Pakistani daily concerned over India's hiked defence budget

[Koovie]

focus should be on increasing military capacity with stronger economy and maybe even taking care of the people instead of fear-mongering ab India's defense spending

Please read about the dozens of infrastructure projects which have been introduced in the few weeks of Modi`s reign.
And those are just the tip of the iceberg

Well said.

India Becomes Top Arms Importer in the World
Feb 24 2014

As per the data revealed by the reputed Swedish research centre which monitors global arms purchases, India tops the list of countries that have the largest arms imports, followed by China, South Korea and Pakistan.

The data on arms transfers released by Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) indicated that India received 9 per cent of the volume of international arms transfers during 2006 to 2010. The report added that the four largest importers of conventional weapons in 2006 to 2010 are all located in Asia with China and South Korea garnering 6 per cent each and Pakistan with 5 per cent of the volume of international arms transfers.

The SIPRI report added that India is expected to maintain the top spot in arms exports due to a range of combat aircraft, naval systems and weaponry that India plans to acquire in the near future. In the last five years, India's arms import delivery volumes jumped 21 per cent. India’s defence budget of $ 34 billion is a 40 per cent hike from two years before and India also imports 70 per cent of its arms. Most of the procurements are meant for modernizing the Indian Armed Forces. The report added that 82 per cent of Indian imports come from Russia, which has long been India’s supplier of choice. In addition, aircrafts accounted for 71 per cent of India’s global imports.

India has established itself as a prime importer of defence equipment and the purchases lined up in the pipeline only reinforce its status as a top buyer in the world. India proposes to buy 126 fighter jets in a deal worth $11 billion and about 200 helicopters worth another $ 4 billion. Other significant purchases include large amphibious landing ships at $300 million to $500 million each and talks regarding another $10 billion submarine order.

The SIPRI report indicated that the average volume of worldwide arms transfers in 2006 to 2010 was 24 per cent higher than the previous five-year period. The major recipient region in 2006-2010 remained Asia and Oceania with 43 per cent of all imports followed by Europe with 21 per cent, the Middle East with17 per cent, the Americas with 12 per cent and Africa with 7 per cent.

Although China had remained the top arms buyer till last year, it has become self reliant to a large extent and not many major weapons were acquired lately. In fact, China’s annual arms imports declined from $3.5 billion in 2005 to $0.6 billion in 2009. However, India’s percentage in global arms import has risen 21 percent from the previous five-year-period with factors such as internal security and rivalries with neighboring countries accounting for that hike. India has, unlike China, failed to become self-reliant and create a more robust domestic industry in the recent years.

Meanwhile, the United States remained the world's largest military equipment exporter, accounting for 30 percent of global arms exports in 2006 to 2010 period, 44 percent of which went to to Asia and Oceania, the SIPRI report said. The rest of the top five arms suppliers were Russia with 23 percent of the total market Germany with 11 per cent, France with 7 per cent and Britain with 4 per cent.

India Becomes Top Arms Importer in the World

Please read post #11

 

[Agent_47]

Well said.

India Becomes Top Arms Importer in the World
Feb 24 2014

As per the data revealed by the reputed Swedish research centre which monitors global arms purchases, India tops the list of countries that have the largest arms imports, followed by China, South Korea and Pakistan.

The data on arms transfers released by Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) indicated that India received 9 per cent of the volume of international arms transfers during 2006 to 2010. The report added that the four largest importers of conventional weapons in 2006 to 2010 are all located in Asia with China and South Korea garnering 6 per cent each and Pakistan with 5 per cent of the volume of international arms transfers.

The SIPRI report added that India is expected to maintain the top spot in arms exports due to a range of combat aircraft, naval systems and weaponry that India plans to acquire in the near future. In the last five years, India's arms import delivery volumes jumped 21 per cent. India’s defence budget of $ 34 billion is a 40 per cent hike from two years before and India also imports 70 per cent of its arms. Most of the procurements are meant for modernizing the Indian Armed Forces. The report added that 82 per cent of Indian imports come from Russia, which has long been India’s supplier of choice. In addition, aircrafts accounted for 71 per cent of India’s global imports.

