Pakistani artillery vs Terror camps in Afghanistan.

[imadul]

1. TTP and JuA will just move their double and single beds away from artly range.
2. They are not regular army to be suppressed by artly.
3. They will move training centers further deep out of artly range.
4. Their operations will not be disrupted if they move inside afg urban areas. They are looking to send human bombers few times a year and that will be enough to cause fear and helplessness all across Pakistan. Presumably they are working in cohot with NDS, Afg Govt, and RAW, they can sufficiently hide activities.

Answer in to use PAF whenever they are sightes
Border management
Provinces to step up Police
Intel coordination
Citizens to be taught telltale signs of recognising a suicide bombers.

 

[sady]

Maybe i cant explain myself to you and understand that you cant reply to what i m conveying to you.

You both are professionals and both are right. You know how I know this? Certainly not from your knowledge but behaviour .I come from a family of many generations in army. Firstly your knowledge is true but only a facet out of many(quality 1) , secondly you are unwilling to budge from a small view to larger view(quality 2) and thirdly unwilling to budge from stated position (quality 3)

Well, from hearsay I divulge that Mr Shiji is right about gun positions in tribal areas for tribal ops and then for border raids however for cross border installations indeed Guns are planned on heights with good security for only one purpose i.e establishment of safe zone at border.

 

[Basel]

1. TTP and JuA will just move their double and single beds away from artly range.
2. They are not regular army to be suppressed by artly.
3. They will move training centers further deep out of artly range.
4. Their operations will not be disrupted if they move inside afg urban areas. They are looking to send human bombers few times a year and that will be enough to cause fear and helplessness all across Pakistan. Presumably they are working in cohot with NDS, Afg Govt, and RAW, they can sufficiently hide activities.

Answer in to use PAF whenever they are sightes
Border management
Provinces to step up Police
Intel coordination
Citizens to be taught telltale signs of recognising a suicide bombers.

The answer is not PAF, its MALE & HALE UCAVs continuous survellance and taking out target of opertunity

 

[Pakistani E]

It is not being afraid.
It's called strategy.
SF ops are never disclosed whatsoever,
and PA does not need to declare surgical strikes.

PA doesn't need to, there's nothing wrong with doing it on PDF though. That's what I was getting at. As far as Afghan border regions are concerned, I know who's doing what.

 

[imadul]

The answer is not PAF, its MALE & HALE UCAVs continuous survellance and taking out target of opertunity

Which weaponised UAV's we have that may have 25K-50K meters ceiling, 24 hr endurance. So far only one known pak made Buraq strkie? And how much mature is Buraq? USA tested and impreved their predator and reaper ucav's during drone strikes in Pak tribal areas in the last 10 years.

 

[Inception-06]

Lol. These question aren't that difficult.
If you a real gunner than this is the basic thing that you learn, try this.
? x ?= Distance required to correct the fall of shot for line.

You have first to answer my question ^^

 

[SQ8]

The issue has less to do with what the guns can or cannot do and more to do with what they are being asked to achieve; to create a buffer zone along the border for terrorist camps.

This was somewhat based on the approach India tried to take a decade or so ago when faced with cadres of LeT crossing over, they would create indiscriminate fire zones in grids wherever they suspected any movement to raiding parties of militants from taking concealed routes into India.

This approach was generally quarter effective without being able to target exactly.

In Pakistan's case, the need is to hit any know NDS/RAW asset groups forming on abandoned or recruited border villages which they use for C3 with the assets they send inside our territory.

Artillery is devestating when used correctly and its ability to shock an enemy is matched only by aerial bombardment.
Any deaths resulting from it are the added bonus, in this case both nds assets, operatives and some innocent afghan villagers who they employ.

What it has done however is only pushed the enemy back but not stopped them from sending in parties against us

It has disrupted their lines of communication but not eliminAted them.

At best, we've kept new militants from coming in from new routes we may have missed in Zarb e Azb.

It has not stopped or eliminated the million or so homegrown extremists who are terrorists just waiting to be ignited
It has not removed a large pool of Afghan recruits for NDS within their refugee community who are still partiotic.

It has not stopped the suffering of the tribals who from the days of 80's and 90's being stereotyped as drug smugglers or gun toting criminals are now associated with being murderers by most of Pakistan

Zarb e Azb took out the bleeding cysts from the cancer in Pakistan, but its cancer; meanings malignant growth will reform until painful surgery and long term chemotherapeutic treatment is provided
The surgery is military, chemotherapy is reeducation and reform

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

NASR without nuke is very very expensive weapon as compared to A100 rockets which can be launched rapidly and cover the range needed. NASR is against our enemy i.e. india and it will always be nuke tipped. However in addition to artillery we should commando action and helicopters to take down the fleeing terrorists. If the strikes are well coordinated then it can literally eliminate all the terrorists.

