Pakistani suicide bomber held at Punjab border

[kumar_V1.0]

Very hard to believe , cuz Indian never share any intelligence with Pak. Thats the reason, Pak ignore Indian concerns. Until or unless culprit is not identified by Pak, its hard to control the situation. Problem with India first they publish the report , that means in advance Indian authorties give heads up to concerning terrorist organization about their achievement, so they look for different areas to explore.If the the news is real.....thats sad and Indian security forces should be controlled by the govt, not by media. Or top brass should control their enthusiasm to publish their achievements for promotion.
And if this guy is innocent and cross the unmarked area mistakenly, which happened alot. That means he might lose his life to prove Indian armed forces report correct?...just like before many times.

Haider Sir,

They dont share intelligence as there is lack of confidence. The insurgents get help from Pakistan regular army to cross over. The day it stops there should be no problems in any sharing mechanism.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Haider Sir,

They dont share intelligence as there is lack of confidence. The insurgents get help from Pakistan regular army to cross over. The day it stops there should be no problems in any sharing mechanism.

That was true as of several years ago.

The PA stopped assisting insurgents cross over when the dialog with India under Musharraf's regime started, and the result has been the dramatic drop in insurgent activity both within IoK and cross-LoC infiltration. Pakistan's policy to prevent cross-LoC infiltration and assist in reducing the insurgency was recognized by Abdullah in IoK as well.

The Indian Army in all likelihood just pulls these '1000 insurgents ready on launching pads in AK' out of its as*S as a propaganda effort to avoid giving credit to Pakistan for its efforts and continue to brainwash Indians into seeing Pakistan as supporting the insurgency.

We have been hearing about these 'hundreds of insurgents on launching pads' stories for years now, without a major infiltration attempt of that size occurring, which clearly shows these are primarily manufactured reports.

 

[Balance]

These fences have been installed for the very exact purpose of stopping illegal cross border movement, and if they don't serve that purpose, wht is their use then.

And if you look at those fences, it isn't very easy to penetrate them, otherwise we would have not been seeing such stories once in a while or rarely. It would have been happening each and every day or week.

And the Cross Border infiltration is not on this border area of Punjab, it allegedly happens in the Indian Occupied Kashmir border.


I am amazed that you guys have not even proper idea of your own border fencing.

Yes there are fences. But militants often dig their way under the fences. This has happened before and IA has found many such underground tunnels.

 

[Balance]

Now this is both stupid and lame, and strange also.

i never knew that suicide bombers also cary out recce of the area themselves. Previously they have been shown the target and kaboom, there they go to heaven!!

i wonder how would he 'cross' the fence under the 'watchful' eyes of BSF? What's the fun in apprehending him if he has crossed over, i think BSF's responsibility is to STOP in infiltration, i mean something preemptive of the sort!!

The strangest thing is that what exactly was he up to when he crossed over? He was not planning to blow himself up at the border? What he could see from inside the fence, could also be seen from the other side of the border!! No signal equipment, no satellite phone, no weapon, no explosive, i mean was he there on a picnic or may be he was there to be caught?! How would he pass back info if he had been there for reconnaissance? Telepathy, may be?

Terrorists and their equipments do not necessarily come together.

And even if he was planned to be picked up the next day, i wonder what 'huge' amount of info he would have gathered in that one night? i am not sure if Delhi gate is visible from that point of border??

Nothing is done in one night. Neither they get any 'huge' info, nor BSF catches them in such a short period.

 

[Balance]

Very hard to believe , cuz Indian never share any intelligence with Pak. Thats the reason, Pak ignore Indian concerns. Until or unless culprit is not identified by Pak, its hard to control the situation. Problem with India first they publish the report , that means in advance Indian authorties give heads up to concerning terrorist organization about their achievement, so they look for different areas to explore.If the the news is real.....thats sad and Indian security forces should be controlled by the govt, not by media. Or top brass should control their enthusiasm to publish their achievements for promotion.
And if this guy is innocent and cross the unmarked area mistakenly, which happened alot. That means he might lose his life to prove Indian armed forces report correct?...just like before many times.

Do you really think that such things are done without any strategy and thinking behind them?

 

[Balance]

That was true as of several years ago.