India has established itself as a prime importer of defence equipment and the purchases lined up in the pipeline only reinforce its status as a top buyer in the world. India proposes to buy 126 fighter jets in a deal worth $11 billion and about 200 helicopters worth another $ 4 billion. Other significant purchases include large amphibious landing ships at $300 million to $500 million each and talks regarding another $10 billion submarine order.

The SIPRI report indicated that the average volume of worldwide arms transfers in 2006 to 2010 was 24 per cent higher than the previous five-year period. The major recipient region in 2006-2010 remained Asia and Oceania with 43 per cent of all imports followed by Europe with 21 per cent, the Middle East with17 per cent, the Americas with 12 per cent and Africa with 7 per cent.

Although China had remained the top arms buyer till last year, it has become self reliant to a large extent and not many major weapons were acquired lately. In fact, China’s annual arms imports declined from $3.5 billion in 2005 to $0.6 billion in 2009. However, India’s percentage in global arms import has risen 21 percent from the previous five-year-period with factors such as internal security and rivalries with neighboring countries accounting for that hike. India has, unlike China, failed to become self-reliant and create a more robust domestic industry in the recent years.

Meanwhile, the United States remained the world's largest military equipment exporter, accounting for 30 percent of global arms exports in 2006 to 2010 period, 44 percent of which went to to Asia and Oceania, the SIPRI report said. The rest of the top five arms suppliers were Russia with 23 percent of the total market Germany with 11 per cent, France with 7 per cent and Britain with 4 per cent.

India Becomes Top Arms Importer in the World

For modernizing armed forces we have enough money , so we like to buy everything world class .we don't restrict our self to cheap or OK products (think jf17).At best we mix things, like Rafale and LCA or Apache and LCH.

Unlike china we have whole lot of import options and we import world class with ToT or offset.also,remember they were in the same place a decade ago(they were no one importer). Now they have bigger economy and robust military manufacturing capability.Give us a decade.

 

[Gessler]

Wrong, the BMP 2`s of the IA were built by the Ordnance Factory Medak

Yes, and BMP-2s, being IFVs, are far more versatile than APCs innately.

Wrong,

T 90 production line

Yeah...only difference being we JVed Russian MBT, they JV with Chinese MBT. But we're producing
T-90s at much faster rate, the final figure could reach 1,500 or more. It even comes with our own
armor (Kanchan) fitted.

Arjun MBT production

Arjun development is a whole different league, although it was somewhat mismanaged. It makes me laugh when
countries that can't mass produce indigenous passenger automobiles speak about mass producing indigenous tanks
and APCs. Truth is most of these tanks & APCs were joint efforts or rip offs of Chinese MBT-2000, US M113 etc.

HAL has produced flight trainers of the previous generations, but lost out to in the current one to Hawks and Pilatus trainers. Both of them are made by HAL now.

Yep...just that they're not given Indian names when we build them under license.

What do you mean by own fighter? It was neither designed entirely in Pakistan nor are all parts of it manufactured in Pakistan.

And concerning India, we manufacture several aircraft here, including some of the best ones like the Flanker H`s

Most of IAF fighters are actually MADE in India, although most of their origins are somewhere else (so is JF-17's).

Su-30MKI
MiG-27
SEPECAT Jaguar
MiG-21
LCA Tejas

All produced within India. We built more than a 1,000 individual fighter airframes here. Pakistan built less than 50.

Even the engines, radars, electronic suites are produced within India in different production lines. They've
built thousands of fighter engines & hundreds of PESA radars. We are making huge strides toward producing AESA now.
The number of mechanically-steered radars produced is countless.

And almost ALL of the future acquisitions are to be made in India, too.

