Pakistan to scrap law allowing dual-national overseas Pakistanis to vote

[maithil]

Remittances are not going to drop. There is a reason why overseas people send money. Not giving voting rights is not going to change that reason.

 

[Wood]

Its not that smart. If overseas Pakistan start withdrawing their funds held in accounts in Pakistan it will cause a massive financial crisis. Pakistan has a lot of loan to pay in USD. If PKR goes down, those will become much harder to pay back. They import almost all of their medicines, edible oil, fuel etc. IF that 23 billion goes to 5 billion and money held in Pakistan is withdraw, soon enough Pakistani living in Pakistan will have to pay 50,000 PKR for a vial of insulin for instance. You see what happens when financial system of a country goes south, you can look at Sri Lanka. What is standing in between that fate and current situation in Pakistan are overseas Pakistani.

I salute them that during the pandemic year they remitted 17% more. The biggest increase in remittance of any nationality. These narrow political gains can be finally the straw that will break the proverbial camel's back.

I don't think that this will affect remittance much. The month of April has seen an increase in remittance year over year. We will see if there is a precipitous decline as many here think it would. Electoral implications of overseas Pakistanis voting is bad for PDM. I've never seen a Pakistani in Canada who does not want to vote for Imran.

 

[maithil]

I don't think that this will affect remittance much. The month of April has seen an increase in remittance year over year. We will see if there is a precipitous decline as many here think it would. Electoral implications of overseas Pakistanis voting is bad for PDM. I've never seen a Pakistani in Canada who does not want to vote for Imran.

Has there been any noticeable drop in Roshan digital account in last one month ? Would have been reported if that was the case.

This saviour complex in overseas individuals is amusing. They invest because they get more ROI than what they get in their country of residence.

 

[Wood]

Has there been any noticeable drop in Roshan digital account in last one month ? Would have been reported if that was the case.

This saviour complex in overseas individuals is amusing. They invest because they get more ROI than what they get in their country of residence.

Naya Pakistan certificates are term deposits. So I doubt if there will be a withdrawal soon. But there may be a drop in inflow because of uncertainty with new administration policy. My guess is that Shahbaz will keep the Naya Pakistan scheme and after a few slow months, investors will return with confidence

 

[HydraChess]

This saviour complex in overseas individuals is amusing. They invest because they get more ROI than what they get in their country of residence.

You DO know that India and Pakistan are NOT considered as "investment grade" or near non investment grade when it comes to debt. Also due to lax laws private properties do not enjoy as much protection as it does in say USA. Both countries have a serious risk profile when it comes to investment. So yes, RoI needs to be high and non-monetory returns (like dual citizenship) need to be present to entice investment. RoI is a function of RISK. India and Pakistan are MUCH MUCH riskier investments than say EFT. When a company comes and opens office in India, look at how much concessions they demand from cheap land to tax free 5 years or more. India and Pakistan have no problem in allowing that but cannot allow simple election and dual nationality to its OWN people! What a joke!


Its nothing but petty political gains and jealousy of these beaurocrats and those who cannot achieve what they want in their life. That is the basis of all this. Why can most of Europe allow dual nationality but India can not? Why can Canada allow or US allow but India has trouble? What kind of snowflake India is?

Its NOT saviour complex. Its reality of both nations. By rejecting their daispora, they will only damage themselves. And lets face it, whats the objection to dual citizenship? Just stupid concepts like empty-"patriotism".

At the end of the day, its political manipulation nothing else. You increase risk profile of the investment by denying them voting rights or in case of India by denying them legitimate business right and citizenship right altogether, you loose the investments. Its that simple. No one does anyone any favours without return for too long. Patriotism does not fill the belly.

Indian diaspora sends much less money to India in form of remittance even though they have higher income and numbers is the proof of it. You keep your own people at arms length, they will return the favour. Pakistan is starting to do that, it will see the similar results in due time. That or IK returns to power to restore confidence of the diaspora.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

This is India's way of cutting ties that still keep Pakistan connected with the rest of the world. India forces all tech people of Pakistani background to provide a certificate which shows they have cancelled their Pakistani nationality before they issue visa to a dual national. Given their strength and presence in the IT sector when Pakistani expats in foreign countries need to travel to India for meetings/work - this is a requirement (the cancellation cert). What this ends up doing is it cuts more and more ties to Pakistan of some of the best national resources. This PML and PPP government just did this en mass - an Indian policy. Unbelievable.
I know many Pakistanis who are dual nationals who bring into Pakistan millions of dollars worth of contracts. With this we'll single handedly kill another critical link. TOTAL MADNESS!!!

