Pakistani artillery vs Terror camps in Afghanistan.

[Kompromat]

This is a rough sketch made by me to try and understand why artillery backed by the intelligence assets is enough to deal with JuAh, TTP, ISIS infrastructure in Afghanistan.

Location : Nurestan, Kunar, Nangarhar.
Disclaimer : The sketch only represents pivots. Axis of fire can vary.
Objective : To create a buffer zone, target camps, ammunition dumps, tunnels and hideouts used to wait for a point of entry into Pakistan to launch attacks.

Red = 155mm Howitzer max range estimate.
Blue = A-100 MBRL max range estimate (Not deployed but option is available)
122mm MBRL range would be identical to the Red.

 

[YeBeWarned]

can we use NASR too ? not as nuclear attack but conventional weapon ..

 

[Pakistani E]

@Horus

Why are we so afraid to accept that SF on the ground are guiding/participating in these strikes?

 

[British SAS]

can we use NASR too ? not as nuclear attack but conventional weapon ..

Buffer zone my friend, buffer zone. Repatriating afghan refugees ought to be the next step.

 

[Kompromat]

Why use missiles when cheaper 155mm shells have enough range and fire-power?

can we use NASR too ? not as nuclear attack but conventional weapon ..

 

[YeBeWarned]

@Horus

Why are we so afraid to accept that SF on the ground are guiding/participating in these strikes?

where did you get this Information about SF been used ?

Why use missiles when cheaper 155mm shells have enough range and fire-power?

That make sense , but i just wanted to know if we can or not, but to take down a high level target we can think ..

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The time for "Doval the Devil's very own last Afgan" to have a thumbs-down is coming very soon!!!!

 

[Menace2Society]

Need to set up a PAF and drone rapid response unit to act on intelligence and drop sorties across the border along with this.

A ground invasion is a definite no but SSG and ISI can sneak in under night cover and poison crops and water and f**k them with bio weapons.

 

[Shiji]

Did you just put the guns directly on the border?
It's a decent attempt but must keep a few things in mind.
Guns arcs of fire are shown by a V extending from the C of A, 400 mils either side. Not by a straight line.
Guns aren't deployed on the border.
Guns range and deadzone (area unable to be covered by the fire of any gun) vary due to crest problems in mountanious areas.
Crest and mountainous terrain also decreases effectiveness of arty shells.
Arty does not guarantee casualities it guarantees supression.
Ground cannot be held by arty alone.
Max range on paper is not achieved in ops due to numerous reasons.
Using A100 is an overkill and unecessary.
Border can be easily held by
25 Pdrs, 155mms and the 130 for deeper engagments.

 

[Kompromat]

They can be used from fortified border positions. The purpose was to show max range.

Did you just put the guns directly on the border?
It's a decent attempt but must keep a few things in mind.
Guns arcs of fire are shown by a V extending from the C of A, 400 mils either side. Not by a straight line.
Guns aren't deployed on the border.
Guns range and deadzone (area unable to be covered by the fire of any gun) vary due to crest problems in mountanious areas.
Crest and mountainous terrain also decreases effectiveness of arty shells.
Arty does not guarantee casualities it guarantees supression.
Ground cannot be held by arty alone.
Max range on paper is not achieved in ops due to numerous reasons.
Using A100 is an overkill and unecessary.
Border can be easily held by
25 Pdrs, 155mms and the 130 for deeper engagments.

 

[Shiji]

They can be used from fortified border positions. The purpose was to show max range.

"Can be" does not define a military argument. The only weapon weapons to be placed on the borders are the 60 mm or rarely the 81 mm mortar because the fire of these weapons can be brought at short distance.
Now the Actual reason for NOT putting guns ON the border.
Pak - Afghan border has high mountain series that overlook the lower afghan side. Hence posts and pickets are placed there, If you were to place the guns exactly there than you WILL NOT be able to engage a target that creeps up lets say within almost 2000 ms from the guns because the gun will not be able to fire in negative elevation.
Hence any terrorist within heavy weapon range of the OP possing as a threat will not be liable to cover by arty which defeats the artys purpose.
Plus it will be a logistical nightmare because guns usually go out of action during intense engagments.
Gun Posns are sited next to either next to HQs with multiple C of As to cover the whole bde frontage.
Plus what max range did you take for the 155?

