Pakistani man carried out bombing near US consulate in Jeddah: Saudi ministry

[Nilgiri]

Let the court decide, but you are convicted out of your own mouth.

Is liquidation of a clear and present danger to security by shooting the individuals concerned after taking them into captivity legal, according to you?

If it went the way you are describing, then that is not legal at all and they must be convicted. Murdering even terrorists in cold blood (if they are not presenting an imminent threat) without due process is illegal. No question there.

But the court must give that as the final verdict after reviewing all the evidence it has (concerning nature of the imminent threat and actions taken by the police specifically). Hence I will wait for that before absolving or condemning anyone.

 

[DesiGuy1403]

If it went the way you are describing, then that is not legal at all and they must be convicted. Murdering even terrorists in cold blood (if they are not presenting an imminent threat) without due process is illegal. No question there.

But the court must give that as the final verdict after reviewing all the evidence it has. Hence I will wait for that before absolving or condemning anyone.

There is an elephant in the room we are ignoring.

Fact is, IB at that time under Congress dispensation passed on the information, on which Guj cadre acted.

It was not an operation done by Guj cadre on their own. They acted on legit IB intelligence which was passed on to them.

Like you said, let the evidence be given to courts and let them decide and give the judgement,.
BUT
The information doing rounds that they were shot in cold blood is not the truth and must be contested. Because if this lie is not uncontested, then everything else after that does not matter. Ishrat could be a terrorist who would have killed a 100 people, it won't matter to the "bleeding heart liberals" as we have seen over time.

So, the theory that it was fake encounter must be contested, otherwise, this lie will propagate and do incredible harm.

Between, these same set of people conveniently ignore and ignored IB men crying out harassment for a long time to fix Guj Police and BJP. For them, these men don't exist and their testimony is null and void.

You should read this to understand the political context of this whole thing.

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/i...enient-story-no-one-wants-to-tell-867173.html

 

[Nilgiri]

There is an elephant in the room we are ignoring.

Fact is, IB at that time under Congress dispensation passed on the information, on which Guj cadre acted.

It was not an operation done by Guj cadre on their own. They acted on legit IB intelligence which was passed on to them.

Like you said, let the evidence be given to courts and let them decide and give the judgement,.
BUT
The information doing rounds that they were shot in cold blood is not the truth and must be contested. Because if this lie is not uncontested, then everything else after that does not matter. Ishrat could be a terrorist who would have killed a 100 people, it won't matter to the "bleeding heart liberals" as we have seen over time.

So, the theory that it was fake encounter must be contested, otherwise, this lie will propagate and do incredible harm.

Between, these same set of people conveniently ignore and ignored IB men crying out harassment for a long time to fix Guj Police and BJP. For them, these men don't exist and their testimony is null and void.

You should read this to understand the political context of this whole thing.

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/i...enient-story-no-one-wants-to-tell-867173.html

Thats what I mean, all the evidence must be presented. I am well aware there is much evidence that was suppressed earlier and is now slowly coming out. I have faith in our courts to pay the whole thing its proper due diligence and get to the bottom of the matter.

Its why with any scenario, I start with "if".

 

[DesiGuy1403]

Thats what I mean, all the evidence must be presented. I am well aware there is much evidence that was suppressed earlier and is now slowly coming out. I have faith in our courts to pay the whole thing its proper due diligence and get to the bottom of the matter.

Its why with any scenario, I start with "if".

I respect that but for me, if there was a very clear intelligence of clear danger to public life, I would rather have the threat neutralized at any cost.

Once a person straps a bomb or takes a gun to harm innocents, there is only one thing that needs to be done to these people.

The worse thing about this whole fiasco by Congress was the damage done to IB. Next time there is a clear danger, why should these officers risk their lives and reputations to save some ungrateful citizens?

Just to add, these 4 were terrorists and not some thugs that the police were after.
Unlike thugs who above all would value their lives and surrender, when dealing with terrorists, the aim of catching should not be the highest priority.

We only have to look at the amount of sacrifices made to capture a single Kasab. These are not some petty thieves or thugs or run of the mill goondas.

