Pakistani defence industrial base better than ours: Indian Army Vice Chief Lt. Gen. Sarath Chand

[CriticalThought]

Hi @CriticalThought
You failed to read the entire article, this is a personal opinion of a serving Lt general. Besides he was refering to the "defence production related to OFB". OFB is not authorized to carry out any research, it is the job of DRDO/NAL/ISRO. Once a system has been designed it is passed onto OFB for mass production. Again, there are many OFBs factories in India and some are doing good too, Lt gen failed to mention that.
There is no doubt that OFB isnt performing optimally and infact should be disband and Lt Gen's comments are being twisted and churned based on the whims and fantasies of various people.

Here is what I can clearly see from the general's words which I quote below. India does not have any meaningful manufacturing capability, or research towards manufacturing capability. As a matter of fact, manufacturing plants imported from abroad aren't functioning properly. Given this dismal state of disarray, I am doubtful how useful would be any research that is being performed. I am saying this specifically in the context of defence manufacturing. Furthermore, if I have a setup where research is being performed by academia, I wouldn't utter the sentence "There is little or no research and development". The sentence reflects the generals thoughts, and casts doubts on the effectiveness of whatever defence research is being done.

“There is little or no research and development. They do not even have the capability of absorbing the industry through transfer of technology, and in some cases they have even failed to assemble products that have been imported from abroad,” Lt. Gen. Chand said. “It is very hard to see ordnance factories changing in the present state. Overall it has become an unsuccessful method of supporting our defence requirements,” he said.

 

[gslv mk3]

Though this is about military Industrial complex welfare or business facet of Pak Army...but it all adds up. One reason even with a low defence budget of 9.5 billion USD, Pakistan Army is better equipped and better fed. Some excerpts from Ayesha Siddiqa's 'Military Inc's.

Pakistani army's '$20bn' business
Al Jazeera takes a look at how the Pakistani military is turning a profit.

The Pakistani military's "welfare foundations" run thousands of businesses worth tens of billions of dollars, ranging from street-corner petrol pumps to sprawling industrial plants, says Ayesha Siddiqa, the author of Military Inc: Inside Pakistan's Military Economy.

http://www.aljazeera.com/focus/****...2007/10/2008525184515984128.html?xif=Accessed

Oh, god. Don't tell me that you're proud about army running everything from cement manufacturing to FM radio in your country.

It is also about missiles and MIRV tech, about tritium headed tactical cruise missiles, about trainer aircraft and light combat aircraft(Pakistan is exporting Mashak to Turkey and many other countries) like JF-17(about 70 of them inducted in PAF).

Missiles ? We have an even diverse portfolio in missiles.

You're claiming that you have Thermonuclear warheads ?

trainer & light combat aircraft ? Who do you think is producing Su 30 MKI, LCA, Dhruv, Hawk AJT & LCH ?

. India does not have any meaningful manufacturing capability, or research towards manufacturing capability. As a matter of fact, manufacturing plants imported from abroad aren't functioning properly.

BS...in the next sentance, he talks about the ordinance factories.

“It is very hard to see ordnance factories changing in the present state. Overall it has become an unsuccessful method of supporting our defence requirements,” he said.

Please don't tell me that we does not have any meaningful manufacturing capability or research towards manufacturing capability (what exactly is that supposed to mean, anyway ?)

 

[CriticalThought]

Oh, god. Don't tell me that you're proud about army running everything from cement manufacturing to FM radio in your country.



Missiles ? We have an even diverse portfolio in missiles.

You're claiming that you have Thermonuclear warheads ?

trainer & light combat aircraft ? Who do you think is producing Su 30 MKI, LCA, Dhruv, Hawk AJT & LCH ?



BS...in the next sentance, he talks about the ordinance factories.

“It is very hard to see ordnance factories changing in the present state. Overall it has become an unsuccessful method of supporting our defence requirements,” he said.

Please don't tell me that we does not have any meaningful manufacturing capability or research towards manufacturing capability (what exactly is that supposed to mean, anyway ?)

Research towards enhancing manufacturing capability would be research into materials, industrial processes such as welds, joins, new techniques for machining etc.

 

[gslv mk3]

Research towards enhancing manufacturing capability would be research into materials, industrial processes such as welds, joins, new techniques for machining etc.