Rafale
Super-Sukhoi
Tejas Mk-2
FGFA

They will easily take the tally to more than 2,000-2,500 individual airframes, and even the fighters nowadays will have
more and more indigenous content. At the highest possible estimations, Pak will build about 200 or so individual
airframes, looking at acquisitions within foreseeable future.

(of course not all components are made here, but which nation does have a 100% indigenous supply chain in todays world?).

Sure thing, even European makers rely on joint efforts like Typhoon program. China itself is still dependent on Russian
tech to varying extents. US & Russia are probably the only ones capable of building everything from scratch themselves...but this is the result of decades of experience, trillions of dollars in investments & research.

If one believed things were made in Pak from scratch just because they are painted green, then they are either
simply misinformed or are in a state of delusion.

Indian Army does not produce ATGM`s, the OBF does.

Yeah, most of our ATGMs are produced within India as well, with license.

Yeah, how many of them are in service? How many of them are designed in Pakistan only?

Made in India

P-15A Kolkata-class DDG

P-17 Shivalik-class FFG

P-15 Delhi-class DDG

P-16A Brahmaputra-class FFG

P-16 Godavari-class FFG

P-28 Kamorta-class ASW Corvette

P-25A Kora-class Corvette

P-25 Kuhkri-class Corvette

The list goes on...and I only mentioned main surface combatants above. And these are indigenous designs, not
foreign designs built here. Some of them even have engines, radars, sonars, missiles, defence systems, etc. either fully
developed, jointly developed or license-built within India.

We're even building aircraft carriers, conventional/nuclear subs, tankers, etc. etc.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Pakistan builds its own APCs, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds its 100% present and future tank requirement now, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds its own small arms for military, India doesn't, minus the crap INSAS.

Others answered the rest of those, but how do you act like you know what you're talking about when you get these wrong??

Even put Arjuns turret on locally produced T-72 chassis.

As for future tanks are concerned.

http://www.innovasjonnorge.no/PageFiles/298628/20131212 10 KPS_TML_Norway_delegation_12Dec2013 Pant Bye.pdf

It might run like the whole FICV deal. Where Indian companies are the project leaders^ This one is a possible TATA ambition. However it will work, it's in the "make" category.

Pakistan builds its own APCs, India doesn't.

Like come on bro?

India has/built thousands of BMPs.

India does whatever it wants with it.

Put NAGs on it

Akash System with it

Make an unmanned vehicle out of it.

Makes a light SPGH out of it

etc
etc
etc

As for future infantry fighting vehicles are concerned, it's also under the "make" category.

TATA, Mahindra, Ashok Leylend, etc, etc. are teaming up with foreign or domestic partners to replace the BMPs.

TATAs/DRDOs platform example -

Wheeled

Soon to come out tracked one

 

[spectribution]

Guys why bother arguing with a beggar?

Two corrections to Aeronaut:

1> Pakistan DOES NOT build any howitzers at home! It has ~ 40 Panther Howitzers. SIPRI sadly is very unreliable as they have no concrete data and even they show no ToT refernence, just orders given to replace old 155mm stock of PA. As per MKEK Panther is produced only by MKEK.

India meanwhile has begun production of Dhanush 155/45 CAL Howitzer. As per officials at Defence Expo 2014 full scale production begins in September this year. After only 3 yrs of R&D , we have a working gun. Neat eh? No begging, No IMF loans, that's the way India does it!

2> Pakistan DOES NOT produce FRIGATES , SUBMARINES, ETC you people can produce only small missile boats of 500 tons that can be easily dealt with Gunships as they lack SAM units. The last F 22P was a Chinese design and made under Chinese supervision.

 

[Varunastra]

Response from Pakistani Posters-

Response from Indian Posters-

 

[Omega007]

Pakistan builds its own APCs, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds its 100% present and future tank requirement now, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds 2 training aircrafts, which carry out 80% of our flight training, India doesn't.

Pakistan is building its own fighter aircraft, slated to replace 60% of our fighter fleet, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds its own small arms for military, India doesn't, minus the crap INSAS.

