Pakistan To Buy Chinese Plz45(hat)

[Ahassan]

Sources Have Claimed That Pakistan Is In Collaboration With Chinese Norinco In Order To Acquire Chinese Plz45 With Lazer Bugs Woffers............................,

 

[melb4aust]

Sources Have Claimed That Pakistan Is In Collaboration With Chinese Norinco In Order To Acquire Chinese Plz45 With Lazer Bugs Woffers............................,

Could you please provide the source of this information, if you can?

 

[Kaiser]

This would be great but I think itll just be better to go for denel T6 turrent and gun and then upgrade our old M-46 to carry them.

Still the plz-45 packs some awesome firepower

The PLZ45 is the 155mm self-propelled gun-howitzer developed by NORINCO for the export market. The artillery system was jointly developed by the 123 Factory, 127 Factory, 674 Factory and Beijing University of Science and Technology. The PLZ45 beat the US and European competitors in a bid to provide self-propelled artillery systems for the Kuwait Army in 1997. Latest Internet source photos suggest that the artillery may have also entered service with the PLA
PROGRAMME
NORINCO and its subcontractors developed the PLZ45 155mm self-propelled gun-howitzer system in the early 1990s for the export market. The artillery system is armed with a 155mm main gun derived from the NORINCO’s Type 89 (PLL01) 155mm/45-calibre towed gun-howitzer. It does not utilise the Type 321 utility tracked chassis used by most of Chinese indigenous artillery systems. Instead, it has a newly designed tracked chassis with better performance.
In the 1997 international competition to provide Kuwaiti Army with a battalion of self-propelled artillery systems, the PLZ-45 surprisingly beat the US and European competitors to win the contract. Apart from political reasons to repay China’s support in the UN resolution to liberate Kuwait from Iraqi occupation, the excellent performance of the artillery system also played an important role in the decision. A battalion of howitzers were delivered to the Kuwait along with a full package of support, command and control, forward observer, and radar vehicles. Impressed by the artillery’s performance, Kuwait ordered additional 74 PLZ45 gun-howitzers in 2001.
Initially the PLZ45 was not developed for the PLA since its standard artillery at division level is the Soviet 152mm, not Western 155mm. However, there has been speculations that the PLA may adopt the Western 155mm designs to replace its 152mm artillery guns in the future. A small number of 155mm Type 89 towed gun-howitzer has already been delivered to the PLA. Internet source photos also show PLZ45 with PLA ensign in fire test, an indication that the PLA45 or its improved model may eventually be accepted by the PLA.
ARMAMENT
The PLZ45 is armed with a 155mm, 45-calibre main gun. China obtained the 155mm/45-calibre howitzer technology from Austria in the 1980s, and developed its own 155mm/45-calibre gun in 1986.
The turret has an elevation of +72 to -3 degrees with 360 degree traverse. The main gun has a semi-automatic loader and an electrically controlled and hydraulically operated rammer that enables projectile loading to take place at any angle of elevation with the charge being loaded manually. The gun-howitzer has a crew of five.
There is also a roof-mounted W-85 12.7mm anti-aircraft machine gun and two sets of four-barrel smoke grenade launchers on the turret's side.
Ammunitions are stored at the rear of the turret. A total of 30 rounds for the gun-howitzer and 480 rounds for the machine gun are carried onboard. 24 howitzer rounds are carried in the loader and 6 rounds on the right side below the loader.
The fire-control system of the PLZ45 includes an automatic laying system, optical sighting system, gun orientation and navigation system, and a GPG receiver.
MUNITIONS
The PLZ45 fires a range of Extended Range Full Bore (ERFB) ammunition, including High Explosive (ERFB/HE), Base Bleed High Explosive (ERFB-BB/HE), ERFB-BB/RA, ERFB/WP, ERFB/Illuminating, ERFB/Smoke, and ERFB-BB/Cargo.
China obtained the Russian Krasnopol laser-guided projectile technology in the 1990s, and has successfully developed its own 152/155mm laser-guided ammunitions. Designed to defeat armoured vehicles and weapon emplacements, the projectile has inertial mid-course guidance and semi-active laser homing. The projectile has a range of 3~20km, and can hit a target by the first shot without registration.
OPERATION
standard PLZ45 battalion consists of 3 batteries, each with 6 PLZ45 self-propelled gun-howitzers (SPGH) and 6 PCZ45 ammunition support vehicles (ASV). Each battery has a battery command post and 3 battery reconnaissance vehicles (BRV), both of which are based on the Type 85 APC. These are supported by W653A armoured recovery vehicles, 704-1 artillery locating and fire correction radar, 702-D meteorological radar, and fire support maintenance vehicles.
PROPULSION
The gun-howitzer is powered by a 520hp turbocharged diesel, giving a max road speed of 40km/h.
SPECIFICATIONS
Crew: 5
Combat weight: 33t
Dimension: (Length) 10.52m; (width) 3.30m; (height with AAMG) 3.52m; (height without AAMG) 2.60mAnti-NBC: Collective
Fire-Supression System: Yes
Calibre: 155mm
Barrel Length: 45 calibre
Barrel Life: 2,500 firings
Maximum Firing Range: (High Explosive or HE): 24km; (Extended Range Full Bore, or ERFB) 30km; (Extended Range Full Bore, Hollow Base, Base Bleed, or ERFB-HB-BB) 39km
Rate of Fire: intense 4~5 rounds/min; sustained 2 rounds/min
Loading system: semi-automatic
Fire Control: Direct or indirect firing with electro-optical sighting system for day/night operations; onboard computer; GPS
Second Weapon: 12.7 mm anti-aircraft machine gun
Smoke Grenade: Two sets of 4-barrel launchers
Onboard Ammunition Load: (155mm) 30; (12.7mm) 480

