Pakistan-Turkey Going To Have Massive Deals In Defence Production Sector - Press Release

[50cent]

Hope we get g3 replacement with some lightweight 7.62 newest thing Turkish defence has to offer

The countries having strong SAM batteries are the one enemy air forces can't even dare to enter into territories that is protected by them. Strong methods and tactics are being generated to eliminate related SAM batteries' effectiveness. The advanced countries are pouring money for high cost electronic warfare sensors and jammers but No tech can guarantee the %100 survival against those things If they are advanced enough so The critical core technologies of SAM system that was charged to protect own Republic, must be inside of your engineers' hands to apply state of art new technologies to counter the latest posed threats. Otherwise, We don't have much chance to protect own lands with foreign SAM missiles that was developed by foreign hands & brains whose critical components are solely belong to them. They know the deficiency of their own system so continuously upgrading them, While exporting downgraded variants to other countries. When you required new upgrades, They want hundreds of million $.

so It is a must for the states like Turkey, Pakistan to develop own SAM missile family. We SHOULD cooperate on such critical defensive systems to establish a networked missile umbrella whose keys/switches are solely belong to us. Otherwise, If you go to a war with systems that was developed by the states supporting illegal terrorist establishments inside of Turkish army firing own parliament/buildings/people, and expressing their sadness for failed coup attempt of those terrorists, discussing the put Turkey out of NATO, Then It is clear for me that The day when We sign a deal to purchase such critical systems developed by those states, is the day when we signed the agreement of our own collapse. We should benefit from them as much as we can but It is proved again that Trusting those dogs must be the last thing We should do If You are out of their religious camp but Such activities just serve to increase our ambitious more and more. They will learn that They can't control the rise of Turkish industry from outside. They can't pose an open embargo but trying to hit below belt. We will tell the consequences of banning to hold the Turkish flag in some European countries after failed coup attempt, While PKK terrorist supporters are beating Turks, raising illegal terrorist flags. When they understood that PKK in S. East can't divide Turkey into pieces and lost around 7000 militants within 1 year, They activated their plan B inside of Turkish Army to open the way for PKK. We just need time&hard working !

can Pak Turk joint emf weapons knock out enemy electronic radar aircraft avonics power station computers

 

[T-123456]

Islam doesn't accept nation state concept

What instead?

 

[RAMPAGE]

It all started after Jinnah's death,the Muslim extremists took power and it all changed,you became the ''Islamic Republic of Pakistan'',every Muslim extremist group opened madrassas in Pakistan and slowly changed the mindset of the people.
Even the military has been infiltrated.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1259568/the-pakistan-jinnah-would-have-wanted

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Quote from Sir Allama Iqbal the idealogue of the idea of Pakistan.

"Personally, I find the Turkish view is perfectly sound.”

"He went on to defend the separation of religion and state, writing, “The republican form of government is not only thoroughly consistent with the spirit of Islam, but has also become a necessity in view of the new forces that were set free in the world of Islam.”


Iqbal further cited two examples of how in early Islam the caliphate had adapted to political realities. First was the abolition of a condition thatthe caliph had to descend from the Meccan Arab tribe of Quraysh. Iqbal cited the ruling of an 11th-century jurist that, since the Quraysh tribe had experienced a political debacle, ruling the world of Islam no longer required belonging to the Quraysh tribe. The second example involved the historian and philosopher Ibn Khaldun, who in the 15th century declared that since the power of the Quraysh had vanished, the only alternative was to accept the country’s most powerful man as the country’s imam or caliph. Iqbal concluded from all this that there was no difference between the position of Khaldun, who had realized the hard logic of facts, and the attitude of modern Turks, who were also inspired by the realities of their time rather than by medieval laws written under different conditions of life.

 

[T-123456]

http://www.dawn.com/news/1259568/the-pakistan-jinnah-would-have-wanted

You should let @HAKIKAT read this.

Quote from Sir Allama Iqbal the idealogue of the idea of Pakistan.