Much of those is carried out by the industry/ DRDO- example would be development of DMR249 A/B steel by DMRL & SAIL.

 

[DarX]

This man also said India carried out a Surgical Strike...

I'm pretty sure he felt very guilty about lying after that.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

Oh, god. Don't tell me that you're proud about army running everything from cement manufacturing to FM radio in your country.



Missiles ? We have an even diverse portfolio in missiles.

You're claiming that you have Thermonuclear warheads ?

trainer & light combat aircraft ? Who do you think is producing Su 30 MKI, LCA, Dhruv, Hawk AJT & LCH ?



BS...in the next sentance, he talks about the ordinance factories.

“It is very hard to see ordnance factories changing in the present state. Overall it has become an unsuccessful method of supporting our defence requirements,” he said.

Please don't tell me that we does not have any meaningful manufacturing capability or research towards manufacturing capability (what exactly is that supposed to mean, anyway ?)

Sukhoi 30 MKI facts below, assembled from CKD kit, nothing is manufactured locally in India, so you are implying that India is manufacturing Sukhoi 30 MKI, but finding it hard to develop the LCA Tejas, for the last 3 decades, doesn't adds up here, not possible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30MKI

HAL Dhruv yes, don't know about the quality and performance but has very high crash ratio.
After 4 Crashes, Ecuador Grounds Fleet of Indian Dhruv Choppers,

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/afte...ndian-dhruv-choppers-cancels-contract-1232715 Cancels Contract

As for the MIC of Pakistan and their business enterprise...I would say it all adds up, kind of value addition, they are competent, has better administration skills as an institution...check the amount of tax they pay yearly it is more than 250 billion Rs....also they employ more civilian and mostly run by retired M.men

 

[gslv mk3]

Sukhoi 30 MKI facts below, assembled from CKD kit, nothing is manufactured locally in India

Dude, the Su 30 MKI is fully manufactured in India from raw material now. It's AL 31 FP turbofan is manufactured at Koraput facility of HAL. That is very high level of indigenization.

Anyway, you want to compare the number of certified aerospace vendors in India & Pakistan ?

but finding it hard to develop the LCA Tejas, for the last 3 decades, doesn't adds up here, not possible.

Because develop a fighter aircraft is much harder than manufacturing the same (which we had been doing for the past 60 or so years)

Let me ask the question in reverse, how can JF 17 be locally manufactured in Pakistan, when it hasn't ever developed one single aircraft by itself ?

HAL Dhruv yes, don't know about the quality and performance but has very high crash ratio.
After 4 Crashes, Ecuador Grounds Fleet of Indian Dhruv Choppers,

High crash ratio ? This helicopter is in service with Indian armed forces who stand by them & has ordered several hundreds of them.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

Let me ask the question in reverse, how can JF 17 be locally manufactured in Pakistan, when it hasn't ever developed one single aircraft by itself ?

Pakistan does have in the 60's mirage rebuild factory, and PAC was there since many decades, has some infra developed earlier US sanctions and stopping F-16 supplies and hardware also hastens the case to develop an LCA and avionics.

BTW JF-17, here JF stands for joint fighter, Pakistan and China worked together on it, 51% and 49% share of Pak and China, just as F-16 was never inducted in US fleet as meant for exports, this JF-17 was developed for Pakistan and for exports...

Dude, the Su 30 MKI is fully manufactured in India from raw material now. It's AL 31 FP turbofan is manufactured at Koraput facility of HAL. That is very high level of indigenization.

I can accept Su 30 MKI, AL 31 FP turbofan manufactured locally, that's about it...

 

[gslv mk3]

I can accept Su 30 MKI, AL 31 FP turbofan manufactured locally, that's about it...

So India has a larger industrial base in Aerospace, that's about it.

 

[Hamza913]

He is a patriot and he certainly is not the first or last to critique Defence manufacturing in India. My own post from a week ago is far far far more critical. We are Indians not pakistani sheep brainwashed since birth to regard defence matters as more sacred than god. We dont fear disappearing with our families never to be heard from, and NEVER reported about, never spoken of into that dark void.
We are the worlds largest democracy, a free press bigger than anywhere in the world and in more languages than anywhere else. We are a shouty obstreperous argumentative outrageously diverse multi-religious multi-linguistic opinionated people.
The last great hope of mankind.
Someone mentioned corruption. Yes thats true as well as its true for developing countries.