 

[A.Rahman]

Please post the link.

 

[MOO]

If this is true than this is difiinetely good news for the Armed Forces.


Kuwait PLZ45 155mm self-propelled artillery systems with desert camo in excercise.

 

[Munir]

I don't like post without decent background. What makes this Chinese product worth buying? Let me close it with:

"Military Sale to Pakistan of 115 M109A5 155mm self-propelled howitzers as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $56 million."

Pakistan had already a lot of M109. They got doubled it with the almost latest version. And now they should go for another product?

topic closed.

 

[Ahassan]

Sir this is absolutely wrong iam servivg in army and pakistan army has only 165 M109A3 and not A5 or A6 remember this is being ditributed among pakistan artillery units suchs as (30SP),(19SP),(31SP),(14SP),......................and(56SP)..............last year bush administration approved to let pakistan have M109A3 which are old versions of A5, such that A3 doesnt have laser techno and the price was $110millions not $56million so we are renewing all are main artillery bugs from M109A3 to PLZ45 cause they are more advanced and cheap plus we are getting full technology transfer of PLZ45 from end of this year actually and they ae not doubled with latest technology or version wat u say,actually iam from pak army but in france as military attache........,

 

[master_fx]

Sir this is absolutely wrong iam servivg in army and pakistan army has only 165 M109A3 and not A5 or A6 remember this is being ditributed among pakistan artillery units suchs as (30SP),(19SP),(31SP),(14SP),......................and(56SP)..............last year bush administration approved to let pakistan have M109A3 which are old versions of A5, such that A3 doesnt have laser techno and the price was $110millions not $56million so we are renewing all are main artillery bugs from M109A3 to PLZ45 cause they are more advanced and cheap plus we are getting full technology transfer of PLZ45 from end of this year actually and they ae not doubled with latest technology or version wat u say,actually iam from pak army but in france as military attache........,

interesting leak.......

 

[Ahassan]

this is not leak but some commin info......................,

 

[Sid]

But 'airbus', I thought that Pakistan Army was upgrading its artillery with M109A5 under MNNA status frm the US as is evident from the news article quoted above (115 pieces).

I think the decision to buy the Chinese pieces is a page taken out by PA frm PAF's book of having a mix of two systems; one expensive but fielded in limited numbers (as PAF is doing with F-16s and the army is going to do with M109A5s) and one cheaper but fielded in larger numbers (like PAF is doing with Jf-17s and the army is going to do with the PLZ45).

