Pakistan would buy Chinese HD-1 supersonic missile

[MimophantSlayer]

WoW what a neutral and un-doctored by a indian major gen, thanks for correction @CyclopS

Alright.
Since it is customary for pakistani posters in pdf to do claim any info coming out of India as propaganda unless of course it is confirming biases in the way of negative news about India from India; how about the pakistan army website then?
https://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/AWPReview/TextContentf0d8.html

From the above link it is clear that there was indeed a war in Kashmir in 1971.

We are politically weak and internationally alone in 71 and you're backed by Soviet Union, thats why we were defeated @CyclopS

That's not true.
Both India and pakistan had the same level of influence with their respective allies.
If anything, the rapidly growing superpower China and the premier superpower of the time, USA(who supported you economically, politically and provided you with the materials for your defensive needs) were in the Pakistani court, you had the best of both the worlds.
Apart from these two nations, I think both Jordan and Iran too were supporting you.

Hell, US sent a full blown carrier battle group Task Force 74, led by the nuclear powered USS Enterprise, with several destroyers, an SSN, amphibious assault ships filled to the brim with marines, a refueler and an ammunition ship.
That doesn't look like pakistan was alone at all.
Russians also claim that the Brits sent the HMS Eagle in the Bay of Bengal whom the former chased out.
The Soviet naval assets also hindered the TF-74 and stopped the Americans from intervening.

 

[Ultima Thule]

This HD1 is solid fuel missile whereas Brahmos is liquid fuel. Solid fuel is always heavier than liquid fuel one. You can see it in any type of missile. So, its fliggt dynamics will be different from Brahmos.

Also, ISI is not great genius that can get the important information of Brahmos. Don't think too much about ISI getting all secret information on Indian items

you don't know an inch difference between Solid fuel and liquid fuel, liquid fuel always heavier and more complex than solid one, and prone to be fueled right before launch, you can't store liquid fuel into liquid fuel missile for indefinite time @Vijyes Yechury enjoy:

That's not true.
Both India and pakistan had the same level of influence with their respective allies.
If anything, the rapidly growing superpower China and the premier superpower of the time, USA(who supported you economically, politically and provided you with the materials for your defensive needs) were in the Pakistani court, you had the best of both the worlds.
Apart from these two nations, I think both Jordan and Iran too were supporting you.

Hell, US sent a full blown carrier battle group Task Force 74, led by the nuclear powered USS Enterprise, with several destroyers, an SSN, amphibious assault ships filled to the brim with marines, a refueler and an ammunition ship.
That doesn't look like pakistan was alone at all.
Russians also claim that the Brits sent the HMS Eagle in the Bay of Bengal whom the former chased out.
The Soviet naval assets also hindered the TF-74 and stopped the Americans from intervening.

we have internal political problem with Bangladesh and read the history when US carrier battle group arrived at karachi (After war) and at the of war China was not consider Super power they give only J-6 (clone MIG-19) can you prove that Britain, Jordan and Iran had have help us in 71 if not don't spread false rumors here @CyclopS

Alright.
Since it is customary for pakistani posters in pdf to do claim any info coming out of India as propaganda unless of course it is confirming biases in the way of negative news about India from India; how about the pakistan army website then?
https://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/AWPReview/TextContentf0d8.html

From the above link it is clear that there was indeed a war in Kashmir in 1971.

yes but my point is few skirmish did't consider a major war, your plane attacking from those bases so we destroyed them , major war was consider on IB and on East pakistan front, that's all i have to say @CyclopS

 

[MimophantSlayer]

we have internal political problem with Bangladesh and read the history when US carrier battle group arrived at karachi (After war) and at the of war China was not consider Super power they give only J-6 (clone MIG-19) can you prove that Britain, Jordan and Iran had have help us in 71 if not don't spread false rumors here @CyclopS

Enough with the victimhood Olympics.
We too had many problems within India and still do, far more than pakistan ever did.
We overcame them and still won, so there's no use spewing excuses especially not when you lot apparently consider pakistanis as being culturally and genetically superior to us kafirs.

The Chinese were an emerging super power, who were belligerent towards India, sold you weapons and were definitely stronger than us at that point, and that's all that matters.

Did we have a regional ally with whom we and our enemy shared borders with, that was as strong as China?
No, that privilege belonged only to pakistan.

As for the American Task Force 74, they did not arrive after the war, please stop lying.
They came up to the Bay of Bengal on the orders of Nixon, a full 5 days before the war ended.

As for the Brits, Jordan and Iran being in the Pakistani camp.