"Personally, I find the Turkish view is perfectly sound.”

"He went on to defend the separation of religion and state, writing, “The republican form of government is not only thoroughly consistent with the spirit of Islam, but has also become a necessity in view of the new forces that were set free in the world of Islam.”


Iqbal further cited two examples of how in early Islam the caliphate had adapted to political realities. First was the abolition of a condition thatthe caliph had to descend from the Meccan Arab tribe of Quraysh. Iqbal cited the ruling of an 11th-century jurist that, since the Quraysh tribe had experienced a political debacle, ruling the world of Islam no longer required belonging to the Quraysh tribe. The second example involved the historian and philosopher Ibn Khaldun, who in the 15th century declared that since the power of the Quraysh had vanished, the only alternative was to accept the country’s most powerful man as the country’s imam or caliph. Iqbal concluded from all this that there was no difference between the position of Khaldun, who had realized the hard logic of facts, and the attitude of modern Turks, who were also inspired by the realities of their time rather than by medieval laws written under different conditions of life.

And also,Jinnah was called ''Grey Wolf'' for a reason by his daughter when she was young(12),he admired Ataturk(modern Turk).
Both examples tell us enough about what Pakistan should have become.

 

[RAMPAGE]

You should let @HAKIKAT read this.

Unlikely that it would matter. I suspect he's past the age in which Human mind is vulnerable to change. He's looking for something in Pakistan that's just not there. Something that you'll often see conservative Bangladeshi members on PDF and other conservative Muslims from weaker states and sometimes even from countries such as yours, expecting from Pakistan.

 

[Zarvan]

You should move to Mars. They don't have states there.

Islam orders remain same and won't change to please you. Even Iqbal called nation state as biggest false GOD of modern times.

This may surprise you but I have studied it. I have also read Sir Allama Iqbals works foremost being "Reconstruction of Religious thought in Islam".

Link > http://islamicblessings.com/upload/The Reconstruction Of Religious Thought In Islam.pdf

Well there you have it. Thanks for being honest. The nation state as defined by Westphalian principles as on contours of which Pakistan exists is anathema to traditional Islamists. So in a sense Pakistan is not a vessel that can contain the Islamists vewrsion of Ummah concept because it is transnational rather than national. It in fact invalidates the very foundations of Pakistan including even it's military.

In ideal Islam conceptual level the military would be serving the interests of the ummah rather than the nation state of Pakistan. which is why TTP and other radical Islamists call Pak Army "Na-Pak" army. This of course goes back to what I said about inheritant tensions within the very Dna of Pakistan which needs resolving.

I can't help but chuckle at that.

Iqbal is not final authority on Islam. I love Iqbal but he himself has contradicted himself on several occasions. And Atatürk actions sorry but are not only against Islam but even worse.

 

[MadDog]

This is what fascinates me. This is the Gordion Knot that I can't quite disentangle. 98% of Pakistan is also Muslim of various denomonations. However the nation does not come first. Islam does.

This is a recipe for disaster that opens up the state being held hostage to every one penny bit crook that invokes the sanction of Allah and to enforce their Islamic prescription and political goals. This works at differant levels. We end up with myriad of groups with one extreme on the spectrum being the TTP although there are others not quite as virulent but still pose a threat. Also we even have individuals like the policeman who murdered Governor Taseer who similary invoked himself as agent of Allah's sanction. This leades to mass of warring groups in state of conflict with each other and ultimately weakening the state as it becomes hostage to whatever interpretation is cited as Islamic. You can see the murderous rampage inside Pakistan as the result of this.

That has changed considerably, this type of intolerance in society could be observed from 2008-13, but with Zarb-e-Azb and NAP, especially after APS incident society has changed radically. Lemme give u a few examples. Easter, Christmas, Diwali have been declared national holidays, imams have been arrested in numerous cases for spreading hate speech, people (such as some shopkeepers) posting hate speech posters regarding a sect or religion including Anti Ahmedi posters have been arrested, there are openly talks happening on tv channels that why a non muslim cant be PM of the country, etc, so society is changing and it has changed considerably for good !!!

