Pakistan - The only Nuclear Armed State without a Sea-Based deterrent

[Hassan Guy]

The only plausible way Pakistan could pursue this is by a conventionally-powered ballistic missile submarine. Basically, think of a production-grade Type 032 Qing-class submarine. However, the success of this boat will depend on how well the enlarged size can be mitigated in terms of noise (i.e. acoustic signature) and the propulsion output. The latter is key in order to ensure that the SSBP (i.e. air-independent propulsion powered ballistic missile submarine) is as fast as the Yuan or Agosta.

Wouldn't a nuclear reactor be easier to build than a AIP system? (They've been around much longer)

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Wouldn't a nuclear reactor be easier to build than a AIP system? (They've been around much longer)

Miniature nuclear reactors are very complex and high-risk entities. One might succeed in coming up with a functional reactor, but challenges in terms of cooling, reducing noise, maintaining crew safety, guaranteeing ship integrity, etc. These are complex areas on conventional submarines, but imagine the risk of nuclear radiation in a highly pressurized war machine! Just to get a functional and war-ready SSBN in today's time, we are talking about at least a couple of decade's worth of developmental work at sea!

I'd argue that the Europeans and Americans are seeing the pay-off of SSN and SSBN technology precisely because they've been working at it for a few decades, whereas the Chinese and Indians have only entered the field recently. Pakistan - even assuming the KPC-3 miniature reactor is real and can be made functional - would be an even later entrant. The lead time involved simply makes this an unfeasible venture; we need attack submarines (i.e. SSKs and SSPs) today to help defend our coastlines and coastal assets.

Which leads me to my next point ... SSPs aren't competitors to SSBNs. Rather, they operate different operating paradigms and serve different purposes. SSBNs and SSNs are for ocean going navies with cross-continental strategic interests. They require fast and long-range submarines to deploy ICBMs up the nose of an opponent.

SSPs are defensive entities meant for guarding nearby waters and shores. This is the Pakistan Navy's primary mission objective, and an agile, quiet and affordable system - i.e. SSPs - are the appropriate solution. Not SSBNs.

 

[Falcon26]

sir kindly provide some evidence that we have SLCM? if you have and i am not talking about anti ship cruise missiles from submarines thank you sir

Per H Khan Pakistan has tested SLCM Babur 3. Date of test not given but might be breaking news seeing that he just posted the news.

 

[Hassan Guy]

Miniature nuclear reactors are very complex and high-risk entities. One might succeed in coming up with a functional reactor, but challenges in terms of cooling, reducing noise, maintaining crew safety, guaranteeing ship integrity, etc. These are complex areas on conventional submarines, but imagine the risk of nuclear radiation in a highly pressurized war machine! Just to get a functional and war-ready SSBN in today's time, we are talking about at least a couple of decade's worth of developmental work at sea!

I'd argue that the Europeans and Americans are seeing the pay-off of SSN and SSBN technology precisely because they've been working at it for a few decades, whereas the Chinese and Indians have only entered the field recently. Pakistan - even assuming the KPC-3 miniature reactor is real and can be made functional - would be an even later entrant. The lead time involved simply makes this an unfeasible venture; we need attack submarines (i.e. SSKs and SSPs) today to help defend our coastlines and coastal assets.

Which leads me to my next point ... SSPs aren't competitors to SSBNs. Rather, they operate different operating paradigms and serve different purposes. SSBNs and SSNs are for ocean going navies with cross-continental strategic interests. They require fast and long-range submarines to deploy ICBMs up the nose of an opponent.

SSPs are defensive entities meant for guarding nearby waters and shores. This is the Pakistan Navy's primary mission objective, and an agile, quiet and affordable system - i.e. SSPs - are the appropriate solution. Not SSBNs.

SSP are for conventional attack and defence, Im aware of that
But they don't carry a deference role as in firing nuclear missiles.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

SSP are for conventional attack and defence, Im aware of that
But they don't carry a deference role as in firing nuclear missiles.

"Nuclear missiles" is a broad term. Pakistan will likely be putting in nuclear-tipped Babur SLCMs in the SSPs' torpedo tubes. So we'll probably see the SSPs serve the secondary deterrence role. It might be the better solution as an SSBN will stick out as a sore thumb and will be painted as purely a deterrence system, giving India every incentive to hunt and destroy it. While SSPs which could or could not be deterrence-armed will force them to cast their net wide and thin, giving us many deterrence assets instead of one or two.

 

[Hassan Guy]

"Nuclear missiles" is a broad term. Pakistan will likely be putting in nuclear-tipped Babur SLCMs in the SSPs' torpedo tubes. So we'll probably see the SSPs serve the secondary deterrence role. It might be the better solution as an SSBN will stick out as a sore thumb and will be painted as purely a deterrence system, giving India every incentive to hunt and destroy it. While SSPs which could or could not be deterrence-armed will force them to cast their net wide and thin, giving us many deterrence assets instead of one or two.

Torpedo tubes? How come they cant do those now on the Agosta?
For the most part Im sure VLS will be needed like on the Amur-class.

Plus the payload on a cruise missile is vastly lower than a Ballistic missile - which is also MIRV capable.

 

[IceCold]

I think the title should be edited because we are not only a nuclear nation without sea based deterrent but also one without an ICBM. Our strategic reach is only limited to India while threat level far exceeds that. @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

 

[Falcon26]

"Nuclear missiles" is a broad term. Pakistan will likely be putting in nuclear-tipped Babur SLCMs in the SSPs' torpedo tubes. So we'll probably see the SSPs serve the secondary deterrence role. It might be the better solution as an SSBN will stick out as a sore thumb and will be painted as purely a deterrence system, giving India every incentive to hunt and destroy it. While SSPs which could or could not be deterrence-armed will force them to cast their net wide and thin, giving us many deterrence assets instead of one or two.

Speculate no more

https://twitter.com/x/status/818427713627295745

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Torpedo tubes? How come they cant do those now on the Agosta?

You asked for it and Pakistan delivered ... Maybe you should've prayed for something else, bro

@Falcon26

 

[happybirthdaytoyou]

Mod Please close this thread now its no need for this

 

[H!TchHiker]

This thread should be closed Now

 

[Hassan Guy]

Oh


I knew this thread would become redundant at some point - didn't know it'd be that quick.

You asked for it and Pakistan delivered ... Maybe you should've prayed for something else, bro

@Falcon26

Not the kindest way to put it, but I'll take it.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Its pretty straight forward, Pakistan needs a Nuclear Submaine with SLBM's

Yes we did it. Congrats bro.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

No more.................we have the capability now.
Triad completed and will progress further.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

Guess it's time to close this thread lol