Pakistani Islamists outraged by paintings

[KRAIT]

One can debate all day long what is civilized and what is progressive. Point is you can't measure norms according to your perception if you are not in same environment.

Even in Indian society, many things that are considered as normal behavior is considered as vulgarity and indecent.

You have to take into culture, religion, social structure, customs, local traditions etc. into account when you try to understand whether a certain thing can be displayed in open.

Many people from foreign consider many Indian traditions as some sort of enslavement, oppression etc. because they can't understand our culture but they measures these things according to their social norms and give their verdict.

In this case, considering the current extreme Islamists' growing influence among the masses, they can use this as an excuse to say that the liberals and so called progressive people are destroying the culture. No matter how justified the paintings are or not, you don't give extra fuel to already struggling conditions.

There is already two school of thoughts in Pakistan. One which is adaptable, tolerant and rational which will sort out what is acceptable and what is not with peaceful ways and other is the extremists who will use this as an opportunity for their own personal agenda.

One has to look at direct and indirect effects of all these things on the society and peoples' psyche.

You may not agree with me but back in days, homosexuality was also considered wrong in western nations. Just because they accepted it doesn't mean they can force their thoughts on other countries and if the other countries don't agree with them, it doesn't give western nations the right to call these other nations as backwards and intolerant.

Artist should be a responsible citizen I agree.So its the duty of artist to portray and criticize the institutions of his country.Its a way to create awareness of social evils in the society.

Agreed, but do you think painting these images will create awareness or more anarchy and chaos ?

 

[timetravel]

Paintings outrage Islamic hard-liners in Pakistan.​

By ASIF SHAHZAD
Associated Press / December 29, 2012

LAHORE, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistan’s leading arts college has pushed boundaries before in this conservative nation. But when a series of paintings depicting Muslim clerics in scenes with strong homosexual overtones sparked an uproar and threats of violence by Islamic extremists, it was too much.

Officials at the National College of Arts in the eastern city of Lahore shut down its academic journal, which published the paintings, pulled all its issues out of bookstores and dissolved its editorial board. Still, a court is currently considering whether the paintings’ artist, the journal’s board and the school’s head can be charged with blasphemy.

The college’s decision to cave to Islamist pressure underscores how space for progressive thought is shrinking in Pakistan as hardline interpretations of Islam gain ground. It was also a marked change for an institution that has long been one of the leading defenders of liberal views in the country.

Pakistan is an overwhelmingly Muslim nation, and the majority of its citizens have long been fairly conservative. But what has grown more pronounced in recent years is the power of religious hardliners to enforce their views on members of the population who disagree, often with the threat of violence.

The government is caught up in a war against a domestic Taliban insurgency and often seems powerless to protect its citizens. At other times it has acquiesced to hardline demands because of fear, political gain or a convergence of beliefs.

‘‘Now you have gun-toting people out there on the streets,’’ said Saleema Hashmi, a former head of arts college. ‘‘You don’t know who will kill you. You know no one is there to protect you.’’

The uproar was sparked when the college’s Journal of Contemporary Art and Culture over the summer published pictures of a series of paintings by artist Muhammad Ali.

Particularly infuriating to conservatives were two works that they said insulted Islam by mixing images of Muslim clerics with suggestions of homosexuality, which is deeply taboo in Pakistan.

One titled ‘‘Call for Prayer’’ shows a cleric and a shirtless young boy sitting beside each other on a cot. The cleric fingers rosary beads as he gazes at the boy, who seductively stretches backward with his hands clasped behind his head.

Mumtaz Mangat, a lawyer who petitioned the courts to impose blasphemy charges, argued the image implied the cleric had ‘‘fun’’ with the boy before conducting the traditional Muslim call for prayer.

A second painting shows the same cleric reclining in front of a Muslim shrine, holding a book by Brazilian novelist Paulo Coelho in one hand as he lights a cigarette for a young boy with the other. A second young boy, who is naked with his legs strategically crossed to cover his genitals, sits at the cleric’s feet. The painting has caused particular uproar because verses from Islam’s holy book, the Quran, appear on the shrine.

Aasim Akhtar, an Islamabad-based art critic who wrote an essay accompanying the paintings in the journal, wrote that Ali’s mixing of images was ‘‘deliberately, violently profane,’’ aimed at challenge ‘‘homophobic’’ beliefs that are widespread in Pakistani society.

‘‘Ali redefines the divine through a critique of authority and the hypocrisy of the cleric,’’ wrote Akhtar, an Islamabad-based art critic who is also listed as a potential defendant in the blasphemy complaint.