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Pakistan was created to get Muslims the political representation that would've been denied to them in a pseudo-secular Indian union. It was not created to to enforce shariah on the Muslims of Subcontinent.

The state of Pakistan should be reinforced by ideals such as liberty, equality and justice. These ideals cannot be implemented in a non-secular state.

There you go again.You had to bring this up? secular or not? We all here are pretty determined that Pakistan was not formed a secular state nor as a theocracy.Please dont confuse the people any further by quoting articles of that heroinchi Nadeem dumb parcacha.
Some quick rebuttals, a few of jinnahs speeches

We must work our destiny in our own way and present to the world an economic system based on true Islamic concept of equality of manhood and social justice. We will thereby be fulfilling our mission as Muslims and giving to humanity the message of peace which alone can save it and secure the welfare, happiness and prosperity of mankind.

It has nothing to do with religion,it never used to be the important factor.
Nationalism is the key factor here,Turkish nationalism is not comparable to what we know as nationalism.
As know you know 98% of Turks are ''Muslims'',Sunni,Alevi,Shia,Suleymani,Nur etc,so we dont have the need to emphasize religion.
The nation comes first.


If only.


Read the history of Pakistan,you might be surprized.
Btw,try to find out what the white stripe on the Pakistani flag means.

Our flag is the same green flag you see on the Ottoman coat of Arms banner in my DP. Do a bit research what this green flag stands for. Yes we added the white strip to signify the rights of minorities are protected on this land.
Just to let you know the madarsa extremism is not the result of country being an Islamic republic but the poor political discussions made over time.esp. the uncontrollable conflict that poured in from our western border.Things were pretty peaceful before that.

Unlikely that it would matter. I suspect he's past the age in which Human mind is vulnerable to change. He's looking for something in Pakistan that's just not there. Something that you'll often see conservative Bangladeshi members on PDF and other conservative Muslims from weaker states and sometimes even from countries such as yours, expecting from Pakistan.

-


@HAKIKAT I would say just ignore such lads.they are young and inexperienced in communication.

 

[Mohammad ahsen]

It all started after Jinnah's death,the Muslim extremists took power and it all changed,you became the ''Islamic Republic of Pakistan'',every Muslim extremist group opened madrassas in Pakistan and slowly changed the mindset of the people.
Even the military has been infiltrated.

extremism religious unions not right but the country is not secular india was distribute of two nation the main deference is religion this why pakistan was not secular it is islamic state but all thing are not happen in pakistan of sharia

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

There you go again.You had to bring this up? secular or not? We all here are pretty determined that Pakistan was not formed a secular state nor as a theocracy.Please dont confuse the people any further by quoting articles of that heroinchi Nadeem dumb parcacha.
Some quick rebuttals, a few of jinnahs speeches

We must work our destiny in our own way and present to the world an economic system based on true Islamic concept of equality of manhood and social justice. We will thereby be fulfilling our mission as Muslims and giving to humanity the message of peace which alone can save it and secure the welfare, happiness and prosperity of mankind.









Our flag is the same green flag you see on the Ottoman coat of Arms banner in my DP. Do a bit research what this green flag stands for. Yes we added the white strip to signify the rights of minorities are protected on this land.
Just to let you know the madarsa extremism is not the result of country being an Islamic republic but the poor political discussions made over time.esp. the uncontrollable conflict that poured in from our western border.Things were pretty peaceful before that.


-


@HAKIKAT I would say just ignore such lads.they are young and inexperienced in communication.

“İnsanı yaşat ki devlet yaşasın (Let people live so that the State lives)” - Sheyh Edebali's advice to his son-in-law, Osman Gazi, the founder of the Ottoman Empire

"There is no such thing as the State
And no one exists alone;
Hunger allows no choice
To the citizen or the police;
We must love one another or die." - W. H. Auden

In other times, I might have got engaged in vehement polemics, but not after July 15th experience. Everybody has the right to believe in whatever he/she likes. The most important thing is to be able to live in peace with our own selves and the surrounding folks - the rest are all details...