 

[raj76]

isharat was guilty hell u want to believe congress who disapproved un and us findings in samjhota express and gave clean chit to LET

 

[Joe Shearer]

If it went the way you are describing, then that is not legal at all and they must be convicted. Murdering even terrorists in cold blood (if they are not presenting an imminent threat) without due process is illegal. No question there.

But the court must give that as the final verdict after reviewing all the evidence it has (concerning nature of the imminent threat and actions taken by the police specifically). Hence I will wait for that before absolving or condemning anyone.

Let me leave this discussion with a thought for you: have not India's complaints about various acts of terror come to Pakistani courts, time and again? Do you remember, as I do, how those courts were forced to dismiss such cases, time and again, for lack of evidence? Do you think that even a decent and honourable bench stands able to function in the face of bare-faced chicanery by that very administrative machinery that it looks to for proper investigation and presenting of the facts? And finally, do you fail to see, at every point, the malign influence of the politicians who may be worst affected by adverse judgements, and their setting back the gathering of evidence, the safety and security and actual physical availability of witnesses, their wilful creation of intimidation of the entire machinery of legal process, including the browbeating of lawyers who are taking up cases adverse to their interests?

With all that in mind, if you believe that Aal is well, then we have nothing much left to say to each other. Which is fine by me.

 

[laphroaig]

India is the only nation where soldiers who die in line duty are abused by their ungrateful citizens.
It is the unkindest cut of all.

So not true brother.

 

[Nilgiri]

Let me leave this discussion with a thought for you: have not India's complaints about various acts of terror come to Pakistani courts, time and again? Do you remember, as I do, how those courts were forced to dismiss such cases, time and again, for lack of evidence? Do you think that even a decent and honourable bench stands able to function in the face of bare-faced chicanery by that very administrative machinery that it looks to for proper investigation and presenting of the facts? And finally, do you fail to see, at every point, the malign influence of the politicians who may be worst affected by adverse judgements, and their setting back the gathering of evidence, the safety and security and actual physical availability of witnesses, their wilful creation of intimidation of the entire machinery of legal process, including the browbeating of lawyers who are taking up cases adverse to their interests?

With all that in mind, if you believe that Aal is well, then we have nothing much left to say to each other. Which is fine by me.

I am not in the business of comparing Pakistan judiciary with Indian one. I talk about our supreme court and high court system only which I hold in relatively high regard.

I have stated quite clearly I do not believe that surrendered and non-threatening suspected/alleged (at the time) terrorists should be murdered with whatever intention/reason in mind...but that it has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they surrendered, that the nature of their surrender posed no perceivable threat at any point to those taking charge of them and that they posed no threat when they were murdered.

For that I can only rely on the high courts and supreme courts of India which I believe to have a strong independent history of seeking only the truth to mete out justice....and are relatively insulated from political influence (although evidence submitted is unfortunately susceptible to this).

I just want as neutral and unbiased investigation and legal arbitration on the matter.

Extra judicial killing without any element of self defense or justified operational diligence is just not on unless those that did it later plead other things like temporary insanity which the court will then again have to adjudicate on.

Anyways we can continue this discussion somewhere more appropriate. This thread is on another matter.

 

[DesiGuy1403]

So not true brother.

Not all but there are sections of them.
Look at JNU's Kanhayya and Khalid & co and how many leaders and sections of media supported their vileness in defaming Military.

 

[laphroaig]

The only outcome was a murder.

Joe, there is no doubt in anybody's mind that she was Fidayeen scum.

Not mine. Not her crocodile sobbing sister's. So please.

The outcomes, the way most of us see it:

Fidayeen neutralized.

CM life saved.

No security personnel killed.

Chance of sobbing Owaisi and John Dayal brigade preventing Fidayeen from getting quick state justice for years at tax payer's expense averted.

Top of the morning to you sir.

Not all but there are sections of them.
Look at JNU's Kanhayya and Khalid & co and how many leaders and sections of media supported their vileness in defaming Military.

My point was about India being the only country sir.