 

[HydraChess]

This is India's way of cutting ties that still keep Pakistan connected with the rest of the world. India forces all tech people of Pakistani background to provide a certificate which shows they have cancelled their Pakistani nationality before they issue visa to a dual national. Given their strength and presence in the IT sector when Pakistani expats in foreign countries need to travel to India for meetings/work - this is a requirement (the cancellation cert). What this ends up doing is it cuts more and more ties to Pakistan of some of the best national resources. This PML and PPP government just did this en mass - an Indian policy. Unbelievable.

It could be a fallout from Mumbai attack. That Richard Hedley guy visited on a US passport. He was either former or a dual citizen of Pakistan or possibly had ethnic ties.

But I wonder how is it enforced. Do they have a question like : "Do you hold or had held a Pakistani passport in past?" ? Or do they ask you to list all the past or present nationalities in visa application?

 

[maithil]

You DO know that India and Pakistan are NOT considered as "investment grade" or near non investment grade when it comes to debt. Also due to lax laws private properties do not enjoy as much protection as it does in say USA. Both countries have a serious risk profile when it comes to investment. So yes, RoI needs to be high and non-monetory returns (like dual citizenship) need to be present to entice investment. RoI is a function of RISK. India and Pakistan are MUCH MUCH riskier investments than say EFT. When a company comes and opens office in India, look at how much concessions they demand from cheap land to tax free 5 years or more. India and Pakistan have no problem in allowing that but cannot allow simple election and dual nationality to its OWN people! What a joke!


Its nothing but petty political gains and jealousy of these beaurocrats and those who cannot achieve what they want in their life. That is the basis of all this. Why can most of Europe allow dual nationality but India can not? Why can Canada allow or US allow but India has trouble? What kind of snowflake India is?

Its NOT saviour complex. Its reality of both nations. By rejecting their daispora, they will only damage themselves. And lets face it, whats the objection to dual citizenship? Just stupid concepts like empty-"patriotism".

At the end of the day, its political manipulation nothing else. You increase risk profile of the investment by denying them voting rights or in case of India by denying them legitimate business right and citizenship right altogether, you loose the investments. Its that simple. No one does anyone any favours without return for too long. Patriotism does not fill the belly.

Indian diaspora sends much less money to India in form of remittance even though they have higher income and numbers is the proof of it. You keep your own people at arms length, they will return the favour. Pakistan is starting to do that, it will see the similar results in due time. That or IK returns to power to restore confidence of the diaspora.

Dual nationality is a big No in India. All across political spectrum. Voting rights for people having citizenship of another country is never going to happen. We do not need to follow western countries blindly.

As far as remittances are concerned, they are not going to decrease in absolute terms. Almost half of that comes from gulf. Remittances to GDP ratio is going down with every passing year which is a healthy sign. FDI already is similar to remittances.

Pakistan OTOH is different story .

 

[maithil]

Naya Pakistan certificates are term deposits. So I doubt if there will be a withdrawal soon. But there may be a drop in inflow because of uncertainty with new administration policy. My guess is that Shahbaz will keep the Naya Pakistan scheme and after a few slow months, investors will return with confidence

Yes.. most likely. Remittances usually tend to go up during economic downturn. Let's see what happens.

 

[Finer]

I can understand since in the long run dual nationality will cause Pakistan to collapse. That is the reason increased inflation and made it difficult for living natives.

Dual nationality must be binned since relying on remittance is short term solution that doesn’t help Pakistan in the long run nor does it help living natives.

It is very key loophole that allowed politicians to loot and store aboard. This policy can put an end to this nonsense.

You cannot have two nationals and not be compromised. That was compromised scenes during the ugly incidents at Madinah masjid.

Overseas have no rights over Pakistan and the living natives in Pakistan. It is only living natives that can decide the fate of Pakistan - not overseas for their money and their votings.