 

[Signalian]

"Can be" does not define a military argument. The only weapon weapons to be placed on the borders are the 60 mm or rarely the 81 mm mortar because the fire of these weapons can be brought at short distance.
Now the Actual reason for NOT putting guns ON the border.
Pak - Afghan border has high mountain series that overlook the lower afghan side. Hence posts and pickets are placed there, If you were to place the guns exactly there than you WILL NOT be able to engage a target that creeps up lets say within almost 2000 ms from the guns because the gun will not be able to fire in negative elevation.
Hence any terrorist within heavy weapon range of the OP possing as a threat will not be liable to cover by arty which defeats the artys purpose.
Plus it will be a logistical nightmare because guns usually go out of action during intense engagments.
Gun Posns are sited next to either next to HQs with multiple C of As to cover the whole bde frontage.
Plus what max range did you take for the 155?

Gun battery placed in battlefield (whether on border) always has a security belt around it. they are not left un-attended to be targeted easily by enemy infantry. Mortars can be placed at border for retaliatory fire if according to your scenario insurgents do creep up near the posts. FC can also use mortars to give covering fire.

Unless a camp or fixed target is placed behind a crest, Howitzers are very effective.
In any case ,the howitzers will be targeting fixed positions, not individuals.

They can be used from fortified border positions. The purpose was to show max range.

They can be placed anywhere, whether on border or 3-4 km behind border. You showed max range which can be achieved through different types of ammo

 

[Shiji]

Gun battery placed in battlefield (whether on border) always has a security belt around it. they are not left un-attended to be targeted easily by enemy infantry. Mortars can be placed at border for retaliatory fire if according to your scenario insurgents do creep up near the posts. FC can also use mortars to give covering fire.

Unless a camp or fixed target is placed behind a crest, Howitzers are very effective.
In any case ,the howitzers will be targeting fixed positions, not individuals.

Ask a jawan the difference between morale boost between a 81 mor and a 155 mm he will tell you. Posts ARE never left without arty support it would be criminal. It's the most basic step of planning.
In the Tribal belt the type of fortification that the houses have it is very rare that a structure collapses from even a direct artillery hit.

Gun battery placed in battlefield (whether on border) always has a security belt around it. they are not left un-attended to be targeted easily by enemy infantry. Mortars can be placed at border for retaliatory fire if according to your scenario insurgents do creep up near the posts. FC can also use mortars to give covering fire.

Unless a camp or fixed target is placed behind a crest, Howitzers are very effective.
In any case ,the howitzers will be targeting fixed positions, not individuals.


They can be placed anywhere, whether on border or 3-4 km behind border. You showed max range which can be achieved through different types of ammo

The biggest calibre that is placed on the border is 3.7 inch, the 35 mm, the 60 or rarely the 81 mor.
Max range IS NOT achieved, think for a second. The arty pieces in ops area are the ones that have fired continously since the WOT. Full charges are not used on them.

 

[war&peace]

can we use NASR too ? not as nuclear attack but conventional weapon ..

NASR without nuke is very very expensive weapon as compared to A100 rockets which can be launched rapidly and cover the range needed. NASR is against our enemy i.e. india and it will always be nuke tipped. However in addition to artillery we should commando action and helicopters to take down the fleeing terrorists. If the strikes are well coordinated then it can literally eliminate all the terrorists.

 

[Signalian]

Ask a jawan the difference between morale boost between a 81 mor and a 155 mm he will tell you. Posts ARE never left without arty support it would be criminal. It's the most basic step of planning.
In the Tribal belt the type of fortification that the houses have it is very rare that a structure collapses from even a direct artillery hit.


The biggest calibre that is placed on the border is 3.7 inch, the 35 mm, the 60 or rarely the 81 mor.
Max range IS NOT achieved, think for a second. The arty pieces in ops area are the ones that have fired continously since the WOT. Full charges are not used on them.

Your argument is flawed from the start.

Firstly, a ground operation is being conducted which means other arms are also present else than artillery therefore there is adequate security present around artillery positions. This also means that all calibres of weapons have reached the border to take part in Ops so discussing 3.7" or 35mm or 81mm mortar doesnt make any sense. The way you described of insurgent sneaking up behind a crest is not possible with a large number of troops present in Ops area.

Secondly, a constant barrage of 18 guns using approx 40kg shells of 155mm calibre are enough to cause massive amount of damage. If every fortification was super strong then PA would not be using artillery at all and just rely on PAF JDAM's or MLRS missiles. In fact then PA wouldnt be using artillery at all in FATA but PA used artillery very effectively in tribal areas.

Thirdly, Different calibre weapons have been used in WOT ops. 105mm used followed by 122mm.
The 155mm towed guns are short in number and are deployed on eastern border. The towed 155mm are M-198, M-114 and Panter. M-114 is outdated and has short range compared to others. There are around 150 M-198 and 70 or so panter.
In contrast there are 480+ 122mm and almost 400+ 105mm guns and these were the most widely used guns in PA WOT ops.