 

[HAIDER]

Few facts remain unanswered . This guy strapped suicide vest. Then how come his whole body intact. Also, Pak tv claim another body found few yards away from him in pieces. This Pakistan driver face and upper body only show in picture and he seem fine, except little bit bleeding or blood stain on his forehead, may be due to shrapnel

 

[Ryuzaki]

Few facts remain unanswered . This guy strapped suicide vest. Then how come his whole body intact. Also, Pak tv claim another body found few yards away from him in pieces. This Pakistan driver face and upper body only show in picture and he seem fine, except little bit bleeding or blood stain on his forehead, may be due to shrapnel

Are you saying Saudi authorities are trying to frame Pakistani nationals?

 

[HAIDER]

Are you saying Saudi authorities are trying to frame Pakistani nationals?

As of today , Saudi govt HAS NOT handover the evidence .

The Medina suicide bomber has been identified as 18-year-old Umer Abdul Hadi, Arab media reported.

Abdul Hadi had been declared a proclaimed terrorist by Saudi security forces, media reports said.

Meanwhile, a Pakistani taxi driver has been blamed by Saudi Interior ministry for the suicide attack on the US consulate in Jeddah.

According to Saudi officials, the bomber was identified as Abdullah Gulzar Khan who moved to the Kingdom 12 years ago and was staying with his wife and in-laws in Jeddah.

Pakistan ambassador to Saudi Arabi has not confirmed the Saudi claim. “Information about Abdullah Gulzar is still being collected,” he said.

At least four security personnel were killed and five injured when suicide bombers struck three cities across Saudi Arabia on Monday, in an apparently coordinated campaign of attacks as Saudis prepared to break their fast on the penultimate day of the holy month of Ramadan.

Attacks in Jeddah, Qatif, Medina

A suicide bomber detonated a bomb at a parking lot outside the Prophet´s Mosque in Medina, the second-holiest site in Islam, a Saudi security spokesman told state news agency SPA.

"Security men noticed a suspicious person among those approaching the Prophet´s Mosque in an open area used as parking lots for visitors´ cars. As they confronted him, he blew himself up with an explosive belt, which resulted in his death and the martyrdom of four of the security men," the spokesman said.

Five other officers were wounded, the statement added.

In Qatif, an eastern city that is home to many members of the Shi´ite minority, at least one and possibly two explosions struck near a Shi´ite mosque.

Witnesses described body parts, apparently of a suicide bomber, in the aftermath.

A resident of the city reached by telephone said there were believed to be no casualties there apart from the attacker, as worshippers had already gone home to break their fasts.

The third attack in Jeddah occured near the US consulate. A Saudi security official said an attacker parked a car near the US consulate in Jeddah before detonating the device.

The explosions targeting US diplomats, Shi´ite worshippers and a security headquarters at a mosque in the holy city of Medina followed days of mass killings claimed by the Islamic State group in Turkey, Bangladesh and Iraq.

The attacks all seem to have been timed to coincide with the approach of Eid-ul-Fitr

 

[illusion8]

Few facts remain unanswered . This guy strapped suicide vest. Then how come his whole body intact. Also, Pak tv claim another body found few yards away from him in pieces. This Pakistan driver face and upper body only show in picture and he seem fine, except little bit bleeding or blood stain on his forehead, may be due to shrapnel

The reports clearly say that it was a failed suicide attack, my guess is he was shot dead before he could blow himself up.

 

[HAIDER]

The reports clearly say that it was a failed suicide attack, my guess is he was shot dead before he could blow himself up.

Nope, look at the car and Saudi govt claim . First they claim failed to detonate and later so many other claims surfaced in the media.

First claim :

Before that at 2:15 a.m., a suicide bomber blew himself up near the US Consulate in Jeddah. Security officers confronted him as he moved suspiciously at a parking lot of the Dr. Soliman Fakeih Hospital. Two policemen were wounded lightly in the attack.

The bomber was named as Abdullah Qalzar Khan, an expat from Pakistan, who lived in Jeddah with his wife and her parents and came to the country 12 years ago to work as a private driver.