Jamaat-ud-Dawa, widely believed to be a front for the Lashkar-e-Taiba militant group, issued a statement after the paintings were published demanding the college issue a public apology and withdraw all issues of the journal.

College staff members also began receiving anonymous text messages threatening violence, said a member of the journal’s editorial board. They were afraid to push back for fear of being killed, he said, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of being targeted.

Extremists gunned down two prominent Pakistani politicians last year for speaking out against the country’s harsh blasphemy laws, which can mean life in prison or even death. Human rights activists have criticized the laws, saying they are often used to persecute religious minorities or settle personal scores.

Yahya Mujahid, the spokesman for Jamaat-ud-Dawa, denied the group sent any threats but said the state should punish those responsible.

‘‘It’s part of Western and American plans to malign Islam,’’ claimed Mujahid.

A court considering whether to press blasphemy charges held its latest session in mid-December, but it has not said when it will rule whether such charges apply in the case.Continued...

© Copyright 2012 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

ww.boston.com/news/world/asia/2012/12/29/paintings-outrage-islamic-hard-liners-pakistan

Is the Cleric or Mullah same as the holy Prophet of Islam

seems Clerics/Mullahs are saying insluting me is insulting Islam..!! WTF... from when did the Clerics become God?

The Clerics/Mullahs didnt like their pics being made and simply used Islam to prevent someone from questioning their authority of Pakistani people or making fun of the Clerics/Mullahs by resorting to violence and equating themselves (Clerics/Mullahs) with God..

Clerics/Mullahs are not God and cant Pakistani people make fun or to criticize them (the Mullahs/Clerics.. not talking about Islam or Prophet Mohamed).. but really now criticizing/making fun/making painting on a Mullah/Cleric equal to making fun of God and equal to Blasphemy.. seriously..??

for me it is a bigger Blasphemy for any Mullah/Cleric to equate himself God, and this is just what all these Mullahs/Clerics arw doing in this case equating themselves to God.

 

[Azazel]

Agreed, but do you think painting these images will create awareness or more anarchy and chaos ?

What really must do is to act against the one who creates anarchy and chaos.Look at what happened in Mumbai,those two girls were booked for posting a harmless tweets,while Shiv Sena thugs got away after ransacking the doctors clinic.Those people who blamed the girls only strengthened the stance of those thugs and provided a moral justification for their thuggish behaviour.If our society take a strong stance against anarchy and chaos no such things will happen.If their weren't any public outrage against the arrests of those girls,they will still be languishing in the prison.

One can debate all day long what is civilized and what is progressive. Point is you can't measure norms according to your perception if you are not in same environment.

Even in Indian society, many things that are considered as normal behavior is considered as vulgarity and indecent.

You have to take into culture, religion, social structure, customs, local traditions etc. into account when you try to understand whether a certain thing can be displayed in open.

Many people from foreign consider many Indian traditions as some sort of enslavement, oppression etc. because they can't understand our culture but they measures these things according to their social norms and give their verdict.

In this case, considering the current extreme Islamists' growing influence among the masses, they can use this as an excuse to say that the liberals and so called progressive people are destroying the culture. No matter how justified the paintings are or not, you don't give extra fuel to already struggling conditions.

There is already two school of thoughts in Pakistan. One which is adaptable, tolerant and rational which will sort out what is acceptable and what is not with peaceful ways and other is the extremists who will use this as an opportunity for their own personal agenda.

One has to look at direct and indirect effects of all these things on the society and peoples' psyche.

You may not agree with me but back in days, homosexuality was also considered wrong in western nations. Just because they accepted it doesn't mean they can force their thoughts on other countries and if the other countries don't agree with them, it doesn't give western nations the right to call these other nations as backwards and intolerant.

Well,My point here is culture, religion, social structure, customs, local traditions etc should never be used as an excuse to carry out or cover up injustice or crimes.

 

[KRAIT]

What really must do is to act against the one who creates anarchy and chaos.Look at what happened in Mumbai,those two girls were booked for posting a harmless tweets,while Shiv Sena thugs got away after ransacking the doctors clinic.Those people who blamed the girls only strengthened the stance of those thugs and provided a moral justification for their thuggish behaviour.If our society take a strong stance against anarchy and chaos no such things will happen.If their weren't any public outrage against the arrests of those girls,they will still be languishing in the prison.
Well,My point here is culture, religion, social structure, customs, local traditions etc should never be used as an excuse to carry out or cover up injustice or crimes.

It depends on what you call excuse and what is right reason. What the girls did was within our norms, but sometimes people crosses line against general norms.

The line is drawn by people of the region, not the people who don't understand the region. Many times freedom of expression through arts is good but if you cross the line of decency for respected figures and people accept it, no wonder they will start disrespecting normal people too.

