Pakistan warns India against targeting its N-installations

[Cookie Monster]

You think IAF wouldn't factor this in .
If such a decision is made IAF would sent at least 300 fighters Su30s + Mirage 2000s + Jaguars at one go and would take out every thing it could leaving you with least chance of counter attack . Some would even carry nukes to respond immediately .

If this could be done ur country would've already done it in order to secure itself bcuz Pak's nukes are a big threat to India.

Let's see the current strength of IAF is
Mig 21(fighter)--------------245
Mig 27(attack)----------------87
Mig 29(fighter)---------------78
Mirage 2000(multirole)------50
Su 30(multirole)------------230
Jaguar(attack)--------------145
________________________
Total------------------------835
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Indian_military_aircraft

Let's now take into account some other key things like operational availability rates and that 18 Jaguars are specialized for maritime strike role.

Since I couldn't find the operational availability of Jaguars, I will base my judgement on the fact that about 120 of them are going to be upgraded by HAL so I assume that the remaining are not worth the upgrade and are probably going to be cannibalized for spare parts along with the acquisition of old Jaguars from France
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...xtra-life-into-old-jaguar-jets-with-new-radar

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/31-ex-french-jaguar-jets-to-be-given-free-of-charge-to-india.509328/

For Mirage 2000 the operational availability is supposedly 80%-90% and for Su 30 it was 55% but Parrikar claimed that it was to be improved to 70% by the end of 2015 so let's assume it's 70% for Su 30 and 90% for Mirage 2000.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/serviceability-rate-of-fighter-aircrafts.412550/

So let's revise the numbers
Mig 21(fighter)--------------245*
Mig 27(attack)----------------87*
Mig 29(fighter)---------------78*
Mirage 2000(multirole)------45
Su 30(multirole)------------161
Jaguar(attack)--------------120
________________________
Total------------------------736

The numbers in red have been adjusted according to the various factors discussed above. The numbers with asterisks have been left as is bcuz I couldn't find concrete info about operational availability for those jets.

Now as for the attack with 300 aircraft as u claimed...

Even though Pakistan is constantly monitoring its eastern border but still Indian Air Force would try to aim for a surprise attack so that it meets the least amount of resistance. In addition IAF would have to hit all the targets almost simultaneously(within minutes) otherwise Pak might move whatever remains and the threat wouldn't be eliminated...hence all the IAF effort would be somewhat wasted.

This means that IAF would utilize all of its Jaguars armed to the teeth for ground attacks bcuz returning to base for another sortie isn't an option. These Jaguars will be escorted by Su30 MKIs and Mirage 2000s in order to engage PAF to protect the Jaguars

So that would be 120 Jaguars(that's all of them)...the rest 180(to make up the 300 number) would be some combination of Mirage 2000 and Su 30

For example
120 Jaguars
45 Mirage 2000
135 Su 30

That will leave India with 26 Su 30 and the rest of those legacy fighters like Mig 21, Mig 29, and Mig 27(which is for ground attack)

Of course I assumed the best operational availability(for the jets on which I could find such data) and rigged the numbers in India's favor as much as possible but even then it doesn't look great. This would leave India wide open for the massive Chinese Air Force to eliminate the threat of Indian nukes. If I were u I wouldn't like the odds of those legacy fighters with a notoriously poor operational availability record to go up against the Chinese Air Force. Keep in mind that these Mig 21 were to be retired in 2000...and now after extension are to be retired in 2019.

 

[Suriya]

@Cookie Monster You have made few assumption here like China was join pakistan . It's unlikely as in that case US may also join india . We are talking one on one scenario here .
Also you know Indian navy has 36 latest Mig29k and IAF mig29 are also being upgraded , Rafale is coming in next 1.5 year . SU30MKI numbers 272 .

 

[araz]

The question is what let to Indian Air chief make such a statement and that too right after US defense chief Mattis visited India? Is US finally prepared to offer India something on our F-16s that made Indian chief give such a bold statement? You may shred it off as conspiracy but there is certainly no harm in analyzing this angle as well. Mastan sb has long advocated about the possibility of this. Araz sb and Oscar sb have routinely refuted it.
@Horus @fatman17 @MastanKhan @Oscar @araz @war&peace @DESERT FIGHTER your opinion gentlemen?

