Pakistan to ask Saudi Arabia, UAE: Convert $5 bn deposits into loans

[Old School]

Oh no ! This will lead to more looting and eventual mountain of debts . Debtzilla indeed roaring !

 

[zeeshe100]

this is the amount Pakistan government was not allowed to use it was just a deposit ..Pakistan government will able to use this amount by turning it in to loans it will help Pakistan and future development plans .

 

[Wikki019]

Take 12 years and give me results if you can.only condition is that middle class and poor must survive in these 12 years.you guys always think about people in charge but don't think about poor.if this government do something for poor,I will appreciate and hug you.we should think about poverty.our economy is suffering badly.

This was not the question, tell me a solution where you will not take loan but will survive CAD, and massive debt repayment.

 

[Arsalan 345]

This was not the question, tell me a solution where you will not take loan but will survive CAD, and massive debt repayment.

i am not stopping you from taking loans but where is improvement?i don't see any improvement.

 

[Itachi]

One thing everyone isn't talking about is interest...whether on this loan or any other previous loan...

Isn't interest haram in Islam?? Hasn't Prophet Muhammad SAW said that he'll wage war against the lender, the taker and the accountant of such transactions??

 

[BATMAN]

this is the amount Pakistan government was not allowed to use it was just a deposit ..Pakistan government will able to use this amount by turning it in to loans it will help Pakistan and future development plans .

There's no development any where in Pakistan, just waste of resources all around!
All of the money is being wasted on protocols of ministers and their ball licking bureaucrats and poorly planed money dispensing schemes, like Benazir income support, etc.

Still, i'm open to discuss any objective development, which may have been going around, followed by proper planning !

 

[nahtanbob]

One thing everyone isn't talking about is interest...whether on this loan or any other previous loan...

Isn't interest haram in Islam?? Hasn't Prophet Muhammad SAW said that he'll wage war against the lender, the taker and the accountant of such transactions??

if interest is haram you are basically saying money has no time value

 

[ziaulislam]

Brother Dark Knight, why has the PTI Government emulated the previous PML-N tenure but failed miserably at it so far?

Sixteen-months is a long time to "fix" the economy but all we see is Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf's Baby Debtzilla growing and no relief being given to the people.

How come the PML-N Government did not had to impose poverty on the nation, cut down imports, devalue the currency, decrease trade deficit, have the burden of $95 billion in external debt but still somehow managed to grow the economy at 5.2%?

Whats your solution to plug 20 billion dollars of current account deficit(foreign loans) that PMLN left for year 2017-2018? And 12 billion dollars of deficit left for year 2018-2019..which has just equalized to zero now..

So where do we bring the 35 billion dollars of the deficit ?

For rupees we can print rupees but what about dollars? Do you have printing machine??

 

[HAIDER]

People need to stop having babies , try use protection for the sake of coming generation. How the hell a govt can achieve any mega goal with such high birth rate ..... take away women from these rabbits ...

 

[BATMAN]

People need to stop having babies , try use protection for the sake of coming generation. How the hell a govt can achieve any mega goal with such high birth rate ..... take away women from these rabbits ...

Wasn't it a conspiracy of Nawaz Sharif bureaucracy?

 

[Itachi]

if interest is haram you are basically saying money has no time value

Any money sitting somewhere locked up magically has it's value increased over multiple years in a scam.

That's why it's forbidden in Islam & Christianity. It was forbidden in Judaism too until the Jews rewrote their book, the Torah, to say that they can lend money to non-Jews...

Interest & debt are one of the major, if not the most, vile of human creations. Interest makes the rich richer and the poor poorer....just look at the debt traps of the present and the past.

This is getting off topic but if you want to discuss this, we can do it somewhere else.

But at the end of the day, it is haram because of many good reasons, no debate about it.

 

[nahtanbob]

Any money sitting somewhere locked up magically has it's value increased over multiple years in a scam.

That's why it's forbidden in Islam & Christianity. It was forbidden in Judaism too until the Jews rewrote their book, the Torah, to say that they can lend money to non-Jews...

Interest & debt are one of the major, if not the most, vile of human creations. Interest makes the rich richer and the poor poorer....just look at the debt traps of the present and the past.

This is getting off topic but if you want to discuss this, we can do it somewhere else.

But at the end of the day, it is haram because of many good reasons, no debate about it.