Pakistan builds howitzers at home, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds both medium and long range MBRLs at home, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds 80% of its MANPADs, India doesn't.

Almost 60% of Pakistan's ATGM rounds are Pakistan made, unlike Indian army.

Now Pakistan builds Frigates and subs at home too.

Pakistan satisfies almost 100% of its munitions requirements.

Moral of the story. When we increase our spending on defense, unlike India, most of it goes back to our GDP.

We don't need to 'match' India, we just have to develop at our own pace.

Huh,what a joke!!


"Own APCs"!!That ancient M 113 is anything but an "APC" by today's standards!!It's more like an armored car which can not protect the passengers from even 12.7mm API rounds.

Do continue to build such 100% Pakistani super duper APCs,meanwhile the world including India move ahead with heavy ICVs with far greater firepower.

Infact IA doesn't even like to use APCs in front-line service and hence they have moved at least 1800 BTR variants to reserve forces which themselves are better than your ancient M 113s in favour of locally produced BMP 2Ks.

That "100% Pakistani" tank has got virtually nothing Pakistani into it!!Heck Pakistan didn't even design it!!Pakistanis import all the components including the nuts and bolts and HIT just assembles them!!

Wow!!Pakistan is building its own fighter!!Seriously!!You really want us to believe in this crap that a country that can not produce even a bike engine by itself,has suddenly started to produce its own trainers and fighters!!This is the combined ill effects of inbreeding and madrass education at its worst!!

What was that about rifles again?? Pakistan produces its "OWN" rifles!!Seriously??!!Since when the HK G3 became Pakistan's own huh,you moron??
And INSAS is a "crap" huh??!!Yeah,tell that to your 1000 dead army soldiers of Kargil who got their @rses busted open by this baby!!And atleast the INSAS can be fitted with various optics and UBGLs with various programmable air bursting and incendiary grenades and ballistic computers,nothing of that sort for G3.
Your old G3 is more comparable to the SLR battle rifles which IA replaced with INSAS assault rifles.

Howitzers my @rse!!Eik mortar banane ki aukat nahin,aur howitzer ki baat karte hain!!Kya mazak hai??License assembling the Turkish MKEK Panter towed howitzer doesn't equal to actually building actually one by yourself!!You are still an importer,dependent on MKEK for all the subsystems and spares and you will remain as such in the years to come.

And who says India doesn't produce artillery pieces??What about the IFG,Dhanush 155mm L45 and Metamorphosis 155mm L45 guns!!??You sure haven't heard about those....have you??

Pakistan producing medium and long range MBRLs!!You mean that crap KRL 122??!!Huh....pathetic!!
Kid,wake up from your dream.India produces much much better and longer range MBRLs.Our new Pinaka can hit targets at 65 km distance,try harder next time kiddo.


India also produces all its MANPADS.IA uses Igla Ms,license produced by BEL!!

ATGMs!!You mean that wire guided Chinese crap which you guys renamed as Bakhtarshikan!!??It's a crap by today's standards.Even we produce better systems like Milan 2T and AT 5 Konkurs M ATGMs under license!!But guess what - Indian Army now considers them to be somewhat outdated for frontline use and is already in the process of replacing those with fire and forget ATGMs.The wire guided ones will be moved to reserve forces.

And who told you that India doesn't produce ATGMs??Your dad??Listen kiddo,India has been producing ATGMs and killing your soldiers with those since decades now.
Our new laser guided CLGM can be fired from Tanks' main guns,helicopter gunships and by individual soldiers!!

Our fire and forget 3rd gen Nag ATGM has gone into limited series production and the Helina is under user trials.

And you say India do not produce its own ATGMs.You are the last ones to lecture us on ATGMs,eik RPG tak banane ki aukath nehi,aur chalwin hain India ko ATGM ke barein mein lecture dene!!

