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Pakistan to train Afghan military officials

thanks for the balanced view dear sister, i can see alot of hostility against non pashtoons in this forum, although i am not a person who care about ethnicities, but if people bash us based on the idea that we belong to a non pashtoon group then it will be difficult for me to stay silent. how many people in here have studied our history and see how much non pashtoons have suffered from the injustices of pashtoon rulers(nothing to do with common pashtoon man) in the past especially last 10-12 decades? has anybody even bothered to know why pashtoons ended up in the north while that is not their tradtional territory? land grab and injustice was the official policy against teh non pashtoons. hope people speak with respect and have a balanced view towards these sensitive issues, otherwise there are things pakistan as well that i can speak and even be disrrespectful, but i bet you havesnt seen anything like that from. i have always keep the dignity of my mouth and respected pakistan and its people.


After debating with Afghan Pashtuns i have came to know the reality that those intellectuals (a bunch of them not ordinary Afghan Pashtuns), they even have this hostility towards us (Pakistani Pukhtuns). They think Afghanistan belongs to Afghans and Afghans are only Pashtuns. My question to them had been if so then you mean you are negating Hazaras, Tajiks, Uzbeks and other ethnic groups in Afghanistan. Does it mean you are not considering them part of Afghanistan. If they are part of Afghanistan then my advice is that this word Afghan should be replaced with "Afghanistani" for using for all natives of Afghanistan.


I wonder if there is peace and elections and if Northern part wins the majority will their govt be accepted with open heart and minds (in case there is no outsider involved )???

I dont think so. So the issue is due to their own biases not due to outsiders much
 
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Thank you friend, if this suffering stories is told from one side and ignore the other side, i persoanlly dont take a notice of it. we should be equal even if the tales of suffering is told.

for me life of Tajik , uzbek or any muslim is as sacred as life of Pashtun or Pakistani. I am a sufi and we belive in love and khair

but I strongly belive that in Politics of Action, reaction and counter reaction only Damage world of Islam. when we suffer other rape and rob us.
we must understand for Allah and His Prophetﷺ every muslim is equal only that person is better how has more taqwa
 
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^^^^

IN short ...in today's geopolitical scenario ...the Muslim brotherhood card does not play well....its every community for itself...every country for itself...
 
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^^^^

IN short ...in today's geopolitical scenario ...the Muslim brotherhood card does not play well....its every community for itself...every country for itself...

you will be sad to know
a muslim weather reckon or not that he feels pain about his other muslim brother weather sitting in Afghanistan or Antartica.

ask Ahmed if I am wrong

its takfir and some Takfiri radicals who want to split muslims.
see hajj and try to understand what islamic brother hood is.


we are one ummah and will remain one:pdf:
 
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After debating with Afghan Pashtuns i have came to know the reality that those intellectuals (a bunch of them not ordinary Afghan Pashtuns), they even have this hostility towards us (Pakistani Pukhtuns). They think Afghanistan belongs to Afghans and Afghans are only Pashtuns. My question to them had been if so then you mean you are negating Hazaras, Tajiks, Uzbeks and other ethnic groups in Afghanistan. Does it mean you are not considering them part of Afghanistan. If they are part of Afghanistan then my advice is that this word Afghan should be replaced

Ethnic differences in afghanistna is a sad reality and thanks to our rulers in the last century and to have put the fundemantls of this evil for us, honestly i havent had many ethnic based talks with nationals of afghanistan as much as i have it here.

I wonder if there is peace and elections and if Northern part wins the majority will their govt be accepted with open heart and minds (in case there is no outsider involved )???

It is not only North which is predominately non pasthoon, but central and western part as well. i am originally from laghman province which is located in the east.

with "Afghanistani" for using for all natives of Afghanistan.

that makes sense and as a matter of fact this is a big tension in afghanistan over this. but i personally dont care about it, call afghanistan peanut, but bring peace, stability and progress, that is important and not name. although other people take it seriousely.

