Pakistan wants the US to give it a "fixed annual sum" for keeping troops in Nth. Waziristan

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Nice story to tell.

You and I both know and acknowledge that the west won't give a dead fly to others "without" serving their own interests. Question to ask is if our and their interests are aligned in this particular issue? You don't have to go further than American arming and funding Syrians and Pakistanis involved in Afghanistan with their proxies. to answer that question.

Amrika will achieve their interests but Pakistan will suffer along the way as it has. $$$ motherlands/civilians will get richer than they woke up with. The story will never finish.




Yes and send you and your family to see those B52 bombers. How wise would that be? Maybe some fire works in store for them too on the ground?

Stupid Pak Fauj. They took the money instead.

Be wise and tactic.

Only cowards and beghairat think like that. Yes against invading American kafirs, the deaths of my family and other pashtuns would have been simple and clean shahadat. Whats best death than shahadat? Whats best survivor than ghazi?

 

[Jungibaaz]

Okay. I understand. Amrika was a wounded bear. Which by the way it was not. It never was. It never will be. Unless other country takes over her technologically and consequently militarily.

Lets assume it was - Than why did our leaders make $$$? Have you ever seen a chart of Pakistani GDP correlating with Amrikan aid/$$$? Do you know how much scammy money did the motherlands under Mushy make?

So is it that Pakistani people had no choice OR Pakistani motherlands and elite has no choice BUT TO MAKE $$$ - Mun-o-Amrika.

Let me make this clear to you, since you can't seem to understand my point. The reason we did what we did on the whole was because it was within out national interest. Other motivations such corruption and money to be gained were of a select few and completely besides the fact, and secondary to the decision. Even a less corrupt would have done the same, more or less.

This is our war now, get that in to your head.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Nice story to tell.

You and I both know and acknowledge that the west won't give a dead fly to others "without" serving their own interests. Question to ask is if our and their interests are aligned in this particular issue? You don't have to go further than American arming and funding Syrians and Pakistanis involved in Afghanistan with their proxies. to answer that question.

Amrika will achieve their interests but Pakistan will suffer along the way as it has. $$$ motherlands/civilians will get richer than they woke up with. The story will never finish.

Of course the US is not going to engage with Pakistan if her own national interests are not being served in some way - the question is whether US and Pakistani national interests can coincide in enough areas for there to be a quid pro quo that results in a "net gain" for both sides.

With respect to your point about the US funding proxies in FATA and Balochistan (or at the very least turning a blind eye to Afghan and Indian support for terrorists/proxies in FATA and Balochistan) - if doing so is in US interests then the US will continue to do so regardless of what Pakistan does, so why not take their assistance in pursuing Pakistani national interests?

This would be the equivalent of doing what Christine Fair accuses Pakistan of doing, "on one hand the US will be fighting terrorism by funding Pakistani counter terrorism operations, while on the other hand the US will be fertilizing the grounds for more terrorism in FATA and Balochistan"!

If the US is going to overtly or covertly support proxies in Pakistan, then we might as well take whatever resources they are willing to offer Pakistan in killing those same proxies, don't you think?

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Only cowards and beghairat think like that. Yes against invading American kafirs, the deaths of my family and other pashtuns would have been simple and clean shahadat. Whats best death than shahadat? Whats best survivor than ghazi?

Brain. Common sense. Ability to think. Think outside the box. This all is better than being a ghazi.

Prophet Muhammad (Peace is upon Him) used his brain. His brain to educate people of not practicing evil rituals like burying girls. He used his brain to educate other people and the importance of getting educated....you can count on many examples.

There is a reason Arab tribes bounced back to invent and innovate when Islam was spreading.

Essentially, ghazi and lulu jan stories are fake.

You are a Ghazi when you liberate people from oppression. Using your mind. Not. Gun.

Let me make this clear to you, since you can't seem to understand my point. The reason we did what we did on the whole was because it was within out national interest. Other motivations such corruption and money to be gained were of a select few and completely besides the fact, and secondary to the decision. Even a less corrupt would have done the same, more or less.