One has to really live in a society where these things happen. Ground reality are much different. And I don't want one life lost because some artist had a weird imagination.

 

[timetravel]

One has to really live in a society where these things happen. Ground reality are much different. And I don't want one life lost because some artist had a weird imagination.

yes no life should be lost.. but the thugs will keep on drawing new lines and soon there will be no freedom. the society needs to come out against the thugs like it did in case of shiv sena goons.

these thugs are just using Islam to silence every voice of moderate Pakistani people.. normal Pakistani people are not objecting at all.. or they are unable to due to fear of violence.

 

[KRAIT]

yes no life should be lost.. but the thugs will keep on drawing new lines and soon there will be no freedom. the society needs to come out against the thugs like it did in case of shiv sena goons.
these thugs are just using Islam to silence every voice of moderate Pakistani people.. normal Pakistani people are not objecting at all.. or they are unable to due to fear of violence.

You know why they are in fear. Because you can't change the behavior of people in few days. Its a gradual process. You have to know about social conditioning.

 

[ephone]

Even "Nudes"???

You have ever been to Italy, or any part of Europe???

You have even heard of those famous art pieces???

Painting nudes or gay art is not considered "progressive thought" in civilized world.

 

[seethru]

Painting nudes or gay art is not considered "progressive thought" in civilized world.

Visit Indian/Hindu Temples. Thank God(not Allah), the Islamic marauders couldn't destroy all of them.

 

[airmarshal]

No,its called freedom of expression.And its a very progressive way of thinking.

Why freedom of expression always directed against Islam and Muslim beliefs. The painter must be punished.

There is nothing 'homophobic' about it.

It astonishes me how western media finds stories to put Islam and Muslims on the spot. Homosexuality might be an accepted norm in western world, but it is totally banned and sin in Islam. There is a full chapter in Quran how homosexuality is banned in Islam and what punishment is there for it.

I hope our modern, secular and progressive posters on this forum understand my backward take on it.

 

[seethru]

Why freedom of expression always directed against Islam and Muslim beliefs.

Because Muslims abuse Freedom of speech the most. For example overt Bigotry of Mullahs and Muslim community leaders w.r.t Christianity/Liberalism/Free societies in the west or Hinduism/Pluralism/Free thought in India. Anyone with required number of neurons would naturally call on Islamic Mumbo-jumbo and you call it Islamophobia.

The painter must be punished.

There is nothing 'homophobic' about it.

It astonishes me how western media finds stories to put Islam and Muslims on the spot. Homosexuality might be an accepted norm in western world, but it is totally banned and sin in Islam. There is a full chapter in Quran how homosexuality is banned in Islam and what punishment is there for it.

I hope our modern, secular and progressive posters on this forum understand my backward take on it.

That's exaclty why Islam is in the spot. Quran's obsession with Human Sexuality is so absurd, it tops Old testament in preversity.

 

[Azazel]

Why freedom of expression always directed against Islam and Muslim beliefs. The painter must be punished.

There is nothing 'homophobic' about it.

It astonishes me how western media finds stories to put Islam and Muslims on the spot. Homosexuality might be an accepted norm in western world, but it is totally banned and sin in Islam. There is a full chapter in Quran how homosexuality is banned in Islam and what punishment is there for it.

I hope our modern, secular and progressive posters on this forum understand my backward take on it.

Tell me,What does Islam speaks about child sexual abuse.Have the punishment against these people carried out yet.Or did they covered it up??

A Pakistani minister has revealed hundreds of cases of alleged child sex abuse at Islamic schools, or madrassas.

There were 500 complaints this year of abuse allegedly committed by clerics, Aamer Liaquat Hussain, a minister in the religious affairs department, said.

That compares with 2,000 last year, but as yet there have been no successful prosecutions, Mr Hussain told the BBC.

The minister's revelations have sparked death threats and infuriated some religious political leaders.

Mr Hussain said he had received death threats from clerics, but that he had done his job and his conscience was clear.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Madrassas hit by sex abuse claims

You are offended by the mere portrayal of homosexuality, but not offended by this.Isn't that hypocrisy.

BTW,Freedom of expression is universal human right,One has every right to communicate his/hers opinions and ideas and no religion should stand in its way.

 

[PakShah]

Paintings outrage Islamic hard-liners in Pakistan.​

By ASIF SHAHZAD
Associated Press / December 29, 2012

LAHORE, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistan’s leading arts college has pushed boundaries before in this conservative nation. But when a series of paintings depicting Muslim clerics in scenes with strong homosexual overtones sparked an uproar and threats of violence by Islamic extremists, it was too much.

