Pakistan v Afghan Air Force - History Question

[mike bennett]

Dear Forum Members,

I am trying to find further details, especially any photographs, of the Afghan Su-22 or the pilot, shot down by a PAF F-16 on 3rd November 1988 near the village of Thal, about 160 miles west of Islamabad I believe that the aircraft was piloted by Captain Abdul Hashim, who ejected and was captured and I believe either he, or his aircraft were shown in Pakistan media.

Thanks you.

Mike Bennett
Project Get Out and Walk
www.ejection-history.org.uk

 

[Patriot]

I think Sir Murad can provide accurate info.He was also on CAP Mission when Afghan jets came into Paksitan.

 

[fatman17]

Dear Forum Members,

I am trying to find further details, especially any photographs, of the Afghan Su-22 or the pilot, shot down by a PAF F-16 on 3rd November 1988 near the village of Thal, about 160 miles west of Islamabad I believe that the aircraft was piloted by Captain Abdul Hashim, who ejected and was captured and I believe either he, or his aircraft were shown in Pakistan media.

Thanks you.

Mike Bennett
Project Get Out and Walk
www.ejection-history.org.uk

I believe the tail-piece of this a/c is mounted as a monument at Kamra (or is it the SU-25 tail-piece)

x_man could also provide the info!

 

[fatman17]

Mike you might want to research F-16.net - they have good information on PAF F-16 war kills!

 

[Muradk]

Dear Forum Members,

I am trying to find further details, especially any photographs, of the Afghan Su-22 or the pilot, shot down by a PAF F-16 on 3rd November 1988 near the village of Thal, about 160 miles west of Islamabad I believe that the aircraft was piloted by Captain Abdul Hashim, who ejected and was captured and I believe either he, or his aircraft were shown in Pakistan media.

Thanks you.

Mike Bennett
Project Get Out and Walk
www.ejection-history.org.uk

3 November 1988, Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood. No. 14 Squadron F-16A serial Number 717 Kamra he shot down SU-22. It was 2 F-16 vs 6 SU-22
(S. No. 84-717)

Flt.Lt Khalid Mahmood shot down another Aircraft this time it was an SU-22 That had violated Pakistani Air Space on the morning of November 3 1988. Shaheen Charlie leader Sqd/Ldr Ehteshman Zakria was leading the mission with khalid Flying as No 2. The formation was being controlled by GCI Sqn/Ldr Saif-ur-Rehman. the routine CAP was established at 10,000ft near Kohat. Again it was a lucky day. Soon the controller Vectored the formation of 6 Bogeys heading towards the boarder. 3 of them turned back close to the boarder, Whereas the remaining 3 violated Pakistani Air Space, Khalid managed to damage the SU then fired another AIM-9L , The missile barely left the fighter when the pilot ejected and after a few seconds the plane exploded and the wreckage fell 10 NM from Thal on the bank of river Kuram. The afghan pilot was later handed over to the afghan Gov.

 

[air marshal]

ANOTHER ONE FOR THE TAIL CHOPPERS 1020 HOURS, 3 NOV-88 - KURRAM VALLEY

During the last stages of Afghan War, Flight Lieutenant Khalid Mahmood of No.14 Squadron, destroys an SU-22 over Thal area near the border. The pilot of the SU-22 ejected and was taken prisoner.

Link: PAF Falcons - Picture Gallery

 

[mike bennett]

Thank to everyone who responded to my question.

I am continuing in my efforts to try to enhance the available details on my web site that is openly available to view at www.ejection-history.org.uk.
As the best people to know about the event as are "those who were there" can I ask forum members help me to identify the fate of each pilot, if possible their name, if you know of a photo of the pilot.

I never got a response when I wrote to Col. Rutskoi, nor the Afghan Air Force, and I have not yet been able to find any Afghan pilot to write to.
Therefore the very best place to give an accurate account, if allowed, are the member of the PAF.
I know that the PAF shot down several Afghan Air Force and Russian Air Force aircraft. I believe the list below is accurate but I do not claim it to be comprehensive.

(1) 17th May 1986 - Afghan Su-22
(2) 30th march 1987 - Afghan An-26
(3) 16th April 1987 - Afghan Su-22
and during the Afghan War several Russian aircraft

(1) 17th May 1988 - Russian Su-22 - Parachinar
(2) 17th May 1988 - Russian Su-22 - Parachinar
(3) 4th August 1988 - Russian Su-25 - Miranshah - Colonel Alexander Rutskoi (Russian) - (I have a photo in my files) ejected safely and was captured
(4) 12th September 1988 - Russian MiG-23
(5) 12th September 1988 - Russian MiG-23
(6) 1st November 1988 - Russian Su-22 - Tull
(7) 3rd November 1988 - Afghan - Su-22 - Captain Abdul Hashim (photo needed) (Afghan) ejected and was captured

As always my sincere thanks to those of you who have written in response to my previous questions. I do not like simply asking questions of the forum and I hope that in some small way I contribute to the factual history of the PAF and other air forces.

with respect

Mike Bennett

 

[fatman17]

Thank to everyone who responded to my question.

I am continuing in my efforts to try to enhance the available details on my web site that is openly available to view at www.ejection-history.org.uk.
As the best people to know about the event as are "those who were there" can I ask forum members help me to identify the fate of each pilot, if possible their name, if you know of a photo of the pilot.