The "new normal" in Turkey - an "islamist" carrying the poster of Ataturk on his shoulder, and a "secularist" embossing the picture of Erdo'an on her T-shirt...

 

[This Man]

will this help pak military or turkey

 

[The Eagle]

@Oscar @waz @Manticore @mods

Can you please merge the undermentioned thread here that contains the details w.r.t to subjected news and is much relevant/in sequence so the information may not be missed.

 

[fatman17]

NewsTurkey

Turkey, Pakistan stress need for further defence cooperation

Turkish Undersecretary for Defence Industries Ismail Demir, says Turkey and Pakistan need to show more solidarity and cooperation as both nations face common challenges, such as terrorism.

Aug 20, 2016



Turkish Undersecretary for Defence Industries Ismail Demir, has underscored the need for enhancing further defence cooperation between Turkey and Pakistan in view of terror threats faced by both nations.

"Turkey and Pakistan need to show more solidarity and cooperation as both of them face [common] challenges such as terrorism," Demir said while speaking at the launching ceremony of a 17,000-ton fleet tanker in south-eastern Pakistani city of Karachi on Friday.

Demir acknowledged that Pakistan was among the first countries to support the Turkish people and its security forces against the defeated military coup attempt in Turkey on July 15.

"We are very grateful for their support."

About the warship fleet tanker, Demir said it was estimated the tanker would be able to serve for three or four decades.

"It is a symbol of close ties between the two countries."

"I am pleased to state that defence industry cooperation between the two countries is a significant example of our win-win approach, in cost saving technology transfer, capability sharing, joint production."

Turkey is said to be evaluating proposals from Pakistan for the purchase of its training aircraft for the Turkish Air Force.

A final decision on Pakistan’s Super Mushshak trainer aircraft is expected soon.

Demir said the Super Mushshak trainer aircraft will be the next training aircraft for the Turkish Air Force.

The 17,000-ton navy warship fleet tanker, which is capable of independently operating at sea for up to three months at a time, has been built and designed in collaboration with the Turkish firm STM and Pakistan's Ministry of Defence Production.

Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif said his country wants to have an “enhanced” defence sector collaboration with Turkey, particularly in the maritime field.

Sharif said the induction of the fleet tanker would play an important role in catering to the logistic needs of Pakistan’s navy.

“This is another testimony to increasing cooperation between Pakistan and Turkey. It will be remembered as a symbol of the time-tested Pakistan-Turkey friendship,” he said.

 

[LeGenD]

Good development. Turkey is one of the few markets where Pakistan have access to NATO-standards goods.

This all could have come to nothing had the rebels succeed in their designs with that Gulen chap sitting in uncle Sam pulling strings on the orders of America. The main reasons Indians were rejoicing this coup.

Here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/16/fethullah-gulen-turkey-coup-erdogan

Pakistan was created on the basis of Islam, Muslims etc. So, Islam should also reinforce Pak state..

Islam cannot reinforce Pak state until the nation itself is enlightened. At present the nation is dealing with the menace of extremism, terrorism, corruption and lack of vision. You don't see much Islam here.

Islam orders remain same and won't change to please you. Even Iqbal called nation state as biggest false GOD of modern times.

The concept of statehood emerged as a response to address the earlier custom of an Empire not recognizing the sanctity of the other and swallowing it without repercussions or declaring it its colony.

Today states have internationally recognized borders. And you should be glad about it.

In modern times, if a state is occupied by the other, the occupied state still remains on the map. And occupation has to end.

Iqbal is not final authority on Islam. I love Iqbal but he himself has contradicted himself on several occasions. And Atatürk actions sorry but are not only against Islam but even worse.

Kemal Ataturk had no choice but to save Turkey (his place of birth) from the wrath of allied forces after WW-I. He could not save the entire Ottoman Empire.