I dont think so. So the issue is due to their own biases not due to outsiders much

i agree with you, the country cannot become a country unless there is JUSTICE FOR ALL, not just for some specific people. pashtoons cant live without our concent and we cant live without theirs.
 
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for me life of Tajik , uzbek or any muslim is as sacred as life of Pashtun or Pakistani. I am a sufi and we belive in love and khair

but I strongly belive that in Politics of Action, reaction and counter reaction only Damage world of Islam. when we suffer other rape and rob us.
we must understand for Allah and His Prophetﷺ every muslim is equal only that person is better how has more taqwa

I will respect you more now because of your sufism.

Yes, all lives are important, after all it is human being which is suffering. but if we say one side of the story and blame everything on the other side and ignoring their huge sufferings, then we can expect all the reactions, but i am happy that you care about the others too. thanks.
 
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^^^^

IN short ...in today's geopolitical scenario ...the Muslim brotherhood card does not play well....its every community for itself...every country for itself...

Muslim brotherhood serves well as long as there is no politically motivated stances. we are muslims and care about each other, but if there is politics in the middle then it is different. being one muslim Umah doesnt mean we are radicals or we will take side against the non muslims, you guys are human beings just like us, that is not a problem if we have difrerent faith.
 
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Pakistan to train Afghan military officers



WASHINGTON: Afghan President Hamid Karzai has agreed to send a group of military officers to Pakistan for training, a significant policy shift that signals deepening relations between the long-wary neighbours, a major US newspaper reported.

“The move is a victory for Pakistan, which seeks a major role in Afghanistan,” the Washington Post said in a Kabul datelined report.

According to the report, 300 Afghan soldiers are currently being trained under bilateral agreements in other countries, including Turkey and India.

The report claimed officials in both countries have become increasingly convinced that the US war effort there is faltering.

Afghan officials said Karzai has begun to see Pakistan as a necessary ally in ending the war through negotiation with the Taliban or on the battlefield, the paper reported.

“This is meant to demonstrate confidence in Pakistan, in the hope of encouraging them to begin a serious consultation and conversation with us on the issue of the Taliban,” Rangin Dadfar Spanta, Karzai's national security adviser, said of the training agreement.

The previously unpublicised training would involve only a small group of officers, variously described as between a handful and a few dozen, but it has “enormous symbolic importance” as the first tangible outcome of talks between Karzai and Pakistan's military and intelligence chiefs that began in May.

Some key US officials involved in Afghanistan said they knew nothing of the arrangement.

“We are neither aware of nor have we been asked to facilitate training of the Afghan officer corps with the Pakistani military,” Lt. Gen. William B. Caldwell IV, head of the Nato training command in Afghanistan, said.

Washington has spent $27 billion to train and equip Afghan security forces since 2002, and President Obama's war strategy calls for doubling the strength of both the army and police force there by October 2011 to facilitate the gradual departure of US troops.

This week, Gen. David H. Petraeus, confirmed Wednesday as the new US and Nato war commander, said the United States wants to “forge a partnership or further the partnership that has been developing between Afghanistan and Pakistan.”

In addition to taking military action against alleged Taliban sanctuaries inside its borders, Petraeus said, it is “essential” that Pakistan be involved “in some sort of reconciliation agreement” with the insurgents.

US officials are generally pleased with the rapprochement between Afghanistan and Pakistan, but the rapid progress of the talks has given some an uneasy feeling that events are moving outside US control.

While building Afghanistan's weak army is a key component of US strategy, more than 300 Afghan soldiers are currently being trained under bilateral agreements in other countries, including Turkey and India.

Pakistan has been pushing for months for a training deal, and Spanta said that a “limited” number of officers would be part of the new agreement. Details were still under discussion, but a senior Pakistani government official said the program was expected to begin “soon.”