 

[master_fx]

PLZ05 would be much better........ PLA will go for that!!

 

[lamdacore]

This would be great but I think itll just be better to go for denel T6 turrent and gun and then upgrade our old M-46 to carry them.

Still the plz-45 packs some awesome firepower

here is the specs for M109 series upto A5.

M109 155mm SP Howitzer
PERFORMANCE SPECIFICATIONS
MAJOR ITEM:
Model........................................................M109A2/A3/A4/A5

Line Item Number.......................................K557667
NATIONAL STOCK NUMBER

M109A2........................................................2350-01-031-0586
M109A3........................................................2350-01-031-8851
M109A4........................................................2350-01-277-5770
M109A5........................................................2350-01-281-1719
WEIGHT:

Classification

Empty...................................................................52,000
lb (23,586kg)

Combat
Loaded....................................................55,000
lb (24,948kg)
WIDTH

Overall.................................................................124
in.(3.1M)
HEIGHT

Overall.................................................................120.43
in(3M)

Lowest operable
height........................................109.93 in(2.8M)

Ground
clearance.......................................................18
in(0.45M)
LENGTH

M109A2/A3/A4
w/armament...................................359.38 in(9.12M)

M109A5
w/armament..............................................361.38
in(9.17M)

M109A2/A3/A4/A5 w/o armament..........................243.75
in(6.19M)
SPEEDS

High Speed..........................................35 mph
(56.3kmph)

Low Speed............................................6 mph
(10kmph)

Range..................................................217 miles
(349km)
PRIMARY ARMAMENT (TWO CONFIGURATIONS)

Cannon
assembly.........................................................................M185
(M109A2/A3/A4)

....................................................................................................M284
(M109A5)

Cannon Tube
Length....................................................................238
in. (6.05m) (M185)

....................................................................................................240
in. (6.09m) (M284)

Cannon
Mount.............................................................................M178
(M109A2/A3/A4)

....................................................................................................M182
(M109A5)

Maximum Range
(M109A2/M109A3/M109A4)..........................18,000m

....................................................................................................RAP
23,500m

Maximum Range
(M109A5).........................................................22,000m

....................................................................................................RAP
30,000m

Maximum Rate of
Fire..................................................................4
rds/min for 3 min

Sustained Rate of
Fire..................................................................1
rd/min for 60 min

...................................................................................................1
rd/ 3 min thereafter

SECONDARY ARMAMENT

Machine
gun................................................................................Caliber
50, M2, Heavy barrel
1 M185 Cannon (M109A2/A3/A4)
M284 Cannon (M109A5)
2 Caliber 50 Machine Gun, M2
3 Panoramic Telescope Shield and Indirect Fire Telescope
4 Cannon Mount M178 (M109A2/A3/A4)
M182 (M109A5)
5 Cab
6 Hull
7 Direct Fire Periscope









Now if we compare the max range, rate of fire, and sustained rate of fire.......to me it seems that the Plz45 wins easy. No wonder Kuwait decided to go for it as well. However, i am confused as to which deal pakistan is going with i.e. the M109s or the Plz45 or both????

If we go for both, then i dont see any harm in it because i think that the western rounds could be used with the Plz45 plus there is also the guided-munitions capability. Hence, i vote for Plz45 over M109.

 

[ChinaWall65]

PLZ05 would be much better........ PLA will go for that!!

It is going to take a long time for Pakistan to get PLZ05...they may have only started batch production for China not long ago, so Pakistan will get them some time after China recieves them

 

[master_fx]

It is going to take a long time for Pakistan to get PLZ05...they may have only started batch production for China not long ago, so Pakistan will get them some time after China recieves them

no, no, no..... u got confused here PLZ05 and PLZ45 is completely different!!!!
pakistan will go for PLZ45(will not enter service with PLA only for export) and PLA will go for PLZ05 (improved version of PLZ45 fit with automatic loading system and an enlarged turret):biggrin:

 

[Ahassan]

pakistan still goes for plz45 rather than M109A3 or A5,PLZ45 are much more capable and more advance then M109A3 or A5 plus it is much more cheap pakistan is also getting full technology transfer of these ...................................