Pakistani cities' history before islam

[Sliver]

This is what happens when u try to analyse others in yr own grounds.
There r cities in our region who came into being because of King's orders like Gujranwala.

Anyways in Pakistan we have a Desire of remaining the cities,places and other stuff or related towards Islam as Pakistan was the country born for Muslims only and represents Muslims much like Israel. Do u know the original name of Jerusalem, Tel Aviv etc?

Sure u dont know nor u wanna know but u r more interested in Pakistan!

Atleast in Pakistan we didnt renamed something after Independence. The names like Faisalabad,Jalalabad r centuries old and we r Happy with them. Even India also has Ghaziabad, Ahmedabad,Allahbad etc etc names in their country.

Islamabad is First First man made Capital. It became operational in 71 so its name has to be an Arabic/farsi name which it is.

My friend if u want to develop an identity then its better to make on the facts accepted by people in this country which is really important.

If u want to go into historic fact debate then there is no limit to it we can even go as back as prehistoric times.

The point is in this Digital age not a lot of people care of what happened in 1000 years ago etc. People now a days more like live in today and think of a better tomorrow then remaining or remembering past.



Sanskrit actually originated from Pakistan.

This is not about israel,

This is not about if Pakistan should be islamic or not (Thats your decision)

Its not about going back.

Its only about inforation on how the cities' names/history got here.

Sincere request to not derail the thread.

You are getting in israel here and why I dnot not want to talk about it. This particular thread is only to understand south asian history through the ages. Please contribute to it with your knowledge of anything that is pre-islamic (because I get the islamic history quite easily).

 

[KingMamba]

This is not about israel,

This is not about if Pakistan should be islamic or not (Thats your decision)

Its not about going back.

Its only about inforation on how the cities' names/history got here.

Sincere request to not derail the thread.

You are getting in israel here and why I dnot not want to talk about it. This particular thread is only to understand south asian history through the ages. Please contribute to it with your knowledge of anything that is pre-islamic (because I get the islamic history quite easily).

Are you of South Asian origin or just generally interested?

 

[somebozo]

Multan was known as the city of gold before arabs looted it!

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

some of pakistan's cities that I know of - Islamabad, Faisalabad, Jalalabad, Abbotabad are "islamic" names. Surely with the immense amount of history in the region, these cities (if they existed before) would have other names before islam (and other names during each "occupation") I am trying to get a rough time line of different cities in the region to arrive at how all these "paths" coincided to get a collective Pakistan. The idea is the develop the "identity" of the region based on historical facts. It is not only the place where you are that is important. It is also how you arrived there.

Islamabad, is a new city. Abbotabad was named after Major James Abbott who founded the town and district in January 1853. Jalabad is in Afghanistan. So out of 4 only Faisalabad was named after 1947 after Faisal King of Saudi Arabia lol.

Was Sanskrit spoken in Pakistan?

Sanskrit origen is Pakistan Punjab.

 

[Sliver]

Islamabad, is a new city. Abbotabad was named after Major James Abbott who founded the town and district in January 1853. Jalabad is in Afghanistan. So out of 4 only Faisalabad was named after 1947 after Faisal King of Saudi Arabia lol.



Sanskrit origen is Pakistan Punjab.

My bad -

The intention of the post was to to show that there IS islamization of the areas and rightly so. All I wanted was the history behind each of the ancient cities (not the new ones) what has happened to the ethnic populations - do they still have any customs/traditions as a spill over? Thats all.

The idea was to figure out the amalgamation of Pakistan (and the region as a whole)

 

[INDIC]

Islamabad, is a new city. Abbotabad was named after Major James Abbott who founded the town and district in January 1853. Jalabad is in Afghanistan. So out of 4 only Faisalabad was named after 1947 after Faisal King of Saudi Arabia lol.
.

Amarkot, the birthplace of Emperor Akbar was renamed to Umarkot.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

My bad -

The intention of the post was to to show that there IS islamization of the areas and rightly so. All I wanted was the history behind each of the ancient cities (not the new ones) what has happened to the ethnic populations - do they still have any customs/traditions as a spill over? Thats all.

The idea was to figure out the amalgamation of Pakistan (and the region as a whole)

Customs/ Culture: They are not Islamic since every ethnicity in Pakistan have different culture and is ancient.

Languages: Again the same as before Islam come, but with influence of Arabic/Persia.

Genetics: Hardly any influence by Islamic invaders as proven by latest DNA tests, unlike for example Iran.

Pakistanis converted to Islam but didn't become arabs/persians like for example Egypt did.

 

[Sliver]

Customs/ Culture: They are not Islamic since every ethnicity in Pakistan have different culture and is ancient.

Languages: Again the same as before Islam come, but with influence of Arabic/Persia.

Genetics: Hardly any influence by Islamic invaders as proven by latest DNA tests, unlike for example Iran.

Pakistanis converted to Islam but didn't become arabs/persians like for example Egypt did.

Peshawar (and the region) had a huge Kushan and gandhara influence for a thousand years before it was taken over by central asians for another 500-800 years. The mughals ruled it in parts and it was also held for brief periods by marathas and Sikhs. Do we see the cultures and traditions ingrained from these influences in the region?

Usually when the names if the cities are kept intact, the history of these places follows. When people ask themselves "why is this city named so" the history that was connected to the place comes forth. Thus enabling us to track down the continuity of the culture.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

karachi didnt even exist few decades ago, the lyari area was baloch area, but baloch have been in sindh for a long time, doesnt make sindh a baloch area, same thing with lyari area which was never a baloch area, but it contained baloch settlers coming from makran

Sir jee it was part of talpur kingdom etc..