The PA stopped assisting insurgents cross over when the dialog with India under Musharraf's regime started, and the result has been the dramatic drop in insurgent activity both within IoK and cross-LoC infiltration. Pakistan's policy to prevent cross-LoC infiltration and assist in reducing the insurgency was recognized by Abdullah in IoK as well.

The Indian Army in all likelihood just pulls these '1000 insurgents ready on launching pads in AK' out of its as*S as a propaganda effort to avoid giving credit to Pakistan for its efforts and continue to brainwash Indians into seeing Pakistan as supporting the insurgency.

We have been hearing about these 'hundreds of insurgents on launching pads' stories for years now, without a major infiltration attempt of that size occurring, which clearly shows these are primarily manufactured reports.

Pakistan has done it before, naturally it will take time to build some trust. Years are very short time when talking about nations. And yes, the efforts are one-way because it's Pakistan's responsibility.

 

[kumar_V1.0]

That was true as of several years ago.

The PA stopped assisting insurgents cross over when the dialog with India under Musharraf's regime started, and the result has been the dramatic drop in insurgent activity both within IoK and cross-LoC infiltration. Pakistan's policy to prevent cross-LoC infiltration and assist in reducing the insurgency was recognized by Abdullah in IoK as well.

The Indian Army in all likelihood just pulls these '1000 insurgents ready on launching pads in AK' out of its as*S as a propaganda effort to avoid giving credit to Pakistan for its efforts and continue to brainwash Indians into seeing Pakistan as supporting the insurgency.

We have been hearing about these 'hundreds of insurgents on launching pads' stories for years now, without a major infiltration attempt of that size occurring, which clearly shows these are primarily manufactured reports.

Yes it has decreased in recent years not denying that.

But still now and then infiltration attempts take place and also rangers try to support them by firing etc. So for this matter ball is in pakistan court to raise confidence.

 

[Naradmuni]

That was true as of several years ago.

The PA stopped assisting insurgents cross over when the dialog with India under Musharraf's regime started, and the result has been the dramatic drop in insurgent activity both within IoK and cross-LoC infiltration. Pakistan's policy to prevent cross-LoC infiltration and assist in reducing the insurgency was recognized by Abdullah in IoK as well.

The Indian Army in all likelihood just pulls these '1000 insurgents ready on launching pads in AK' out of its as*S as a propaganda effort to avoid giving credit to Pakistan for its efforts and continue to brainwash Indians into seeing Pakistan as supporting the insurgency.

We have been hearing about these 'hundreds of insurgents on launching pads' stories for years now, without a major infiltration attempt of that size occurring, which clearly shows these are primarily manufactured reports.

Total BS. Can you please explain why does PA breaches the ceasefire (10 times in 2009) almost simultaneously when there is a big attempt by the so called mujhahiddens to infiltrate in India??

PA gives Cover Fire to infiltrators while crossing over to India. Recently PA killed an Indian soldier while fighting against infiltrators (see below). Nothing has changed for PA so far and the dramatic drop in violence is not due to the mercy of PA but its inability to deliver on the Indian front because of its engagement in internal mess, plus the US pressure following the 26/11, plus the new homeland security measures of P Chidambaram and a little bit of luck as well.


BBC REPORT:


" The Indian army described Monday evening's incident as "yet another violation of ceasefire" agreed between India and Pakistan in November 2003.

The fire hit the post guarded by BSF soldiers, Indian army officials said, adding that the Indian soldiers returned fire.

The incident happened in the Sabzian area in Poonch along the Line of Control (LoC) about 240 km north-west of Jammu.

Indian security forces said they had foiled a "fourth attempt by militants" to infiltrate the international border in Indian-administered Kashmir since the beginning of January.

India accuses Pakistani troops of cross-border firing to help militants cross the disputed border to join the 20-year revolt in Kashmir and violate a 2003 agreement reached between the two armies. "

 

[Xeric]

Yes there are fences. But militants often dig their way under the fences. This has happened before and IA has found many such underground tunnels.

Guud idea, thanx...

 

[Xeric]

Yes it has decreased in recent years not denying that.