Frigates and Subs!!Huh,tell me more!!Those F 22P junks wouldn't even be qualified to be frigates in Indian Navy,their corvettes are better armed than those junks!!
By the way,these F 22P are Chini maal,just like each and every other "Pakistani" weapons and weapon platforms!!

 

[SrNair]

Pakistan builds its own APCs, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds its 100% present and future tank requirement now, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds 2 training aircrafts, which carry out 80% of our flight training, India doesn't.

Pakistan is building its own fighter aircraft, slated to replace 60% of our fighter fleet, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds its own small arms for military, India doesn't, minus the crap INSAS.

Pakistan builds howitzers at home, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds both medium and long range MBRLs at home, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds 80% of its MANPADs, India doesn't.

Almost 60% of Pakistan's ATGM rounds are Pakistan made, unlike Indian army.

Now Pakistan builds Frigates and subs at home too.

Pakistan satisfies almost 100% of its munitions requirements.

Moral of the story. When we increase our spending on defense, unlike India, most of it goes back to our GDP.

We don't need to 'match' India, we just have to develop at our own pace.

India is constructing an ACC for 5billion $ something Pakistan cant imagine.
You guys dont have money and choices.But we have both of this .We cant get a numerical suprriority of China so we are resorting to quality.Quality weapons will always expensive.
If Pakistan have money then we can see their running in advanced weapons markets like Pak bought US Apache helis.

 

[spectribution]

Huh,what a joke!!


"Own APCs"!!That ancient M 113 is anything but an "APC" by today's standards!!It's more like an armored car which can not protect the passengers from even 12.7mm API rounds.

Do continue to build such 100% Pakistani super duper APCs,meanwhile the world including India move ahead with heavy ICVs with far greater firepower.

Infact IA doesn't even like to use APCs in front-line service and hence they have moved at least 1800 BTR variants to reserve forces which themselves are better than your ancient M 113s in favour of locally produced BMP 2Ks.

That "100% Pakistani" tank has got virtually nothing Pakistani into it!!Heck Pakistan didn't even design it!!Pakistanis import all the components including the nuts and bolts and HIT just assembles them!!

Wow!!Pakistan is building its own fighter!!Seriously!!You really want us to believe in this crap that a country that can not produce even a bike engine by itself,has suddenly started to produce its own trainers and fighters!!This is the combined ill effects of inbreeding and madrass education at its worst!!

What was that about rifles again?? Pakistan produces its "OWN" rifles!!Seriously??!!Since when the HK G3 became Pakistan's own huh,you moron??
And INSAS is a "crap" huh??!!Yeah,tell that to your 1000 dead army soldiers of Kargil who got their @rses busted open by this baby!!And atleast the INSAS can be fitted with various optics and UBGLs with various programmable air bursting and incendiary grenades and ballistic computers,nothing of that sort for G3.
Your old G3 is more comparable to the SLR battle rifles which IA replaced with INSAS assault rifles.

Howitzers my @rse!!Eik mortar banane ki aukat nahin,aur howitzer ki baat karte hain!!Kya mazak hai??License assembling the Turkish MKEK Panter towed howitzer doesn't equal to actually building actually one by yourself!!You are still an importer,dependent on MKEK for all the subsystems and spares and you will remain as such in the years to come.

And who says India doesn't produce artillery pieces??What about the IFG,Dhanush 155mm L45 and Metamorphosis 155mm L45 guns!!??You sure haven't heard about those....have you??

Pakistan producing medium and long range MBRLs!!You mean that crap KRL 122??!!Huh....pathetic!!
Kid,wake up from your dream.India produces much much better and longer range MBRLs.Our new Pinaka can hit targets at 65 km distance,try harder next time kiddo.


India also produces all its MANPADS.IA uses Igla Ms,license produced by BEL!!

ATGMs!!You mean that wire guided Chinese crap which you guys renamed as Bakhtarshikan!!??It's a crap by today's standards.Even we produce better systems like Milan 2T and AT 5 Konkurs M ATGMs under license!!But guess what - Indian Army now considers them to be somewhat outdated for frontline use and is already in the process of replacing those with fire and forget ATGMs.The wire guided ones will be moved to reserve forces.