What is money at the end of the day ? it is a piece of metal or piece of paper. you are assuming people are not making more money by making more coins or printing more paper

If the Prophet had to comment on interest he was probably arguing against excessive interest rates of those days (which could be as high as 100% to 1000% interest rate - it reflected the risk in loaning money)

 

[Itachi]

What is money at the end of the day ? it is a piece of metal or piece of paper. you are assuming people are not making more money by making more coins or printing more paper

If the Prophet had to comment on interest he was probably arguing against excessive interest rates of those days (which could be as high as 100% to 1000% interest rate - it reflected the risk in loaning money)

Islam is against all types of Interest, whether small or big.

Think about it, Interest creates more money out of thin air. You're lending someone 100 gold coins but expecting back 105 or 120??

That just means that the taker has to spend more time to earn it back and the lender just has to lend enough money to not even do anything but sit back and relax!

• "To take usury for money lent is unjust in itself, because this is to sell what does not exist, and this evidently leads to inequality which is contrary to justice" -Thomas Aquinas [1]

• "You cannot make money just with money." -Martin Luther
  
  
• "The most hated sort, and with the greatest reason, is usury, which makes a gain out of money itself and not from the natural object of it. For money was intended to be used in exchange but not to increase at interest. And this term interest (tokos), which means the birth of money from money is applied to the breeding of money because the offspring resembles the parent. Wherefore of all modes of getting wealth, this is the most unnatural.” -Aristotle
  

An important distinction that earlier religious clerics understood was that money is a means of exchange. It is not meant in it of itself to be a source of income. "You can invest money by buying goods and products and selling them as a businessman. But when you loan money and make money off the money, you have perverted the purpose of money which is a means of exchange. And you have made it an end." [2]

Today Riba (Interest) gives banks and the rich an incentive to lend money without fear of loss. Sequential years of banks lending/borrowing to the people helps stretch the gap between the rich and the poor. In the last few decades entire countries, governments and corporations have also gotten involved in riba on a massive scale. And we now live in a time where it's actually possible to see the aftermath dealing with Interest on a global scale.


Riba (Interest) helps create massive and permanent gaps between the rich and the poor. And unless we make radical changes soon; you can expect this gap to only widen further:

• In 1960, the 20% of the world’s people in the richest countries had 30 times the income of the poorest 20% — in 1997, 74 times as much!
• The wealthiest nation on Earth has the widest gap between rich and poor of any industrialized nation.
• The poorest 40 percent of the world’s population accounts for 5 percent of global income. The richest 20 percent accounts for three-quarters of world income.

At the end of the day, we can only make guesses about the full wisdom on why riba in all of its forms is so evil. Whether it's $1 or $1000, by taking interest you are supporting this economic slavery system.


1) https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/aquinas-usury.asp

2)

 

[nahtanbob]

Islam is against all types of Interest, whether small or big.

Think about it, Interest creates more money out of thin air. You're lending someone 100 gold coins but expecting back 105 or 120??

Give me a single reason I should loan you 100 gold coins. There is always a risk you will not pay me back the 100 gold coins.
you need to study the underpinnings and philosophy of finance

 

[Itachi]

Give me a single reason I should loan you 100 gold coins. There is always a risk you will not pay me back the 100 gold coins.
you need to study the underpinnings and philosophy of finance

You still haven't looked at the bigger picture...

If there is no risk involved with charging interest, how is there "risk" without charging interest??

All banks & governments lend money on the basis that it can be returned, with interest so lending without interest shouldn't matter since you only lend money in the first place if you know you'll get it back.

If you know you won't get it back then that's basic debt traps, of which there are many, in the present & the past. Putting interest on top of the money lent only makes the lender richer & the receiver poorer since the receiver now has to work harder to pay back the money.

You should also not forget this part which I wrote in the last post:

Today Riba (Interest) gives banks and the rich an incentive to lend money without fear of loss. Sequential years of banks lending/borrowing to the people helps stretch the gap between the rich and the poor. In the last few decades entire countries, governments and corporations have also gotten involved in riba on a massive scale. And we now live in a time where it's actually possible to see the aftermath dealing with Interest on a global scale.


Riba (Interest) helps create massive and permanent gaps between the rich and the poor. And unless we make radical changes soon; you can expect this gap to only widen further:

• In 1960, the 20% of the world’s people in the richest countries had 30 times the income of the poorest 20% — in 1997, 74 times as much!
• The wealthiest nation on Earth has the widest gap between rich and poor of any industrialized nation.
• The poorest 40 percent of the world’s population accounts for 5 percent of global income. The richest 20 percent accounts for three-quarters of world income.