Shuja Nawaz, director of the South Asia Center at the Atlantic Council in Washington and an advocate of a Pakistani training program, said the plan could expedite joint operations between the two militaries and reduce suspicions about Pakistan within the Afghan army.

“This is a major move,” Nawaz said. “It will have a powerful signalling effect in both countries.”

Analysts and officials see a broader thaw in Afghanistan-Pakistan relations over the past year. Pakistani scholarships have been accepted by a number of Afghan university students, and Pakistan is training Afghan civilian officials, Spanta said.

“We have seen a paradigm shift in the relationship,” said Mohammad Sadiq, Pakistan's ambassador to Afghanistan. “And of course, both sides are benefiting from it.”

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/04-******-military-training-qs-03
 
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27Bln $$$ spent since 2002 on the Afghan Army. :wow:

Where has this amount gone ??

With such huge sum spent, the Afghan Army is not yet fully capable to take on the Taliban single handily.

I wonder where has the 27Bln gone.
 
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you will be sad to know
a muslim weather reckon or not that he feels pain about his other muslim brother weather sitting in Afghanistan or Antartica.

Hmm....so whats great in that....this is a basic human value...I would fee the same when a common Pakistani gets hurt....and I am a Hindu....

ask Ahmed if I am wrong
No need ...I believe you when you say that.

its takfir and some Takfiri radicals who want to split muslims.
see hajj and try to understand what islamic brother hood is.
Oh...puhleez spare me of this religious crap....


we are one ummah and will remain one:pdf:
Ask Arabs...and someone form Indonesia and Malaysia......and someone from Somalia....the answer will be ...its every man for himself in this world.....
 
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Muslim brotherhood serves well as long as there is no politically motivated stances. we are muslims and care about each other, but if there is politics in the middle then it is different. being one muslim Umah doesnt mean we are radicals or we will take side against the non muslims, you guys are human beings just like us, that is not a problem if we have difrerent faith.

Thats the bloody problem...the whole brotherhood thing is based on political benefits that the brotherhood can reap.....and thats why it falters...and does not work...so it does not exist.
 
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I wonder where has the 27Bln gone.

Sounds like the same issue the same issues the CPA had in Iraq but on a much larger scale. Well since the American's do all the tendering and dole out the cheques the onus on accountability is just as much on their heads as the Afghani government.
 
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Ding, Ding, Ding... Excellent! Actually this also shows that Karzai is increasingly becoming bolder by the day when it comes to showing uncle sam the finger.

First he pushed forward the talks with the Taliban despite US advice, then he held the Jirga and now this... Its also interesting that the US have recently decreased the aid to Afghanistan citing "Corruption"...

Very interesting showdown.

the funny thing is, as soon as Karzai started ''changing'' in his tone & behaviour (calling taleban his comrades/brothers), U.S. media and officials began questioning his mental health :lol: :lol:

I think what really nipped things in the bud was when the UN officials, as well as some U.S. diplomatic officials were commenting on the illegitimacy of the recently held elections. This angered Karzai. Also, even though on the outside former Gen. McChrystal and Karzai had a ‘’working’’ relationship – Karzai is said to have been livid that there were military operations going on which he hadn’t approved of (or even knew about). Usually, the military/NATO brass meet with him to discuss ongoing and future military operations. As of late, they have not been doing so.

All this is relevant because it shows a shift in paradigm. Obama has made it clear that he wants to avoid further surge in troops, and hopes for withdrawal after negotiating with taleban militants willing to cooperate and integrate. On the other hand, there is total lack of synergy between State Department/White House & the Pentagon/CIA.

In the meantime, our ‘’official’’ relations with Afghanistan are improving; and it’s a promising sign. We must place huge emphasis on military as well as commercial cooperation. They have much to gain from us, and surely investments in Afghanistan (especially the natural resources) can bring handsome returns once the environment is ‘conducive’



Interestingly enough, Col. Gen. Sher Ali Khairulloyev (of Tajikistan) had visited Pakistan last December in order to discuss with COAS & CJCSC the establishment of ‘military-technical cooperation.’

