Alexander finds himself in the middle of Central Asia and is happily welcomed by Greek-speaking people. Curtius remarks that although the Branchidae have maintained their ancestral customs, they had already degenerated from their native tongue and had become bilingual (which is exactly what happens to Bactria after Alexander’s death where it takes about that same time for the population to become “Hellenized”). To the men in the army, it must have felt like a home-coming so far from home and initially the surrender of the Branchidae is generally accepted, till many feel that the Pan-Hellenic cause has been betrayed. Arrian, strangely enough, does not mention this episode, but the facts have been reported by Callisthenes who was present at that time. He wrote that after the festivities and warm welcomes, Alexander gave orders to kill the entire population, raze their town to the ground and even uproot the trees and vines, burning the very roots. What the Branchidae had done was considered as betrayal of their country and what it stood for, maybe even sacrilege.



I look around at the desolate terrain with sparse houses, some cattle roaming freely over the dusty lands. A few trees, some green shrubs where water must be flowing, not very enticing. The Branchidae must have found a good location, an oasis with plenty of water for their crops. I wonder if we will ever find any trace of this paradisiacal setting where such atrocities have happened.

 

[B+ Dracula]

The point is you 're using a name coined by foreigners and you cant deny it!!

We have changed names of our cities like Mumbai, Chennai and Kolkatta because we did not want to live in our colonial past.
The reason why we dont call Taj mahal as Tejo mahal is because Taj mahal is not a name coined by foreigners.

Dear Senior member, unfortunately your elders forgot renaming INDIA ...while they found busy in renaming Old Muslim city names to get rid of their PAST

GOD knows, they wanna pay tribute to Queen Victoria by preserving 2 Souvenirs for next generations to come

a) by Retaining name of "INDIA"

b) by retaining Viceroy of Queen Victoria as First Governer General of Independent India (after partition) ....on the other hand...Pakistan spurn him with contempt ....which resulted in great loss of KASHMIR....but we never compromised our integrity in the hands of Queens Viceroy

BBC - History - Historic Figures: Lord Louis Mountbatten (1900 - 1979)

----------------------

even for you that is a desperate stretch in futility! Red Indians were callled that because they were found in the land that the expedition to INDIA landed in! Similar is the actual reasoning for West Indies....you ended up proving my point...actually disproving yours.

Secondly, your NOT 'witnessing Indians to be proud of Ganges Civilization' is to do with your inadequacies compounded by the general fact that the most of India was seen as one culture (Sattvic/Vedic/Hindu....) within which empires and kingdoms existed ...which became known as Indus because the Saraswathi river was not known initially to the westerners. Thus once again you end up disproving your own point.

You should really ask yourself why everything you say ends up disproving your stand. That is because your stand is wrong, ill-founded and ill motivated.

my dear Indian fellow...Namasty
.
I have no idea how i ended up futile...I'am unable to conclude YOUR logic from above post
.
West branded every nation they founded on their SHIP-VOYAGE as INDIAN....it depicts their weak mental approach....and lack of understanding about the Geography......But that SIN on their part is forgivable.....bcoz they're not the ones to issue certificates of ETYMOLOGY of any NATION
.
Unfortunately, leaders from India..failed to convince Britishers about their unique distinct past....and put all of their weight on western manuscript of "how they conceive india"....instead of proving your own Ancient Heritage....that my friend is suicidal...which right now in the heat of argument you failed to understand

 

[django]

The English colonialists cooked up these stories to give their colonization of this area another justification. I am sure hardly anybody had ever heard of Alexander in Kalash, or anywhere else in Pakistan, before the British started to propagate their theory. The real fight has been going on between the Republic of Macedonia and Greece and these people have been sucked into this fight for no reason. Neither is there any genetic support for their Greek origin, nor any link between Kalash and Greek language has been ever established. Even during the times of Alexander the Greek were not famous for being blonde and blue eyed people, whereas blue eyes and blonde hair are quite common among Kalash / Kafiristani (now known as Nuristani in Afghanistan after they were forcefully converted to Islam by Abdur Rahman) people. The Kalash people are probably the remnants of the earliest waves of the Indo-European people. because of their complete isolation they have managed to retain their original physical characteristics. Having a Greek ancestry and taking pride in it makes anybody less Pakistani? I personally don't think so.

I have traveled their, many folks have red and blond hair, but then though I have never been to Tora Bora the folks I know from their also have these traits, are Macedons and Greeks going to start a campaign to claim the pashtuns as their own as some ill informed jews already have.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

I have traveled their, many folks have red and blond hair, but then though I have never been to Tora Bora the folks I know from their also have these traits,

They are not Greeks and it has been proved scientifically by DNA testing. The British created this myth to prove European superiority. White people are gone but left some Brown idiots that repeat lies like parrots.