Page 78 onwards.
https://books.google.co.in/books?id=jiDYjw4gCzEC&pg=PA79&q=shah+of+iran+and+india+1971&redir_esc=y&hl=en#v=snippet&q=shah of iran and india 1971&f=false

http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/issue47/articles/a07.htm

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=FJLSDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA61&q=Nixon+encourage+iran++1971+war+pakistan&redir_esc=y&hl=en#v=snippet&q=Nixon encourage iran 1971 war pakistan&f=false

Russians are the ones claiming that they thwarted the Brits and the HMS Eagle.

https://web.archive.org/web/2016011...ried-to-intervene-in-1971-india-pakistan-war/

yes but my point is few skirmish did't consider a major war, your plane attacking from those bases so we destroyed them , major war was consider on IB and on East pakistan front, that's all i have to say @CyclopS

Ok that's just BS right there.
Few skirmishes? That's just a subjective opinion.

Conflicts lasting far shorter with far fewer battles and soldiers are considered wars, so there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that the intense battles fought in Kashmir, which were eventually dominated by India, constitute a war.

Besides it would have done you good if you had actually read the pak army link I posted.
PA considered the West pak conflicts as a war so I don't know who you are to say otherwise.

 

[War Thunder]

Only an old user manual was leaked.

Yeah your govt take you for stupid and you people fall for it every time.
The only govt in the world who can do a bollywood version of a fake surgical strike and still have most of their population fall for it and jump up and down...

 

[Ultima Thule]

Enough with the victimhood Olympics.
We too had many problems within India and still do, far more than pakistan ever did.

What is your problems in 71 please tell us before the war @CyclopS

The Chinese were an emerging super power, who were belligerent towards India, sold you weapons and were definitely stronger than us at that point, and that's all that matters.

your term of emerging superpower for China is definitely moot, in 71 China was nowhere near the superpower status, there were only 2 superpower in 71 Soviet Union/USA @CyclopS

As for the American Task Force 74, they did not arrive after the war, please stop lying.
They came up to the Bay of Bengal on the orders of Nixon, a full 5 days before the war ended.

As for the Brits, Jordan and Iran being in the Pakistani camp.

Page 78 onwards.
https://books.google.co.in/books?id=jiDYjw4gCzEC&pg=PA79&q=shah+of+iran+and+india+1971&redir_esc=y&hl=en#v=snippet&q=shah of iran and india 1971&f=false

http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/issue47/articles/a07.htm

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=FJLSDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA61&q=Nixon+encourage+iran++1971+war+pakistan&redir_esc=y&hl=en#v=snippet&q=Nixon encourage iran 1971 war pakistan&f=false

Posting some random books articles doesn't means that they had/hadn't provide arms and ammunition to pakistan, there were no concrete evidence on that, only US govt knows that @CyclopS may be Iran and Jordan were diplomatically on the side of Pakistan may help us on financial term and giving us small arms @CyclopS

You're just spreading lies/flse rumors here @CyclopS

Ok that's just BS right there.
Few skirmishes? That's just a subjective opinion.

Conflicts lasting far shorter with far fewer battles and soldiers are considered wars, so there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that the intense battles fought in Kashmir, which were eventually dominated by India, constitute a war.

Besides it would have done you good if you had actually read the pak army link I posted.
PA considered the West pak conflicts as a war so I don't know who you are to say otherwise.

i am not saying that were not intense battles, but my main point is we had no intention to capture IOK just like we did tried in 65 OPERATION GIBERALTER @CyclopS

 

[hussain0216]

Also, ISI is not great genius that can get the important information of Brahmos. Don't think too much about ISI getting all secret information on Indian items

That's the whole purpose of ISI

Top 10 Most Powerful Intelligence Agencies In The World 2018
Rank Intelligence Agency Names Country
1 ISI-Inter-Service Intelligence Pakistan
2 CIA-Central Intelligence Agency USA
3 MI6-Military Intelligence Section 6 United Kingdom
4 FSB-Federal Security Bureau of Russian Federation Russia
5 BND-Bundesnachrichtendienst Germany
6 .DGSE-Direction Generale De La Securite Exterieure France
7 RAW-Research and Analysis Wing India
8 MSS-Ministry of State Security China
9 ASIS-Australian Secret Intelligence Service Australia
10 Mossad-The Institute for Intelligence and Special Operation

http://www.bbcnewshub.com/top-10-most-powerful-intelligence-agencies-in-the-world-2018/



www.doyouknow.com.pk/most-powerful-intelligence-agencies-in-the-world-2018/

List of 10 most powerful intelligence agencies in the world 2018 is as follows.
1. ISI, Inter-Services intelligence, (Pakistan)

Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) is one of the most powerful Intelligence Agencies in the world. It was established in 1948. Its main responsibility is to maintain peace and establish internal security measures of the country. ISI performs its functions with the collaboration of Intelligence Department and mainly assisted by Military Intelligence. Today, it’s most important function is to carry out War against Terrorism, and keep their country secured by any threat. They have also manipulated other top Intelligence agencies in the world for their own national interest. The vigilance and professionalism of ISI make it one of the top 10 most powerful intelligence agencies of the world.