You worship cows for goodness sake.

 

[SrNair]

Though this is about military Industrial complex welfare or business facet of Pak Army...but it all adds up. One reason even with a low defence budget of 9.5 billion USD, Pakistan Army is better equipped and better fed. Some excerpts from Ayesha Siddiqa's 'Military Inc's.

Pakistani army's '$20bn' business
Al Jazeera takes a look at how the Pakistani military is turning a profit.

The Pakistani military's "welfare foundations" run thousands of businesses worth tens of billions of dollars, ranging from street-corner petrol pumps to sprawling industrial plants, says Ayesha Siddiqa, the author of Military Inc: Inside Pakistan's Military Economy.

http://www.aljazeera.com/focus/****...2007/10/2008525184515984128.html?xif=Accessed

Of Course ,Pakistan Army is better equipped and better fed .That is why the social welfare scheme is one opposite poles .
And your Army also have business.
In India MIC and other kind of stuffs are elected govts business not Army.
Indian Armed Forces has been paid for protecting our nation from external forces not for doing business like in Pakistan.

20 billion $.
Our defence budget is 50 billion$.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

Just searched the net, AL 31 FP turbofan is all Russian...the JF-17 engine is also Russian, Klimov offered a variant of the RD-33 turbofan engine to power the fighter.

http://www.leteckemotory.cz/motory/al-31/index.php?en

China is also working on an indigenous engine which has the potential to power the FC-1 in future. The engine is known as WS-13 Taishen. It is a turbofan engine developed by Guizhou Aircraft Industry Corporation. It was reported that JF-17 had been tested with the engine in early 2010.

So India has a larger industrial base in Aerospace, that's about it.

I was misled into believing Su 30 MKI, AL 31 FP turbofan manufactured locally in India, which proved a falsehood and not true after some research...chances of naming any product which is made elsewhere as 'made in India' is clear and present there in India...can't help it.

Of Course ,Pakistan Army is better equipped and better fed .That is why the social welfare scheme is one opposite poles .
And your Army also have business.
In India MIC and other kind of stuffs are elected govts business not Army.
Indian Armed Forces has been paid for protecting our nation from external forces not for doing business like in Pakistan.

20 billion $.
Our defence budget is 50 billion$.

Pakistan defence budget is 10 billion USD in addition to it, and more lean and mean, considering that India is the largest arms importer in the world...also consider that Pakistan population is just 15% of India's, also look at the IA and PA size.

 

[Unite & Defend]

He is a patriot and he certainly is not the first or last to critique Defence manufacturing in India. My own post from a week ago is far far far more critical. We are Indians not pakistani sheep brainwashed since birth to regard defence matters as more sacred than god. We dont fear disappearing with our families never to be heard from, and NEVER reported about, never spoken of into that dark void.
We are the worlds largest democracy, a free press bigger than anywhere in the world and in more languages than anywhere else. We are a shouty obstreperous argumentative outrageously diverse multi-religious multi-linguistic opinionated people.
The last great hope of mankind.
Someone mentioned corruption. Yes thats true as well as its true for developing countries.

Your also highly delusional

 

[DarX]

Dude, the Su 30 MKI is fully manufactured in India from raw material now. It's AL 31 FP turbofan is manufactured at Koraput facility of HAL. That is very high level of indigenization.

1. Haha.. The SU-30MKI is fully manufacture from raw material now? Then how come India is still targeting specific components for localization?

http://www.janes.com/article/69508/...ties-with-russia-to-support-su-30mki-fighters

2. How come India has to sign another agreement for spare parts delivery and after sales service from Russia if they were manufacturing the SU-30 in India?

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...ort-pact-on-sukhoi-su30mki/article9589218.ece

http://www.janes.com/article/66785/...are-parts-for-licence-built-su-30mki-fighters

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...dia-negotiating-su-30-combat-jet-support-deal

3. If the SU-30MKI was locally produced from "raw materials" in India, why can't India upgrade them? Did they shut down their military complex after production?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ec-state-corporation/articleshow/59654226.cms

 

[N.Siddiqui]

Dude, the Su 30 MKI is fully manufactured in India from raw material now.

...from raw materials....seriously???. Just like Patanjali products made by Ramdev, using organic materials including lot of Cow produce and waste too...being modest here.