Pakistani corner

[Zarvan]

Fighting and taking up arms will not free Kashmir(it is a dead end), peaceful resolution is the only solution. We don't seem to have to a policy to engage the other party. Taking up arms will only create and have only created more problems. We had sympathy of the world before arms were taken up in Kashmir, our opinion was strong and the world was backing us. As per my father, 'Taking up arms has only weaken our stance.'
Getting the youth to fight is not a solution, we need to resolve it in a peaceful manner.
PS: I am a Gilgiti, i have the same sympathy for the occupied people. We will free our people one day.
@Zarvan ,@Jonah Arthur ,@haviZsultan ...
@Joe Shearer

Sorry but I totally disagree. It's talks which won't give you any solution ultimately you would have to fight a war.

 

[untitled]

Hi guys! I wanted to know your opinions on fasting. I normally don't fast but I am always very curious about why others do. I want to know where my thinking is wrong, and feel free to criticize as that is the only way to truly grow as a person and live a better life.

Ramadan/Ramzan is more than fasting and fasting is more than just abstaining from food. The Quran's revelation started in the month of Ramazan and Shab e Qadr also comes in the last ten days of the month.

Fasting during Ramzan is mandatory but that does not mean one should not fast during the other months of the year if his/her health allows.

Fasting is not unique to Islam. Almost every religion practices some form of fasting.

 

[WAJsal]

Sorry but I totally disagree. It's talks which won't give you any solution ultimately you would have to fight a war.

And war will not give a solution too. In fact they will only increase the troubles of Kashmiri people(and it has too). Then again who cares since they are the ones suffering not us or our relatives.

 

[Burhan Wani]

Fighting and taking up arms will not free Kashmir(it is a dead end), peaceful resolution is the only solution. We don't seem to have to a policy to engage the other party. Taking up arms will only create and have only created more problems. We had sympathy of the world before arms were taken up in Kashmir, our opinion was strong and the world was backing us. As per my father, 'Taking up arms has only weaken our stance.'
Getting the youth to fight is not a solution, we need to resolve it in a peaceful manner.
PS: I am a Gilgiti, i have the same sympathy for the occupied people. We will free our people one day.
@Zarvan ,@Jonah Arthur ,@haviZsultan ...
@Joe Shearer

My opinion is simple "talk talk fight fight".
Thousand times we invited aggressor for talks but they refused to sit on table, if they want to settle the dispute on ground we have a power to show them by the grace of Almighty.

 

[Maj.Osmani]

Caption Time

 

[Joe Shearer]

Fighting and taking up arms will not free Kashmir(it is a dead end), peaceful resolution is the only solution. We don't seem to have to a policy to engage the other party. Taking up arms will only create and have only created more problems. We had sympathy of the world before arms were taken up in Kashmir, our opinion was strong and the world was backing us. As per my father, 'Taking up arms has only weaken our stance.'
Getting the youth to fight is not a solution, we need to resolve it in a peaceful manner.
PS: I am a Gilgiti, i have the same sympathy for the occupied people. We will free our people one day.
@Zarvan ,@Jonah Arthur ,@haviZsultan ...
@Joe Shearer

I couldn't agree with you more, and not just from the Indian or the Kashmiri points of view. Taking to genuine talks to resolve the issue is good for Pakistan as well.

Another thing that needs to be said is that as long as natives of the Kashmir Valley were involved, the world was not unsympathetic. Once it became a national policy objective for Pakistan, and once a long line of volunteers from the terrorist farms of Muridke presented themselves for an early despatch and an anonymous grave, the world shrugged, decided that the actors, the mentors and the sponsors were all terrorists, and put a label on your country that will be very hard to remove.

When it comes to the two alternatives, making war and sitting still and doing nothing, you will gain the most by doing nothing, even more than by talking. By doing nothing, you allow the focus of attention to be on the Kashmiris themselves, and that might have a greater effect on the world than wrapping yourselves up in a patriotic frenzy.

The most curious part of the business is that there are those proposing a war. The fact of using armed terrorists is a tacit admission that there is no war to be won. The fact that Kargil was wrested back without a general outbreak of hostilities, and that initial reports claimed that the entrenched and armed intruders were irregulars, freedom fighters rather than uniformed soldiers masquerading in mufti, is another tacit admission that there is no war to be won. What was true in these cases was true of Siachen also. If there was a possibility of fighting and winning a war, on that occasion, hostilities ought to have erupted almost right away. That was the closest to a genuine cause for war that Pakistan has had. And yet there is talk of war.

There is no solution to this problem but a reasonable, negotiated one.

Sorry but I totally disagree. It's talks which won't give you any solution ultimately you would have to fight a war.