But still now and then infiltration attempts take place and also rangers try to support them by firing etc. So for this matter ball is in pakistan court to raise confidence.

If they can get across a heavily manned electrified double story (deliberately not using the military name) fence, our Rangers is already too tired!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yes it has decreased in recent years not denying that.

But still now and then infiltration attempts take place and also rangers try to support them by firing etc. So for this matter ball is in pakistan court to raise confidence.

'Now and then infiltration' is impossible to eliminate given the terrain and the festering dispute that continues to offer a cause of 'fighting Indian occupation' to some people. The US cannot stop infiltration across the US-Mexico border, nor is it possible to stop cross border infiltration across the Afghan-Pak border, so to argue that the few attempts that do take place are because of the PA is an unsubstantiated accusation.

If the PA was interested in infiltrating people, you would not see 'now and then' half-hearted attempts. We would be back to the nineties.

My point in my previous post stands.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Total BS. Can you please explain why does PA breaches the ceasefire (10 times in 2009) almost simultaneously when there is a big attempt by the so called mujhahiddens to infiltrate in India??

PA gives Cover Fire to infiltrators while crossing over to India. Recently PA killed an Indian soldier while fighting against infiltrators (see below).

BBC REPORT:


" The Indian army described Monday evening's incident as "yet another violation of ceasefire" agreed between India and Pakistan in November 2003.

The fire hit the post guarded by BSF soldiers, Indian army officials said, adding that the Indian soldiers returned fire.

The incident happened in the Sabzian area in Poonch along the Line of Control (LoC) about 240 km north-west of Jammu.

Indian security forces said they had foiled a "fourth attempt by militants" to infiltrate the international border in Indian-administered Kashmir since the beginning of January.

India accuses Pakistani troops of cross-border firing to help militants cross the disputed border to join the 20-year revolt in Kashmir and violate a 2003 agreement reached between the two armies. "

This is along the lines of the concocted statements of 'thousands of militants waiting on launching pads in AK' that the Indian Military has been making for the past several years. The BBC is merely reporting on what the Indian military said.

The IA says it was the PA that fired first, perhaps it was the IA that fired first, the PA certainly denied doing it, or perhaps it was some potential infiltrators that fired on the IA and the IA chose to blame Pakistan because that is what it does best - propaganda to continue brainwashing Indians to hate Pakistan.

The fact remains that the attempted infiltrations are a far cry from the 'thousands of militants waiting on launch pads' that the IA has been claiming for years. Facts don't back up IA statements.

Nothing has changed for PA so far and the dramatic drop in violence is not due to the mercy of PA but its inability to deliver on the Indian front because of its engagement in internal mess, plus the US pressure following the 26/11, plus the new homeland security measures of P Chidambaram and a little bit of luck as well.

Nonsense - you have no idea what you are talking about. The huge drop in cross-loc infiltrations and the downturn in the insurgency took place long before the Mumbai attacks, in the Musharraf years, and contributed to the back-channel dialog that almost brought about a degree of normalization in Indo-Pak relations and was discontinued after Mumbai.

If anything, since the instability in Pakistan has risen post 2007, there was a slight uptick in infiltration attempts in 2008-2009 (post Mumbai), but even then a far cry from the nineties. Indian would not be thinking about removing tens of thousands of troops from Kashmir and people like Abdullah not commending Pakistan for its role in restoring peace were Pakistan still actively supporting the insurgency.

The problem with people like you is that you cannot accept the above since it involves giving Pakistan credit for taking steps towards peace, and you have been so brainwashed into hatred for Pakistan that such a thought is unacceptable for you lot. The Indian government has done a good job brainwashing a large section of India with lies and distortions, and these periodic statements of 'PA violated ceasefire and thousands of militants on launching pads' are lies designed to perpetuate Indian propaganda.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

This is along the lines of the concocted statements of 'thousands of militants waiting on launching pads in AK' that the Indian Military has been making for the past several years. The BBC is merely reporting on what the Indian military said.

The IA says it was the PA that fired first, perhaps it was the IA that fired first, the PA certainly denied doing it, or perhaps it was some potential infiltrators that fired on the IA and the IA chose to blame Pakistan because that is what it does best - propaganda to continue brainwashing Indians to hate Pakistan.