 

[Super Falcon]

Russia already using it against US ballustic missile shield

 

[MimophantSlayer]

What is your problems in 71 please tell us before the war @CyclopS

The NNC, Naxalites, Khalistan, these were way powerful then, than they are now and we had to deal with them and engage in multiple wars with 2 of our belligerent neighbours.

your term of emerging superpower for China is definitely moot, in 71 China was nowhere near the superpower status, there were only 2 superpower in 71 Soviet Union/USA @CyclopS

Again, you are falsely equating superpowers with emerging superpowers.

The point is, China was a powerful nation which was fiercely anti India, pro pakistan, could provide pakistan with arms, and were competent enough to defeat us not even a decade before 71 and they were on your side, WE DID NOT HAVE A CHINA ON OUR SIDE.

Posting some random books articles doesn't means that they had/hadn't provide arms and ammunition to pakistan, there were no concrete evidence on that, only US govt knows that @CyclopS may be Iran and Jordan were diplomatically on the side of Pakistan may help us on financial term and giving us small arms @CyclopS

I can't convince someone who is bent on closing his eyes and stuffing his ears at any and all proof.

These books aren't some nursery rhyme books, you can't just question willy nilly if whether Humpty really fell off the walls or no.
These are written by consummate professionals and masters of their respective fields.
If you really want to discredit the said authors then please provide proof for the same or else your ripostes are just disingenuous.

However, since you are adamant on rejecting every legitimate link, how about a declassified US government source?
This declassified conversation between Kissinger and Nixon literally has them plotting to help Pakistan by providing military equipment and munitions through Iran and they are also freely discussing about Jordan sending 6-10 fighters to pakistan.

https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1969-76v11/d222

You're just spreading lies/flse rumors here @CyclopS

I am sorry, but I am not lying, you are just in denial.

i am not saying that were not intense battles, but my main point is we had no intention to capture IOK just like we did tried in 65 OPERATION GIBERALTER @CyclopS

This is very exhausting.
You keep changing the goal posts.
First you didn't want to acknowledge that there was a war in Kashmir, then you said they were only small skirmishes, now you are saying there was nothing like Op. Gibraltar.

But even then you are wrong.
Pakistan initiated the hostilities on our Western front with Op. Chengiz Khan in 71, just like you lot did with Op. Gibraltar in 65.

Again, it doesn't matter what you say, as the official PA view is that there was indeed a war that West pakistan engaged in.

 

[HariPrasad]

Read the history kid operation Gibraltar was in 65 not in 71 kid @HariPrasad here it is @HariPrasad enjoy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gibraltar @HariPrasad

war in 71 was on Bangladesh issue, there was no war in 71 in Kashmir @HariPrasad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971 @HariPrasad

You are a wonderful thinker. I have nere referred or mentioned what you are posting here. Do not expose your poor comprehension skill.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Again, you are falsely equating superpowers with emerging superpowers.

The point is, China was a powerful nation which was fiercely anti India, pro pakistan, could provide pakistan with arms, and were competent enough to defeat us not even a decade before 71 and they were on your side, WE DID NOT HAVE A CHINA ON OUR SIDE.

in that time you can't say as China emerging superpower, China is not even close to it,heavily relying on Soviet tech, you can say China was far more stronger than India and was anti India at best, @CyclopS

I can't convince someone who is bent on closing his eyes and stuffing his ears at any and all proof.

These books aren't some nursery rhyme books, you can't just question willy nilly if whether Humpty really fell off the walls or no.
These are written by consummate professionals and masters of their respective fields.
If you really want to discredit the said authors then please provide proof for the same or else your ripostes are just disingenuous.

However, since you are adamant on rejecting every legitimate link, how about a declassified US government source?
This declassified conversation between Kissinger and Nixon literally has them plotting to help Pakistan by providing military equipment and munitions through Iran and they are also freely discussing about Jordan sending 6-10 fighters to pakistan.

https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1969-76v11/d222

Mostly small arm as you say 10 jet worth nothing and in your previous post those articles has lots if and but in it @CyclopS

This is very exhausting.
You keep changing the goal posts.
First you didn't want to acknowledge that there was a war in Kashmir, then you said they were only small skirmishes, now you are saying there was nothing like Op. Gibraltar.

But even then you are wrong.
Pakistan initiated the hostilities on our Western front with Op. Chengiz Khan in 71, just like you lot did with Op. Gibraltar in 65.