F16 is just one plane in PAF armoury. The Thunder is another. There are 2 aspects to your question in my very humble opinion
Firstly the US giving the Indians the source codes to the various missiles and the 16s themselves. This is some fiction novelist's wet dream. The US has not supported anyone other than Israel to that extent. For instance in the ever simmering tussle between Turkey and Greece both sides have used their F16s against each other. The US will never favour anyone else to that extent. Doing so will mean no one will buy arms from them and their arms industry is amongst one of their biggest revenue providers. So this will not happen. No one in US gives a dirty toilet paper sheet for the life of some unknown nation which is only there for two reasons.a-.- A cash cow, or B-.- someone who serves their interests. They have ditched Iran, Phillipines, and now Saudi aarabia to some extent and when their interests are served they will ditch India and Pakistan as well. In many ways their thinking is like the French in that if there is money or interest involved they are by your side otherwise they will move to the next nation which dances to their tune. There is nothing ri or wrong about it , it is just the way they conduct business and if I may say so very successfully.
Secondly, if a Nuclear armed nation is deprived of its armaments it will just lower its nuclear threshold. In the 90s India had 70 billion US money invested into it. That might have changed but there maybe scope for small scale attack and skirmishes but no major war is on the cards ------- YET,!! As to sanctions against Pam, they will be more to make Pakistan bend down rather than to appease India.
So the short answer is that US will probqbly supply both parties if not openly then via the black market at thrice the rates. This is far better business than to bite the arm that feeds youand in case of feeding they will jot consider whether the feeding arm is small or big.
A

 

[Cookie Monster]

@Cookie Monster You have made few assumption here like China was join pakistan . It's unlikely as in that case US may also join india . We are talking one on one scenario here .
Also you know Indian navy has 36 latest Mig29k and IAF mig29 are also being upgraded , Rafale is coming in next 1.5 year . SU30MKI numbers 272 .

There are no assumptions such as China joining Pakistan or US joining India. I'm basing that scenario on how strategy works.

The reason why we r talking about this topic is bcuz India considers Pak's nukes a threat to its existence(and they are a threat to its existence)
...the same applies in case of China...China considers Indian nukes a threat to its existence. So if a golden opportunity was to present itself where a majority of India's most capable fighters are away leaving India exposed, why wouldn't China take advantage of that?

Naval aircraft have a different role...don't count on them for defending Indian airspace like ur Air Force does. Also I provided sources for the numbers I used. U can't just claim that India has 272 Su 30 without backing it up with a source and expect me to believe u.

As for the Rafale...we r talking about the current scenario and not the future. In the future Pak would also be upgrading its capabilities.

 

[Frank Martin]

That comment from air chief was unnecessary. We are not talking about some surgical strikes on terrorist hideouts. Attacking a country's nuclear installations will bring imminent war and could possibly results in an all out nuclear one. Any retaliation by one, just by one n-tipped missile would leave scars on atleast 10 generations that are yet to come! Even if we have the full backing of US of A and Israel, none of the civilian leadership would dare to take such a drastic step on a nuclear armed rival. Remember, this is not 60s, 80s or even 1998. If a military powerhouse like US is reluctant to do such actions against Iran or DPRK, then imagine about India which lags behind them by many folds in terms of military power. Just my thoughts.

 

[idune]

one other way to extract benefit from indian war mongering. Hire a north Korean "communication mouthpiece" consultant and and make sure indian economic centers are targets, that will stall and drive out existing and potential investment.

 

[El Sidd]

@Cookie Monster You have made few assumption here like China was join pakistan . It's unlikely as in that case US may also join india . We are talking one on one scenario here .
Also you know Indian navy has 36 latest Mig29k and IAF mig29 are also being upgraded , Rafale is coming in next 1.5 year . SU30MKI numbers 272 .

Bhayya gangs of wasseypur ki shooting k liye istemal krlena.

A country whose army is bogged down by handful freedom fighters in Kashmir should ought to be careful when trying to gather attention.

Don't let the world see the white elephant the USSR of the sub continent.