This is our war now, get that in to your head.

Those select few were the decision makers. That is the problem.
So it wasn't when it started?

With respect to your point about the US funding proxies in FATA and Balochistan (or at the very least turning a blind eye to Afghan and Indian support for terrorists/proxies in FATA and Balochistan) - if doing so is in US interests then the US will continue to do so regardless of what Pakistan does, so why not take their assistance in pursuing Pakistani national interests?

That is ironic. Pak/Afghan share border.

There is no way - And no chance - That you can take help from Amrika where your interests are aligned but can't sort out issues next door that are impacting the issues on hand (where the interests are aligned).

Either both parties have to completely disengage to solve the issues or work against each other.

Afghanistan is next door. Amrika has to solve the issues THERE for it to have an effect here. Otherwise, this brotherly relation in this dimension will always be haunting us. And them.

If the US is going to overtly or covertly support proxies in Pakistan, then we might as well take whatever resources they are willing to offer Pakistan in killing those same proxies, don't you think?

That is a fairy tale. Why would Amrika fund those proxies that are going to be slaughtered few days later? That is absurd!

Note: I still believe that America is funding proxies. The benefits are multi dimensional. For example, destroy infrastructure so we cannot compete with them. Our children become jihadis. No infrastructure. Unified culture.

As I mentioned in 2010 - I still believe the world has colluded. The Russian and Chinese saga will eventually die.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That is a fairy tale. Why would Amrika fund those proxies that are going to be slaughtered few days later? That is absurd!

Then what specifically is the issue you have with accepting US assistance for COIN operations in FATA?

 

[DV RULES]

Only fools talk like you, Pakistan had no choice, you don't argue and reason with a wounded bear on rampage, that wounded bear was the US. Talibs should never have occupied KPK/FATA the way they did. Whether or not we were at war these elements, they are cancerous.

We don't need people who think killing random civilians en masse is not only justified, but the will of God.

I frankly don't care who's war it was or is. I don't care what happens/happened in Afghanistan. Talibs have bled us for years. Now I want to see every last one of their dogs butchered.

If you don't care then why you cares about dead?
If you cares over history and present than you have chance to care future.......

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Then what specifically is the issue you have with accepting US assistance for COIN operations in FATA?

Their help in our COIN operation won't yield any positive results.

Their own COIN operations have failed in Iraq/Afghanistan and so on. It is NOT that they do not have the capability to solve the issues...They just don't want to solve the issues the way we want. The way any sane person will ask for.

So I do not think they will be of much help. Besides they themselves funded ISIS....They are playing a game that the $$$ motherlands could not understand. Mainly due to the oncoming $$$.

A 100 years peace in the Muslim world will mean that the west and their printed $$$ chess will face tough competition. Of course, if they are successful with the unified culture saga...it would be different story.

Peace is not something they want us to experience. Not until the unified culture.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Their help in our COIN operation won't yield any positive results.

Their own COIN operations have failed in Iraq/Afghanistan and so on. It is NOT that they do not have the capability to solve the issues...They just don't want to solve the issues the way we want. The way any sane person will ask for.

So I do not think they will be of much help. Besides they themselves funded ISIS....They are playing a game that the $$$ motherlands could not understand. Mainly due to the oncoming $$$.

A 100 years peace in the Muslim world will mean that the west and their printed $$$ chess will face tough competition. Of course, if they are successful with the unified culture saga...it would be different story.

Peace is not something they want us to experience. Not until the unified culture.

The Pakistani proposal is for US resources (funding/equipment) to support COIN operations in FATA - the tactics and short/medium/long term COIN policies that are needed will have to be developed and implemented by Pakistan (specifically the GoP), so I don't see how US COIN failures in Afghanistan are relevant to the discussion.

 

[Kabira]

Only cowards and beghairat think like that. Yes against invading American kafirs, the deaths of my family and other pashtuns would have been simple and clean shahadat. Whats best death than shahadat? Whats best survivor than ghazi?

Who need USA for that? TTP has been sending many to heaven over the last 10 years.