That is fine, but why on earth would you fight a war when you know you cannot win?

 

[Zarvan]

I couldn't agree with you more, and not just from the Indian or the Kashmiri points of view. Taking to genuine talks to resolve the issue is good for Pakistan as well.

Another thing that needs to be said is that as long as natives of the Kashmir Valley were involved, the world was not unsympathetic. Once it became a national policy objective for Pakistan, and once a long line of volunteers from the terrorist farms of Muridke presented themselves for an early despatch and an anonymous grave, the world shrugged, decided that the actors, the mentors and the sponsors were all terrorists, and put a label on your country that will be very hard to remove.

When it comes to the two alternatives, making war and sitting still and doing nothing, you will gain the most by doing nothing, even more than by talking. By doing nothing, you allow the focus of attention to be on the Kashmiris themselves, and that might have a greater effect on the world than wrapping yourselves up in a patriotic frenzy.

The most curious part of the business is that there are those proposing a war. The fact of using armed terrorists is a tacit admission that there is no war to be won. The fact that Kargil was wrested back without a general outbreak of hostilities, and that initial reports claimed that the entrenched and armed intruders were irregulars, freedom fighters rather than uniformed soldiers masquerading in mufti, is another tacit admission that there is no war to be won. What was true in these cases was true of Siachen also. If there was a possibility of fighting and winning a war, on that occasion, hostilities ought to have erupted almost right away. That was the closest to a genuine cause for war that Pakistan has had. And yet there is talk of war.

There is no solution to this problem but a reasonable, negotiated one.



That is fine, but why on earth would you fight a war when you know you cannot win?

Well you think we can't win but we know we can win

 

[Joe Shearer]

Well you think we can't win but we know we can win

I understand. I was talking about logic, on the other hand. If you look at it from that perspective, it looks very different.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[Maj.Osmani]

@Oscar
I am not able to post anything or reply on
Kashmir War section

 

[I.R.A]

Hi guys! I wanted to know your opinions on fasting. I normally don't fast but I am always very curious about why others do. I want to know where my thinking is wrong, and feel free to criticize as that is the only way to truly grow as a person and live a better life.

It’s weird, this Ramadan, “not fasting” has been bothering me the most. I guess I am trying to analyze the reason behind it in depth. Islam is all about intentions and intentions are a tricky thing. They are so complicated. Most of us have been conditioned to think we believe in this religion since birth, to think that this is the absolute truth. We are human after all, our biology makes us vulnerable to conditioning. Everything we believe is somewhere someone else’s opinion. So where exactly is the true us in all of this? How do we know our opinion is truly our own? Human beings are very selfish creatures, which is only natural since survival is our primary instinct. Why do we fast? Out of fear? Do we do it because we are afraid of punishment. We all want heaven, is that it? There we only end up looking out for ourselves and feeding our inherent nature. Do we fast out of love? But how can we fast for love when a majority of us don’t even know what it is? Is love always obedience? We don’t even know who “we” are until we deconstruct ourselves completely. By doing that we are purifying our intentions, we are not only fighting the constructs fed to us since birth by society and our family, but also our human nature in itself. Even if we say it’s for god (we don't know what god is), how much of that is for our internal satisfaction that we get when we think we are pleasing “the most powerful” than actually for god. Say we get the intentions down, then the question is what is it that we are loving, that requires deconstructing the religion fully, how can you love something you don’t fully know or understand the depths of? Do it because god is merciful and great? We can call something greatness or mercy while someone else can argue that same thing to first of all be there because of god. God is the reason that humans are subjected to all of this. If we didn’t exist to begin with, we simply won’t have to go through all these vicissitudes. We wouldn’t have to worry about the day of judgment and go through suffering. We can then say that we should still look at the positives and thank god as a certain condition is not as bad as it could have been (since everything is relative). But do we just say that 80% because we are helpless and we don't have have much of an option, it's either that or be bitter and ungrateful about it, which causes unhappiness to no one but yourself. So it’s never black and white. Similarly, human emotions have so many selfish atoms in them that they are almost always corrupt in one way or another. How do we know it’s out of love and not out of the desperate attempts to find something concrete to hold onto in this world of uncertainty we have been thrown into. It’s all about intentions. If there is a god, I highly doubt it’s the fasts that count, but the intentions behind it. And purifying intentions takes years if not decades. So, I think to myself, why fast if my heart’s not fully and truly into that act of worship or true passion. I can only speak for myself as I don’t know anyone else’s intentions. But this is how I kind of feel. What do you guys think and what are your opinions? You don't have to reply, but I'd love to hear your opinions.