Pakistan should play its cards right and work closely with different regional players –on military and commercial front. That will help negate influence or reliance on other less-friendly ‘stake-holders’
 
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WASHINGTON: Afghan President Hamid Karzai has agreed to send a group of military officers to Pakistan for training, a significant policy shift that signals deepening relations between the long-wary neighbours, a major US newspaper reported.

“The move is a victory for Pakistan, which seeks a major role in Afghanistan,” the Washington Post said in a Kabul datelined report.

According to the report, 300 Afghan soldiers are currently being trained under bilateral agreements in other countries, including Turkey and India.

The report claimed officials in both countries have become increasingly convinced that the US war effort there is faltering.

Afghan officials said Karzai has begun to see Pakistan as a necessary ally in ending the war through negotiation with the Taliban or on the battlefield, the paper reported.

“This is meant to demonstrate confidence in Pakistan, in the hope of encouraging them to begin a serious consultation and conversation with us on the issue of the Taliban,” Rangin Dadfar Spanta, Karzai's national security adviser, said of the training agreement.

The previously unpublicised training would involve only a small group of officers, variously described as between a handful and a few dozen, but it has “enormous symbolic importance” as the first tangible outcome of talks between Karzai and Pakistan's military and intelligence chiefs that began in May.

Some key US officials involved in Afghanistan said they knew nothing of the arrangement.

“We are neither aware of nor have we been asked to facilitate training of the Afghan officer corps with the Pakistani military,” Lt. Gen. William B. Caldwell IV, head of the Nato training command in Afghanistan, said.

Washington has spent $27 billion to train and equip Afghan security forces since 2002, and President Obama's war strategy calls for doubling the strength of both the army and police force there by October 2011 to facilitate the gradual departure of US troops.

This week, Gen. David H. Petraeus, confirmed Wednesday as the new US and Nato war commander, said the United States wants to “forge a partnership or further the partnership that has been developing between Afghanistan and Pakistan.”

In addition to taking military action against alleged Taliban sanctuaries inside its borders, Petraeus said, it is “essential” that Pakistan be involved “in some sort of reconciliation agreement” with the insurgents.

US officials are generally pleased with the rapprochement between Afghanistan and Pakistan, but the rapid progress of the talks has given some an uneasy feeling that events are moving outside US control.

While building Afghanistan's weak army is a key component of US strategy, more than 300 Afghan soldiers are currently being trained under bilateral agreements in other countries, including Turkey and India.

Pakistan has been pushing for months for a training deal, and Spanta said that a “limited” number of officers would be part of the new agreement. Details were still under discussion, but a senior Pakistani government official said the program was expected to begin “soon.”

Shuja Nawaz, director of the South Asia Center at the Atlantic Council in Washington and an advocate of a Pakistani training program, said the plan could expedite joint operations between the two militaries and reduce suspicions about Pakistan within the Afghan army.

“This is a major move,” Nawaz said. “It will have a powerful signalling effect in both countries.”

Analysts and officials see a broader thaw in Afghanistan-Pakistan relations over the past year. Pakistani scholarships have been accepted by a number of Afghan university students, and Pakistan is training Afghan civilian officials, Spanta said.

“We have seen a paradigm shift in the relationship,” said Mohammad Sadiq, Pakistan's ambassador to Afghanistan. “And of course, both sides are benefiting from it.”
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...ws/pakistan/04-******-military-training-qs-03
 
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^hope this is true, because the afghans are being 'pulled' from all sides - iran, russia, india, china, and now pakistan - they have to now 'decide' what is in their best interest, and pakistan shd facilitate that (which unfortunately in the past has not been the case) - internally the afghans must accept a larger 'role' for the pashtun populations and the influence of the northern alliance of tajiks, uzbeks, hazaras etc must be 'capped'.
 
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