Again, it doesn't matter what you say, as the official PA view is that there was indeed a war that West pakistan engaged in.

are you have comprehension problem @CyclopS ,Operation chengiz khan was nothing to with the intention to capture IOK,its air strikes to neutralize the enemy conducted By PAF, whereas operation Giberaltar conducted by PA @CyclopS

You are a wonderful thinker. I have nere referred or mentioned what you are posting here. Do not expose your poor comprehension skill.

Butturt use the burnol on your butts @HariPrasad , its simple in 71 we were not tried to capture IOK as you say in your earlier post @HariPrasad

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

That's the whole purpose of ISI

Top 10 Most Powerful Intelligence Agencies In The World 2018
Rank Intelligence Agency Names Country
1 ISI-Inter-Service Intelligence Pakistan
2 CIA-Central Intelligence Agency USA
3 MI6-Military Intelligence Section 6 United Kingdom
4 FSB-Federal Security Bureau of Russian Federation Russia
5 BND-Bundesnachrichtendienst Germany
6 .DGSE-Direction Generale De La Securite Exterieure France
7 RAW-Research and Analysis Wing India
8 MSS-Ministry of State Security China
9 ASIS-Australian Secret Intelligence Service Australia
10 Mossad-The Institute for Intelligence and Special Operation

http://www.bbcnewshub.com/top-10-most-powerful-intelligence-agencies-in-the-world-2018/



www.doyouknow.com.pk/most-powerful-intelligence-agencies-in-the-world-2018/

List of 10 most powerful intelligence agencies in the world 2018 is as follows.
1. ISI, Inter-Services intelligence, (Pakistan)

Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) is one of the most powerful Intelligence Agencies in the world. It was established in 1948. Its main responsibility is to maintain peace and establish internal security measures of the country. ISI performs its functions with the collaboration of Intelligence Department and mainly assisted by Military Intelligence. Today, it’s most important function is to carry out War against Terrorism, and keep their country secured by any threat. They have also manipulated other top Intelligence agencies in the world for their own national interest. The vigilance and professionalism of ISI make it one of the top 10 most powerful intelligence agencies of the world.

Hahahaha! You are ranking RAW at 7th and Chinese intelligence at 8th while useless ones like Germany intelligence is in 5th? Do you know that Germany is under USA occupation? German constitution was written under USA guidance. After 1989 USSR left but USA still remains and Germany is run internally by the USA based deep assets.

You keep your shitty list with yourself. This is as credible as those loonies giving the number of nuclear warheads in different countries.

 

[HariPrasad]

Butturt use the burnol on your butts @HariPrasad , its simple in 71 we were not tried to capture IOK as you say in your earlier post @HariPrasad

You do not even have your anti burn cream. Do you feel ashamed?

 

[hussain0216]

Hahahaha! You are ranking RAW at 7th and Chinese intelligence at 8th while useless ones like Germany intelligence is in 5th? Do you know that Germany is under USA occupation? German constitution was written under USA guidance. After 1989 USSR left but USA still remains and Germany is run internally by the USA based deep assets.

You keep your shitty list with yourself. This is as credible as those loonies giving the number of nuclear warheads in different countries.

Im not ranking anything

Belive it or not blackie I dont control the internet or websites like the BBC

 

[MimophantSlayer]

in that time you can't say as China emerging superpower, China is not even close to it,heavily relying on Soviet tech, you can say China was far more stronger than India and was anti India at best, @CyclopS

Agree to disagree.

The point however remains that pakistan had China's support and was not as you said alone during the 1971 war.

Mostly small arm as you say 10 jet worth nothing and in your previous post those articles has lots if and but in it @CyclopS

Small arms and 10 jets during those days was a big deal. You are purposefully diminishing the help pakistan got from your neighbours.

Eitherway, the point remains that pak was not "internationally alone" like you claimed.

Asfor the articles.
You are cherry picking at this point.
The Nixon-Kissinnger dialogue and the non quoted classified text in the link I provided makes it very clear that both Jordan and Iran helped pakistan.

are you have comprehension problem @CyclopS ,Operation chengiz khan was nothing to with the intention to capture IOK,its air strikes to neutralize the enemy conducted By PAF, whereas operation Giberaltar conducted by PA @CyclopS

Again, so what?
Pakistan's intention to capture or not capture Jammu and Kashmir has no bearing on whether the 71 war was a war or no.
Do stop changing the goal posts and replying with red herrings.

The point was during both instances Gibraltar and chengiz khan, the war was initiated by pakistan and that both ops were technically failures.

 

[Ultima Thule]

You do not even have your anti burn cream. Do you feel ashamed?

Pathetic @HariPrasad