Turkey has been using artillery effectively against PKK/PYD/POOPS etc. (what's in a name? They're all under the same master) away from the borders and deep into Syria/Irak etc..

 

[sparten]

@Oscar yes but in the Indians case they would then expose themselves to our Counter battery fire, which would come.

Our Artillery attacks across the border are aimed at destroying launch pads from where infiltration and raids take place. If these launch pads destroyed then the enemies ability is to undertake the above actions are curtailed, since they cannot do this from outside artillery range.

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar yes but in the Indians case they would then expose themselves to our Counter battery fire, which would come.

Our Artillery attacks across the border are aimed at destroying launch pads from where infiltration and raids take place. If these launch pads destroyed then the enemies ability is to undertake the above actions are curtailed, since they cannot do this from outside artillery range.

The Indian case is an example

And yes, they still will and can as long as there are terrorist cells still within Pakistan and sympathy to their cause; that exists still rampant within the many semenaries and in various lower middle and middle class households in Pakistan

 

[war&peace]

Turkey has been using artillery effectively against PKK/PYD/POOPS etc. (what's in a name? They're all under the same master) away from the borders and deep into Syria/Irak etc..

Pakistan shouldd learn from Turkey how the latter created the buffer zone along its border from PKK since the same masters that support PKK are supporting TTP in Pakistan.

 

[sparten]

@Oscar Guys on the ground, especially Police Intelligence, who for all their poor reputation, are actually very good, have been saying that the main source of attackers is Afghanistan. Before 2014 the main source was N Waziristan. Even back then many "liberal" people were arguing against the operation saying stuff like "the real support is in the cities".

True, but irrelevant. You can find sympathetic and disaffected people everywhere. If the attackers were inclined to attack Argentina they would be able to find local support. You need to destroy the pipeline of attackers, a gun is useless without ammunition:

 

[jhungary]

Human movement is dynamic, in a ground prespective. It is always an incidental scoop.

Artillery is not at all effective against inhabiting a target, you can achieve a dispersal effect but you can never inhabit your enemy by a purely artillery strike.

To effectly call an artillery strike, 3 things you will need to consider

Target Designation - Which target you want to bomb
Adjustment - To correct the setting for your artillery piece
Damage Assessment - To see the effectiveness of your artillery strike.

Now, in a perfect world, you will want to have a source that can continue feeding you target infomation. Be that an RSTA drone or a SF Sniper team. They can be used to call target, and wait on scene until the splash.

Then you would want to have Forward Observer over your target area so they can provide your gun detail and how to hit your target.

And after the bombardment is over, you will want to get to that place and investigate the effectiveness of the bombardment.

But to do all these, unless you are talking about bombing one or two target along the whole line, you would need a lot of resource just to know you are up in the queue. If you have 40 targets, you will have to have 40 teams on the ground, and so on. Which is as good as having invade afghanistan yourselves.

If you don't provide all these, then you may as well just fire your gun anywhere, hope and pray that they hit something, which is worse than not sending any round over. Artillery strike without RSTA is nothing more than a show, you may as well sending fireworks over the border.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Pakistan shouldd learn from Turkey how the latter created the buffer zone along its border from PKK since the same masters that support PKK are supporting TTP in Pakistan.

Yes, the best defense lies in merciless offense. You can't let the fight reach your borders. Fronts need to be drawn away from the borders. Turkey's recent success, especially with the fall of El-Bab, have proved this theory right. Now, the bigger terror nests, built with billions of dollars which has put the terror financiers own countries on the verge of total disarray (Ilahi Adalet), are the next targets. Fights will be even more up-hill but offer the peace and security to hinterlands so that they can prosper exponentially. Off course it requires extreme sacrifice in men and materials, but this is the price to pay if you want your folks to have a narrative and develop your country. Your enemies will leave no stone unturned to subdue you. Each of your gains is a loss for them - that's how they are groomed by Iblis. Bottom line: endless Sabr and Shukr, and relentless Mujaddele with Tevvakul on Allah-u Azimushshan...

 

[Mrc]

I agree .. pakistan must keep.up the offensive ... low.level but sustained... it keeps morale up.. it keeps casualities down... this is a 5th gen war... not for territory but for perception..
We.need to be perceived ti be strong and offensive

I ve been advocating decapitating strikes in afghanistan for 6 months... i m still strong believer in that