 

[Arsalan 345]

The question is what let to Indian Air chief make such a statement and that too right after US defense chief Mattis visited India? Is US finally prepared to offer India something on our F-16s that made Indian chief give such a bold statement? You may shred it off as conspiracy but there is certainly no harm in analyzing this angle as well. Mastan sb has long advocated about the possibility of this. Araz sb and Oscar sb have routinely refuted it.
@Horus @fatman17 @MastanKhan @Oscar @araz @war&peace @DESERT FIGHTER your opinion gentlemen?

there is a clear green signal from washington to delhi to attack pakistan but india lacks courage.they know it will spiral out of control.america wants to destabilize pakistan for two reasons.one is destruction of CPEC and other is getting more closer to chinese borders.talibans are just an excuse.

 

[Zen0]

If Pakistan can break treaties and alter its doctrine to be aggressive to India , why should India still have a no first use policy.

 

[IceCold]

F16 is just one plane in PAF armoury. The Thunder is another. There are 2 aspects to your question in my very humble opinion
Firstly the US giving the Indians the source codes to the various missiles and the 16s themselves. This is some fiction novelist's wet dream. The US has not supported anyone other than Israel to that extent. For instance in the ever simmering tussle between Turkey and Greece both sides have used their F16s against each other. The US will never favour anyone else to that extent. Doing so will mean no one will buy arms from them and their arms industry is amongst one of their biggest revenue providers. So this will not happen. No one in US gives a dirty toilet paper sheet for the life of some unknown nation which is only there for two reasons.a-.- A cash cow, or B-.- someone who serves their interests. They have ditched Iran, Phillipines, and now Saudi aarabia to some extent and when their interests are served they will ditch India and Pakistan as well. In many ways their thinking is like the French in that if there is money or interest involved they are by your side otherwise they will move to the next nation which dances to their tune. There is nothing ri or wrong about it , it is just the way they conduct business and if I may say so very successfully.
Secondly, if a Nuclear armed nation is deprived of its armaments it will just lower its nuclear threshold. In the 90s India had 70 billion US money invested into it. That might have changed but there maybe scope for small scale attack and skirmishes but no major war is on the cards ------- YET,!! As to sanctions against Pam, they will be more to make Pakistan bend down rather than to appease India.
So the short answer is that US will probqbly supply both parties if not openly then via the black market at thrice the rates. This is far better business than to bite the arm that feeds youand in case of feeding they will jot consider whether the feeding arm is small or big.
A

Thank you Araz sb for your detailed reply. Always a pleasure reading your reviews. What begs the question what led to Indian Air Chief made such a blunt comment? Was the timing just a coincidence?

 

[war&peace]

If that happens, we shall turn each and every indian city into a charred rubble.

With love
W&P

 

[IceCold]

If that happens, we shall turn each and every indian city into a charred rubble.

With love
W&P

With the kind of morons and traitors in position of power, i sometimes doubt if we are going to do anything at all. I mean yeah we will hit them back but will it be enough?

 

[SSGcommandoPAK]

The good thing is that HQ-16s have been deployed across the country !!!

 

[war&peace]

With the kind of morons and traitors in position of power, i sometimes doubt if we are going to do anything at all. I mean yeah we will hit them back but will it be enough?

It has to come from the top military command as they are entrusted with that responsibility. Of course these political corrupt traitors won't do anything so anyone pinning any hope in their action is simply idiot himself.

So can our top military leadership do that...that's a big question mark? I hope they do..Am I sure? Yes I'm.

The thing is that if Pakistan get attacked, we don't need to think about anything nada...except for a total annihilation of 1 billion useless vile creatures. I don't care if a few million indian Muslims get killed in that exchange...not for a nano second. I just want to see nice healthy mushrooms over every enemy city.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Ah my Pak Friends,

It was just an other verbal Surgical Strike by Mr. BS.

Those who live by fantasies need grand claims...otherwise, reality comes in kicks them in the teeth and then in chest.

So please let go..don't respond to any bs or Mr. BS.

Finish the bloody CPEC phase one... this is what hurts them the most.

Remember those verbal Surgical Strikes in Free Kashmir by indians or those great words of 2.5 front war...and please, remember the famous stand-off with the Dragon....

Just big words...so let us show compassion to those who lie or live in wonderland of make believe...

No nuclear war, please!!!

Regards,

Mangus