 

[Desert Fox]

Pakistan wants the US to give it a "fixed annual sum" for keeping troops in Nth. Waziristan

Not surprised! After all its a Mercenary Army. Why hire Black Water when you can get Pakistan Army for much cheaper?? That's why the Saudis and America's first choice is always Pakistan Army!!

BTW, this Mercenary Army's Generals really have no shame!!

24 Pakistani soldiers killed in NATO attack on Pakistan check post- Tribune

http://tribune.com.pk/story/297979/nato-jets-attack-checkpost-on-pak-afghan-border/

 

[karan.1970]

I personally don't see much of an issue with the GoP asking the US to offset some of the costs of deployments in FATA, as long as conditions against Pakistani national security interests are not accepted as a rider to that funding.

Think about the issue pragmatically - Pakistan HAS to deploy forces in FATA for an extended period of time to fight terrorism, so if other countries are willing to fund (in whole or in part) an effort in support of Pakistani national security, then why object?

I agree. Western countries regularly subsidize 3rd world countries in their efforts of eradicating various problems thru multitude of aid packages. India, Pakistan and even China receives aid from developed countries. Terrorism in Pakistan is no different.

 

[Desert Fox]

Brain. Common sense. Ability to think. Think outside the box. This all is better than being a ghazi.

Prophet Muhammad (Peace is upon Him) used his brain. His brain to educate people of not practicing evil rituals like burying girls. He used his brain to educate other people and the importance of getting educated....you can count on many examples.

Did Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) also make deals for $$$ with the people who attacked/martyred his Companions?? Pakistan Army sure does!!

If Pakistan Army had brains, the best thing to do right now would be to not beg America for $$$.

24 Pakistani soldiers killed in NATO attack on Pakistan check post- Tribune

 

[Cherokee]

I truly pray that happens .

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Not surprised! After all its a Mercenary Army. Why hire Black Water when you can get Pakistan Army for much cheaper?? That's why the Saudis and America's first choice is always Pakistan Army!!

BTW, this Mercenary Army's Generals really have no shame!!

24 Pakistani soldiers killed in NATO attack on Pakistan check post- Tribune

Again, I fail to understand the source of your anger/frustration - a majority of the Pakistani public and Pakistani political parties strongly support Pakistani military/security operations against insurgents/terrorists in FATA. Conducting those operations requires money, so if the US is willing to provide resources to conduct those operations, why does that make Pakistan a "mercenary Army"?

A "mercenary Army" would be one that ONLY fights when given money, without any interest in issues like national security. In this particular case the Pakistani Army is already fighting a war against terrorism and needs to expand that war to address the issue comprehensively. The Pakistani Army has the backing of a majority of the Pakistani public and political parties in executing this war, so why shouldn't Pakistan accept funding to conduct this war from any country willing to provide it?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Did Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) also make deals for $$$ with the people who attacked/martyred his Companions?? Pakistan Army sure does!!

The US did technically apologize for the incident and we have not seen a recurrence since. I would argue that a large part of the problem with US engagement with Pakistan during those years was Leon Panetta (first CIA Director and then Defence Secretary), who took a very confrontational approach to dealing with Pakistan, whether it was the Raymond Davis case, the drone attack on a tribal jirga killing dozens of innocents right after RD was released (and against the strong objections of the US State Department and especially the US Ambassador) or the attack on Pakistani troops at Salala. Leon Panetta's line of thinking was to 'bully Pakistan into submission', which did not work and only ended up destroying what little trust and cooperation existed.

Contrast US engagement with Pakistan during the Leon Panetta years (in the CIA and defence department) with US engagement with Pakistan at any other time and you'll notice a significant difference.

It is time to move beyond past issues and try and build a new relationship based on core interests of both States.

If Pakistan Army had brains, the best thing to do right now would be to not beg America for $$$.

No one is "begging" and the US is not going to provide funds just because a country goes "begging" to her for funds - US engagement with Pakistan will be based on US national interests (which align with Pakistani national interests in many areas), and any agreement on continued US financial support for military operations in FATA can meet BOTH Pakistani and US national interests.