Karachi never existed before Islam , Its Debal that Existed before , The port of Debal Near Mansura(now known as Thatta) .

Their are some folks that few villages were existed in western coasts of Karachi which were Infact the part of Makran coast(Balochistan).

It was known to the arabs as debal... to the greeks krokola,Morontobara, Barbarikon to the indo greeks... than mai kolachi a small fishing village ... etc.

Peshawar (and the region) had a huge Kushan and gandhara influence for a thousand years before it was taken over by central asians for another 500-800 years. The mughals ruled it in parts and it was also held for brief periods by marathas and Sikhs. Do we see the cultures and traditions ingrained from these influences in the region?

Usually when the names if the cities are kept intact, the history of these places follows. When people ask themselves "why is this city named so" the history that was connected to the place comes forth. Thus enabling us to track down the continuity of the culture.

Maratha? nope... yes sikhs for a mere decade or two.. bcoz of a weak king ... and after the mughals were screwed.

 

[American Pakistani]

AFAIK Karachi was part of Balochistan not Sind but anyways Balochistan or Karachi or Sind all have same motherland Pakistan.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Peshawar (and the region) had a huge Kushan and gandhara influence for a thousand years before it was taken over by central asians for another 500-800 years. The mughals ruled it in parts and it was also held for brief periods by marathas and Sikhs. Do we see the cultures and traditions ingrained from these influences in the region?

Usually when the names if the cities are kept intact, the history of these places follows. When people ask themselves "why is this city named so" the history that was connected to the place comes forth. Thus enabling us to track down the continuity of the culture.

What do you mean by Central Asians? Again almost every city in Pakistan have historic name many have said in this thread. Only Faisalabad name was changed after partition. And you right if the reason names are intact is because religion changed but not peolple living in it.

 

[Nassr]

The oldest known cities of Pakistan are Mehrgarh (7000 BC - 2500 BC) in the Province of Balochistan, Harappa (3300 BC – 1300 BC) in the Province of Punjab and Mohenjodaro (2600 BC – 1900 BC) in Sindh.

Read these to find out as to how it all began:

From Meluhha To Pakistan: The Embodiment Of A Civilization - OpEd Eurasia Review

Pakistan: The True Heir Of Indus Valley Civilization - Analysis Eurasia Review

 

[Aka123]

I am going to give a short "timeline" for each city. They may be slightly off target but bear with me while I work on the research.

Starting with Peshawar:

origins: (not sure/unknown/debatable -> but in records)
It has been argued that an ancient city named Pushkalwati, founded by Bharata's son Pushkal, from the Indian epic Ramayana, may have existed in this general area during early Indo-Iranian times before their invasion past the Indus into South

Known Origins:
The region containing the present city of Peshawar was associated with Gandhara kingdom (prior to 500 BC) as Purushapura was annexed by Achaemenid Empire (around 500 BC - 400 BC). It was annexed later for a brief period by Alexander the great before being ceded to Chandragupta Mourya (300 BC to 200 BC).

It then went to Greco-Bactrian Kingdoms (170-150BC).
To Gondopharid dynasty (central asians) (until the firct centruy AD)

before falling back to Kushans (Kujula Kadphises, grand father of kanishka I) during the furst century AD. Kanishka built the largest Buddhist Stupa there which was recorded to be in existence during 634 AD

Turkic Muslims invaded the area by 988 AD
Babur (Mughals) established Begram (are close to Peshawar in 1530)
Akbar (Mughal) formally named the place Peshawar

Went to Persian control under Nadir shah in 18th century (early 1700's) and joined Ahmad Shah Durrani' Pakthun regions in 1747.

1758 it came under Marathas,
he city remained under Maratha control till year 1759 in which Abdali forces reconquered the fort.

The final leg before Pakistan's independence, The Sikhs invaded and conquered Peshawar in 1834 after wresting it from Afghanistan. The city was under Sikh control following the death of Ranjit Singh, before which Hari Singh Nalwa completely controlled the area. The British influenced and then ultimately ruled the region from 1849 to 1947, when it became part of the new nation of Pakistan.


If we, for time being, assume Gandhara to be an indigenous Indo-Iranian culture separate from the Vedic culture (The name Gāndhāra is not recorded in Vedic Sanskrit, it first occurs in the Classical Sanskrit of the epics.(from wikipedia on gandhara).

The area was repeatedly captured by greeks, persians, mongols (mughals), turkic, central asian, Indian peoples.

That city must be loaded in historic layers one on top of the other. I request forum members from that city to kindly share any pictures that they may have depicting each of these layers.



some of pakistan's cities that I know of - Islamabad, Faisalabad, Jalalabad, Abbotabad are "islamic" names. Surely with the immense amount of history in the region, these cities (if they existed before) would have other names before islam (and other names during each "occupation") I am trying to get a rough time line of different cities in the region to arrive at how all these "paths" coincided to get a collective Pakistan. The idea is the develop the "identity" of the region based on historical facts. It is not only the place where you are that is important. It is also how you arrived there.

Hey India also has numerous city names ending with bad. Moradabad, Faridabad, Aurangabad, Hyderabad, Secundrabad, Allahabad, Gaziabad, Ahmedabad. Don't think it has anything to do with Islamization.

 

[True pakistani 22]

Mandi Bahauddin City old Name Gondal Bar
Gujrat city old name Gujjar Nagari Something like that

 

[Sliver]

What do you mean by Central Asians? Again almost every city in Pakistan have historic name many have said in this thread. Only Faisalabad name was changed after partition. And you right if the reason names are intact is because religion changed but not peolple living in it.

By central asian I mean a large set of population that is not arab/european/chinese or european. Should include mongols and Persians.