The fact remains that the attempted infiltrations are a far cry from the 'thousands of militants waiting on launch pads' that the IA has been claiming for years. Facts don't back up IA statements.



Nonsense - you have no idea what you are talking about. The huge drop in cross-loc infiltrations and the downturn in the insurgency took place long before the Mumbai attacks, in the Musharraf years, and contributed to the back-channel dialog that almost brought about a degree of normalization in Indo-Pak relations and was discontinued after Mumbai.

If anything, since the instability in Pakistan has risen post 2007, there was a slight uptick in infiltration attempts in 2008-2009 (post Mumbai), but even then a far cry from the nineties. Indian would not be thinking about removing tens of thousands of troops from Kashmir and people like Abdullah not commending Pakistan for its role in restoring peace were Pakistan still actively supporting the insurgency.

The problem with people like you is that you cannot accept the above since it involves giving Pakistan credit for taking steps towards peace, and you have been so brainwashed into hatred for Pakistan that such a thought is unacceptable for you lot. The Indian government has done a good job brainwashing a large section of India with lies and distortions, and these periodic statements of 'PA violated ceasefire and thousands of militants on launching pads' are lies designed to perpetuate Indian propaganda.

Agreed!
During Musharaf's era the cross border infiltration was minimized!
but what did we achieve by that?
India stabbed us through Afghanistan..

Who was more capable..

Musharaf's peace song?
or Indians double game..

I know agencies don't stop their work but it is a fact that cross border movement was minimized and still we were stabbed..

Aman ki Asha..

I don't oppose Aman k asha but can you guarantee that India will cooperate..
Now "secular" minded Pakistani people will think that we are illiterate, conservative and whatnot..

but it is a FACT that we were always stabbed!

be careful with Aman ki Asha...
if it succeeds we will have irreversible effects...

 

[Naradmuni]

The problem with people like you is that you cannot accept the above since it involves giving Pakistan credit for taking steps towards peace, and you have been so brainwashed into hatred for Pakistan that such a thought is unacceptable for you lot. The Indian government has done a good job brainwashing a large section of India with lies and distortions, and these periodic statements of 'PA violated ceasefire and thousands of militants on launching pads' are lies designed to perpetuate Indian propaganda.

No sir. I have seen the cases. Lets take for example Kasab. Right from the FO, the NSA, the Foreign minister, the PM and the President denied that kasab is pakistani, they even go on to deny that the kasabs village does not exist in pakistans map, on the other hand, the intelligence agencies cordoing off the entire village, picking up kasabs parents from their homes overnight, not allowing media to enter the village and even removing names of kasabs family from the national database, why? Just to supress a simple embarassing fact. The fact that kasab is a pakistani was admitted by NSA first and then he was sacked for telling the truth and later this fact was admitted by sherry rehman and that too by an SMS to the reuters. Is this way a national government and establishment should behave? This is just one instance, there are many more.

This and much more is what I and people like me see through our eyes open. The pakistani establishment itself cultivates its image among Indians. No additional need for India to indulge in propaganda.

You call it systematic brainwashing by india to cultivate hatered for pakistan amongst Indians or you want to suggest that these incidences and denails never took place and it was hammered into our heads by indian authorities?

With due respect, I suspect it could be the other way round in pakistan.

 

[kumar_V1.0]

'Now and then infiltration' is impossible to eliminate given the terrain and the festering dispute that continues to offer a cause of 'fighting Indian occupation' to some people. The US cannot stop infiltration across the US-Mexico border, nor is it possible to stop cross border infiltration across the Afghan-Pak border, so to argue that the few attempts that do take place are because of the PA is an unsubstantiated accusation.

If the PA was interested in infiltrating people, you would not see 'now and then' half-hearted attempts. We would be back to the nineties.

My point in my previous post stands.

India is not US and Pakistan is not Mexico.

You yourself agreed that Pakistan has been involved in helping in infiltration . Question is whether we have enough confidence in Pakistan willing to stop insurgency and answer is still no. Decades of actions cant be switched off by pervez musharraf in a day. Whats needed is solid action from Pakistan side , crackdown on terrorist caps, my stand still is ONUS is on Pakistan.