Officials at the National College of Arts in the eastern city of Lahore shut down its academic journal, which published the paintings, pulled all its issues out of bookstores and dissolved its editorial board. Still, a court is currently considering whether the paintings’ artist, the journal’s board and the school’s head can be charged with blasphemy.

The college’s decision to cave to Islamist pressure underscores how space for progressive thought is shrinking in Pakistan as hardline interpretations of Islam gain ground. It was also a marked change for an institution that has long been one of the leading defenders of liberal views in the country.

Pakistan is an overwhelmingly Muslim nation, and the majority of its citizens have long been fairly conservative. But what has grown more pronounced in recent years is the power of religious hardliners to enforce their views on members of the population who disagree, often with the threat of violence.

The government is caught up in a war against a domestic Taliban insurgency and often seems powerless to protect its citizens. At other times it has acquiesced to hardline demands because of fear, political gain or a convergence of beliefs.

‘‘Now you have gun-toting people out there on the streets,’’ said Saleema Hashmi, a former head of arts college. ‘‘You don’t know who will kill you. You know no one is there to protect you.’’

The uproar was sparked when the college’s Journal of Contemporary Art and Culture over the summer published pictures of a series of paintings by artist Muhammad Ali.

Particularly infuriating to conservatives were two works that they said insulted Islam by mixing images of Muslim clerics with suggestions of homosexuality, which is deeply taboo in Pakistan.

One titled ‘‘Call for Prayer’’ shows a cleric and a shirtless young boy sitting beside each other on a cot. The cleric fingers rosary beads as he gazes at the boy, who seductively stretches backward with his hands clasped behind his head.

Mumtaz Mangat, a lawyer who petitioned the courts to impose blasphemy charges, argued the image implied the cleric had ‘‘fun’’ with the boy before conducting the traditional Muslim call for prayer.

A second painting shows the same cleric reclining in front of a Muslim shrine, holding a book by Brazilian novelist Paulo Coelho in one hand as he lights a cigarette for a young boy with the other. A second young boy, who is naked with his legs strategically crossed to cover his genitals, sits at the cleric’s feet. The painting has caused particular uproar because verses from Islam’s holy book, the Quran, appear on the shrine.

Aasim Akhtar, an Islamabad-based art critic who wrote an essay accompanying the paintings in the journal, wrote that Ali’s mixing of images was ‘‘deliberately, violently profane,’’ aimed at challenge ‘‘homophobic’’ beliefs that are widespread in Pakistani society.

‘‘Ali redefines the divine through a critique of authority and the hypocrisy of the cleric,’’ wrote Akhtar, an Islamabad-based art critic who is also listed as a potential defendant in the blasphemy complaint.

Jamaat-ud-Dawa, widely believed to be a front for the Lashkar-e-Taiba militant group, issued a statement after the paintings were published demanding the college issue a public apology and withdraw all issues of the journal.

College staff members also began receiving anonymous text messages threatening violence, said a member of the journal’s editorial board. They were afraid to push back for fear of being killed, he said, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of being targeted.

Extremists gunned down two prominent Pakistani politicians last year for speaking out against the country’s harsh blasphemy laws, which can mean life in prison or even death. Human rights activists have criticized the laws, saying they are often used to persecute religious minorities or settle personal scores.

Yahya Mujahid, the spokesman for Jamaat-ud-Dawa, denied the group sent any threats but said the state should punish those responsible.

‘‘It’s part of Western and American plans to malign Islam,’’ claimed Mujahid.

A court considering whether to press blasphemy charges held its latest session in mid-December, but it has not said when it will rule whether such charges apply in the case.Continued...

© Copyright 2012 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

ww.boston.com/news/world/asia/2012/12/29/paintings-outrage-islamic-hard-liners-pakistan

What do you mean by Muslim Extremists? I condemn the Gay/Lesbian paintings. This is totally against our religion.

Gay/Lesbian paintings must be banned. This is totally Haraam.

Anyone who paints this should be punished appropriately according to Islam.

 

[Azazel]

enlighten me?-
who were the ones protesting here?-

They are bunch of silly people.BTW,protesting against something is also a freedom of expression.At least the protest was peaceful and no one bombed Australian embassy.

 

[JonAsad]

They are bunch of silly people.BTW,protesting against something is also a freedom of expression.At least the protest was peaceful and no one bombed Australian embassy.

To them maybe you are one of silly people- -
Last time such a peaceful protest ended up in police using water cannon-
Not so long ago another protest resulted in a riot and a ban on social media-
Maybe your bechmark is the australian embassy while rest didnt bother you much-

 

[Saleem]

all they need to do is close their eyes.....