And who told you that India doesn't produce ATGMs??Your dad??Listen kiddo,India has been producing ATGMs and killing your soldiers with those since decades now.
Our new laser guided CLGM can be fired from Tanks' main guns,helicopter gunships and by individual soldiers!!

Our fire and forget 3rd gen Nag ATGM has gone into limited series production and the Helina is under user trials.

And you say India do not produce its own ATGMs.You are the last ones to lecture us on ATGMs,eik RPG tak banane ki aukath nehi,aur chalwin hain India ko ATGM ke barein mein lecture dene!!

Frigates and Subs!!Huh,tell me more!!Those F 22P junks wouldn't even be qualified to be frigates in Indian Navy,their corvettes are better armed than those junks!!
By the way,these F 22P are Chini maal,just like each and every other "Pakistani" weapons and weapon platforms!!

They don't even make the howitzers! They "import" it! No ToT, instead ToT was a 2007 rag of an urdu article. The Panther suprisingly has similar performance to Dhanush, except our Dhanush is maneuverable and has a better rate of fire!

 

[SrNair]

There is no such thing called balance that mentioned in this article.Balance was titlted for our favour long time ago,decades ago.
We are increasing our military in proportion to our economy.

 

[Zhukov]

That's all Pakistanis can do but We don't care. You'll see more hike in defence budget in coming years.

Who cares. Your poor will suffer on the cost of failed projects and corruption in pointless Expensive Imports like Rafale when you already had su30 for present and PAKFA for future.
We have no problem with it.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Thanks God he didn't said that PAK Satellite program are ahead of India. we achieved everything in 6 months what india achieved over decades.

 

[OrionHunter]

Pakistan builds its own APCs, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds its 100% present and future tank requirement now, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds 2 training aircrafts, which carry out 80% of our flight training, India doesn't.

Pakistan is building its own fighter aircraft, slated to replace 60% of our fighter fleet, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds its own small arms for military, India doesn't, minus the crap INSAS.

Pakistan builds howitzers at home, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds both medium and long range MBRLs at home, India doesn't.

Pakistan builds 80% of its MANPADs, India doesn't.

Almost 60% of Pakistan's ATGM rounds are Pakistan made, unlike Indian army.

Now Pakistan builds Frigates and subs at home too.

Pakistan satisfies almost 100% of its munitions requirements.

Moral of the story. When we increase our spending on defense, unlike India, most of it goes back to our GDP.

We don't need to 'match' India, we just have to develop at our own pace.

But India has quality stuff, Pakistan does not! Period!

For eg, you can't compare the Jf-17 to the SU-30 MKI or the Rafale, can you? And most of the stuff you mentioned is with Chinese collaboration! So please don't bullshit us! Thanks!

 

[FunkyGen]

Response from Pakistani Posters-

Response from Indian Posters-

Yours in photoshopperred....

Pakistan builds its own APCs, India doesn't.
Pakistan builds its 100% present and future tank requirement now, India doesn't.
Pakistan builds 2 training aircrafts, which carry out 80% of our flight training, India doesn't.
Pakistan is building its own fighter aircraft, slated to replace 60% of our fighter fleet, India doesn't.
Pakistan builds its own small arms for military, India doesn't, minus the crap INSAS.
Pakistan builds howitzers at home, India doesn't.
Pakistan builds both medium and long range MBRLs at home, India doesn't.
Pakistan builds 80% of its MANPADs, India doesn't.
Almost 60% of Pakistan's ATGM rounds are Pakistan made, unlike Indian army.
Now Pakistan builds Frigates and subs at home too.
Pakistan satisfies almost 100% of its munitions requirements.
Moral of the story. When we increase our spending on defense, unlike India, most of it goes back to our GDP.
We don't need to 'match' India, we just have to develop at our own pace.

 

[FunkyGen]