 

[Mav3rick]

What does dual passport ownership has to do with voting? Just don't provide voting facilities to Pakistanis living overseas. However, if any dual citizen Pakistani wants to come to Pakistan to vote then he/she cannot be prevented from doing so regardless of his/her dual Nationality.

I am fed up with all the BS about dual Nationality and holding of multiple Passports. It is as if the law makers and courts are unaware that anyone can get citizenship of UK, Canada, Australia, Turkey, EU, US etc., after investing a sum ranging from a few hundred thousands USD to a million and a half (USD 250k for Turkish Citizenship, USD 1.0 Million for Canada, 1.25 Million for Australia, 1.5 Million for UK etc.). For corrupt people, it is a piece of cake and they can acquire foreign Citizenship whenever they desire so why deprive the Pakistanis who worked hard to earn a 2nd Passport for their safety (consular protection) and ease (visa free travel / visa on arrival facilities) etc.?

 

[jupiter2007]

As we all know Middle East countries don’t offer citizenship. 100% Pakistani living in Middle East are NoT dual citizen.

 

[HydraChess]

Dual nationality is a big No in India. All across political spectrum. Voting rights for people having citizenship of another country is never going to happen. We do not need to follow western countries blindly.

The question is what is the reason behind it? What stops it? Whats so special about India? How is India SO VASTLY different than Pakistan in this matter? I can not see any reason other than simple and stupid ego and jealousy masquerading as security concerns. And honestly, if India did HALF of things right that west did, it would come out much better than what it is right now.

China once was adamant that capitalistic market based economy was a curse from west. It led to 60 million deaths in cultural revolution. Then they learnt from that mistake and went for controlled market based economy and never turned back. Upshot is, decisions taken in pure ego and jealousy with no basis in reality are often stupid. "We do not need to blindly follow west" is a stupid thinking. You need to follow wisely what is good for you. Above all ask the questions about ideological decisions.

As far as remittances are concerned, they are not going to decrease in absolute terms. Almost half of that comes from gulf. Remittances to GDP ratio is going down with every passing year which is a healthy sign. FDI already is similar to remittances.

Remittance will also not go up. A 50-100 billion extra investment and remittance can cover for India's chronic balance of payment issue. Actually, remittance to GDP ratio is NOT a proper metric. What is proper is remittance to export ratio. India's exports have been falling for quite sometime now. Increasing remittance and investment opportunities from diaspora can help cover that.

And NO FDI is NOT similar to remittance. FDI is mostly directed towards institutional and business investors and not diaspora. Diaspora can be a totally separate channel.

India received USD 339.55 billion in FDI over last 5 years (https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-fdi-in-last-5-years/articleshow/89457741.cms). India got 394 billion in remittance in the last 5 years. It could actually get above 600 billion dollars in remittance easily by having more diaspora friendly policies. So yes, remittance for India has been bigger source of forex than FDI.

It is very key loophole that allowed politicians to loot and store aboard. This policy can put an end to this nonsense.

Actually, in India, we do not have dual nationality yet massive amount of money has been stowed away by politicians in off shore accounts. It was a key Modi promise to bring it back. Sadly we all know how it goes. Not much returned to India.

 

[HydraChess]

I am fed up with all the BS about dual Nationality and holding of multiple Passports. It is as if the law makers and courts are unaware that anyone can get citizenship of UK, Canada, Australia, Turkey, EU, US etc., after investing a sum ranging from a few hundred thousands USD to a million and a half (USD 250k for Turkish Citizenship, USD 1.0 Million for Canada, 1.25 Million for Australia, 1.5 Million for UK etc.). For corrupt people, it is a piece of cake and they can acquire foreign Citizenship whenever they desire so why deprive the Pakistanis who worked hard to earn a 2nd Passport for their safety (consular protection) and ease (visa free travel / visa on arrival facilities) etc.?

At its core, its nothing but petty political gains, ego and jealousy among certain parts of government. Current government in Pakistan knows ex-PM IK will gain from votes by overseas Pakistani so they will screw larger interest of the nation.

Common people will be sold the idea that dual nationality leads to divided loyalty (as if politicians like them are loyal to anyone but themselves) and so they will prevent voting rights.

 

[Norwegian]

Smart move by opposition. Imran Khan was wily and tried to tap into his overseas support base. But Imran and the opposition have similar politically motivated partisan motives in this case

Indian Patwari happy as usual