I never got a response when I wrote to Col. Rutskoi, nor the Afghan Air Force, and I have not yet been able to find any Afghan pilot to write to.
Therefore the very best place to give an accurate account, if allowed, are the member of the PAF.
I know that the PAF shot down several Afghan Air Force and Russian Air Force aircraft. I believe the list below is accurate but I do not claim it to be comprehensive.

(1) 17th May 1986 - Afghan Su-22
(2) 30th march 1987 - Afghan An-26
(3) 16th April 1987 - Afghan Su-22
and during the Afghan War several Russian aircraft

(1) 17th May 1988 - Russian Su-22 - Parachinar
(2) 17th May 1988 - Russian Su-22 - Parachinar
(3) 4th August 1988 - Russian Su-25 - Miranshah - Colonel Alexander Rutskoi (Russian) - (I have a photo in my files) ejected safely and was captured
(4) 12th September 1988 - Russian MiG-23
(5) 12th September 1988 - Russian MiG-23
(6) 1st November 1988 - Russian Su-22 - Tull
(7) 3rd November 1988 - Afghan - Su-22 - Captain Abdul Hashim (photo needed) (Afghan) ejected and was captured

As always my sincere thanks to those of you who have written in response to my previous questions. I do not like simply asking questions of the forum and I hope that in some small way I contribute to the factual history of the PAF and other air forces.

with respect

Mike Bennett

Mr. Mike Bennett,

You are doing a great service and your site is quite comprehensive. you are always wellcome here!

 

[chindit]

wow fantastic site - great job mike bennet. you must have lakhs of incidents recorded there. how do you find the time?

 

[fatman17]

wow fantastic site - great job mike bennet. you must have lakhs of incidents recorded there. how do you find the time?

maynot understand that!

 

[chindit]

lol, posted that on purpose . only desis will get it

 

[mike bennett]

Dear Forum Members
I have updated the information I have on the PAF / Afghan Conflicts and these can be found at

Afghanistan

I am sure that some of the claims are not valid and I believe that more is yet to be learned about the real extent of PAF activities against the Afghan/Soviet threat on the border during this period. I understand that the Rules of Engagement and verification of "kills" were strictly adhered to by the PAF and some kills were not accepted due to the aircraft falling in Afghan territory.
I hope that one day the names of the crews of the Afghan aircraft may be known and hopefully photos may be available. This is to enhance the historic nature of the subject.
I now realise that the taking and displaying of POWs in the media, such as the case of Capt. Abdul Hassim (3rd Nov 1988), were not considered as ethical. I hope I didn't offend anyone by asking if any photos existed. I was not trying to suggest that the PAF broke any protocols.
I have also, for a short time, added extracts from the US Washington Post and New York Times to give a feel of what the media were saying at the time of the conflict.

I thought you might like to know that I have also updated the Bangla Desh web page. Please note that I am aware at the time that M. Mati-ur Rahman was killed he was still a member of the PAF. I hope that my notes make that clear. As a matter of historical interest I also know that some in Bangla Desh consider him as there first air casualty. I don't really want to get into a debate about this as I believe that this has already been aired with many opinions on the forum elsewhere.

If you have any Bangla Desh contacts I would appreciate being introduced so that they may add / amend the deatils I have on my pages.

Bangla_Desh

Very best regards

Mike Bennett

 

[chindit]

If you have any Bangla Desh contacts I would appreciate being introduced so that they may add / amend the deatils I have on my pages.

Bangla_Desh

Please visit www.*************** . the forums have some members who may help you.

 

[chindit]

Please visit www.*************** . the forums have some members who may help you.

LOL, I know indian websites are banned, but bangladeshi ones as well?

anyway google for bdmilitary and it should take you to the site

 

[fatman17]

Dear Forum Members
I have updated the information I have on the PAF / Afghan Conflicts and these can be found at

Afghanistan

I am sure that some of the claims are not valid and I believe that more is yet to be learned about the real extent of PAF activities against the Afghan/Soviet threat on the border during this period. I understand that the Rules of Engagement and verification of "kills" were strictly adhered to by the PAF and some kills were not accepted due to the aircraft falling in Afghan territory.
I hope that one day the names of the crews of the Afghan aircraft may be known and hopefully photos may be available. This is to enhance the historic nature of the subject.
I now realise that the taking and displaying of POWs in the media, such as the case of Capt. Abdul Hassim (3rd Nov 1988), were not considered as ethical. I hope I didn't offend anyone by asking if any photos existed. I was not trying to suggest that the PAF broke any protocols.
I have also, for a short time, added extracts from the US Washington Post and New York Times to give a feel of what the media were saying at the time of the conflict.

I thought you might like to know that I have also updated the Bangla Desh web page. Please note that I am aware at the time that M. Mati-ur Rahman was killed he was still a member of the PAF. I hope that my notes make that clear. As a matter of historical interest I also know that some in Bangla Desh consider him as there first air casualty. I don't really want to get into a debate about this as I believe that this has already been aired with many opinions on the forum elsewhere.

If you have any Bangla Desh contacts I would appreciate being introduced so that they may add / amend the deatils I have on my pages.

Bangla_Desh

Very best regards

Mike Bennett

Thanks Mike Bennett for the link - interestingly Lockheed Martin in one of its promotional campaigns for the F-16 has mentioned that besides Israel (at that time ~86-87) Pakistan was the only other air-arm which had used the F-16 in combat and that it had reported upto 16 afghan/russian a/c shot down by the PAF F-16s.