@Horus @RAMPAGE @Akheilos @Armstrong @Pakistanisage

I hope you won't mind if I take the liberty to share my two cents.

It's simple ................................ do it to feel how being hungry and thirsty feels like, how controlling your anger while you are thirsty feels like, how respecting others even when they are at fault feels like ................ do it because you would not learn unless you experience it yourself. It is not about earning heaven or aiming for hell, HE can forgive and punish whoever HE wants. If HE wants HE can send me to heaven or if HE wants HE can send me to hell, it is all HIS decision and I pray for HIS mercy in my case, because if HE does justice I will loose.

We cannot blame HIM, HE gave us the perfect world (even today if you look at pictures of places where civilisation has not reached you admire the beauty and scenery at least I do) and created us intelligent, empowered to make our own decisions, even provided direction from time to time, it is not HIS fault what we made of this world ............................. try to think about WHY part of HIS orders. Why HE wants me to fast? Why HE wants me to pay Zakat? Why HE wants me to pray? Why is it that Satan is barred during Ramadan but still we commit crimes?

May be HE wants us to be humane, just and full of humility (how can someone be humane, just and full of humility), a disobedient, self centric, rude person cannot attain this unless he starts following what HE wants from us. Otherwise if HE wanted HE could have created robots deprived of their own rational thinking and decision making, made fit to simply follow orders and instructions or Angels would have sufficed.

 

[WAJsal]

That is fine, but why on earth would you fight a war when you know you cannot win?

Well you think we can't win but we know we can win

War is what we will end having, unfortunately.

Another thing that needs to be said is that as long as natives of the Kashmir Valley were involved, the world was not unsympathetic. Once it became a national policy objective for Pakistan, and once a long line of volunteers from the terrorist farms of Muridke presented themselves for an early despatch and an anonymous grave, the world shrugged, decided that the actors, the mentors and the sponsors were all terrorists, and put a label on your country that will be very hard to remove.

When it comes to the two alternatives, making war and sitting still and doing nothing, you will gain the most by doing nothing, even more than by talking. By doing nothing, you allow the focus of attention to be on the Kashmiris themselves, and that might have a greater effect on the world than wrapping yourselves up in a patriotic frenzy.

Actually we(the Kashmiris) had the worlds support and sympathy, we thought we could repeat what we did in Afghanistan. Policy has done nothing but harm our cause. By peacefully protesting and peaceful negotiations we gain more than we lose.
Kashmiris seek the right to choose and they deserve the right to choose. India should look to impose this and so should Pakistan.

Would add this post here as it is related to the discussion that we are having @Joe Shearer ...

This forum is full of educated, intelligent and prudent members. Let us ignore the emotions and understand the following ground reality:

“Pakistan is not strong enough nor likely to be in the foreseeable to liberate Kashmir from India by force and Indians are not likely to “gift” Kashmir to Pakistan.”

Both India & Pakistan have the nuclear weapons and any serious conflict involving nuclear exchange would simply kill about a million citizens of both the countries, but it would still not liberate Kashmir.

Therefore one needs to think outside the box to find solution of the Kashmir problem. Who owns the real estate is not relevant. Most important thing is that the Kashmiris on both sides of the border are able to intermingle & do business together without too much hindrance.

Once you have freedom of movement of the Kashmiri people between the two parts (Like Canada & the US) the border becomes largely irrelevant & the problem is resolved automatically. Pak Army High Command realized it more than 10 years ago. That is why Musharraf started the Confidence Building Measures (CBM) with the Vajpayee regime. However, subsequent political regimes lack the courage and the vision to pursue this approach.

I keep repeating that retrogressive religious -political parties who were against the creation of Pakistan have hijacked Pakistan ideology. Elected representatives are afraid of the bigoted Maulana Masood Azhar & Munawwar Hassans of today who will never be able to win electoral mandate from Pakistan people.

No doubt some Jamaat Islami followers still believe that they can conquer Lal Qila of Delhi armed with 'lathis' because they have the ‘Jazba’ of Islam. Sadly many naïve Pakistanis also believe this non sense.

If being a Muslim & having ‘Jazba’ alone could conquer the world, pagan Mongols would have not have been able to massacre millions of Muslims including the Abbasside Khalifa Al Mustasim in 1258 or the kafir English able to conquer India and the Ottoman Turks.

 

[WAJsal]

@Mr.Meap ...

 

[Moon]

@Mr.Meap ...

I cringed so hard at that DJ part.... What was he saying in the beginning?

 

[Gufi]

War is what we will end having, unfortunately.

why do you not bring in Kashmiri opinions here... so typical to debate the future without bringing in real stakeholders... @Armstrong