Pakistan Tells MTCR That India's Missile Program Is 'A Danger To Regional Peace And Stability'

[Khanate]

Actually indian Long range missiles are more of a threat to Pakistan economically than shorter range ones.

Samza karo. If you hit Pakistan what happens? China will build it by leasing more ports and land. But if China gets hit then???

Dumbest thing I've read on this forum.

Using the same logic, if India is hit what happens? US will build it. But if US is hit then????????????????????

Utter moron.

 

[schoolboy]

Dumbest thing I've read on this forum.

Using the same logic, if India is hit what happens? US will build it. But if US is hit then????????????????????

Utter moron.

Maybe what he posted was dumb - and good for you for calling it out

But you still don't have a response as to why Pakistan keeps crying out to the UN, US - anybody who cares to listen, each time India conducts a weapons test. At least india doesnt do that every time Pakistan tests a weapon.

Be independent, build your own weapons.

 

[hussain0216]

Maybe what he posted was dumb - and good for you for calling it out

But you still don't have a response as to why Pakistan keeps crying out to the UN, US - anybody who cares to listen, each time India conducts a weapons test. At least india doesnt do that every time Pakistan tests a weapon.

Be independent, build your own weapons.

Because it is a diplomatically smart move from Pakistan to highlight your tests, call for restraint etcetera
Because we have space to test our own weapons then

Every time Pakistan tests a weapon indians go into a downward spiral of self loathing and denial

 

[schoolboy]

Because it is a diplomatically smart move from Pakistan to highlight your tests, call for restraint etcetera
Because we have space to test our own weapons then

Every time Pakistan tests a weapon indians go into a downward spiral of self loathing and denial

And have these 'diplomatically smart moves' yielded results?

Pakistan's situation today is similar to that fable 'The boy who cried wolf'. Reacting like this repeatedly only numbs/dumbs the intentional community to what they perceive as anti-India paranoia. It works once, maybe twice by now these 'protest'' are not worth the paper they are printed on. Most probably end in the trashcan of the receiving embassies.Little wonder that these tests do not elicit any adverse reaction.

It's reflected in pretty much everything. Missile tests, N-weapons, NSG membership, S-council. We want it because India wants it. We oppose it because India has it. It belies a lack of self-identity and self-respect. Indian foreign policy is mediocre but I'm happy not a single official announcement or release has been made trying to sabotage Pakistan's NSG membership the way the Pakistan FO regularly does.

 

[hussain0216]

And have these 'diplomatically smart moves' yielded results?

Pakistan's situation today is similar to that fable 'The boy who cried wolf'. Reacting like this repeatedly only numbs/dumbs the intentional community to what they perceive as anti-India paranoia. It works once, maybe twice by now these 'protest'' are not worth the paper they are printed on. Most probably end in the trashcan of the receiving embassies.Little wonder that these tests do not elicit any adverse reaction.

It's reflected in pretty much everything. Missile tests, N-weapons, NSG membership, S-council. We want it because India wants it. We oppose it because India has it. It belies a lack of self-identity and self-respect. Indian foreign policy is mediocre but I'm happy not a single official announcement or release has been made trying to sabotage Pakistan's NSG membership the way the Pakistan FO regularly does.

They have worked perfectly as they are supposed to


The reality is quite simple certain nations will be incredibly butt hurt at Pakistans nuclear and missile programmes

Pakistan has overcome incredible obstacles to reach where we are and our nuclear and missile programme is the ultimate deterrent and guarantee for our existence

As a result any excuse will be used to stop us and curtail our development
But we will keep building and keep expanding SLCM today, MIRV, MARV, ICBM and SLBM tomorrow

Everything from Nasr to Zarb to Raad to Babur 1, 2 & 3 has caused Pakistan to pass massive obstacles

Our calls for restraint, nuclear limitations, highlighting india's tests are all carefully crafted statements
We KNOW that nothing will happen but when we announce SLCMs or MIRV we can then refer to our unheeded previous responsible calls for restraint as the reason why we have to keep expanding our nuclear and missile programmes

 

[SDS1]

Because it is a diplomatically smart move from Pakistan to highlight your tests, call for restraint etcetera
Because we have space to test our own weapons then

Every time Pakistan tests a weapon Indians go into a downward spiral of self loathing and denial

lol , India never Cry like baby and do Rona dhona ....

Even a nursery fail UK /US kid understand Agni is all about China.... But it take more then PHD education level to understand the same in PAK.

PAK become laughing stock in World forum , when World diplomat get bored then do meeting with PAK.

They have worked perfectly as they are supposed to


The reality is quite simple certain nations will be incredibly butt hurt at Pakistans nuclear and missile programmes

Pakistan has overcome incredible obstacles to reach where we are and our nuclear and missile programme is the ultimate deterrent and guarantee for our existence

As a result any excuse will be used to stop us and curtail our development
But we will keep building and keep expanding SLCM today, MIRV, MARV, ICBM and SLBM tomorrow

Everything from Nasr to Zarb to Raad to Babur 1, 2 & 3 has caused Pakistan to pass massive obstacles

Our calls for restraint, nuclear limitations, highlighting india's tests are all carefully crafted statements
We KNOW that nothing will happen but when we announce SLCMs or MIRV we can then refer to our unheeded previous responsible calls for restraint as the reason why we have to keep expanding our nuclear and missile programmes

Yes very True ... that why Lathe Machine, Steel for missile come from NK etc.......

out of 80+ tech which is used in missile , PAK only made less then 50% of it. rest everyone knows how hard work you do for remaining lefts ones.

 

[schoolboy]

They have worked perfectly as they are supposed to

The reality is quite simple certain nations will be incredibly butt hurt at Pakistans nuclear and missile programmes

Calm down and analyse this claim dispassionately.

What has worked 'perfectly'? The same people to whom these complaints are made - i.e. the western countries continue to name Pakistan adversely with regularity. Have they made any adverse statement about the Indian missile programme? If they have not on what basis can you say this silly approach works?

Till the perception of Pakistan changes complaints of this nature will simply not be taken seriously.

 

[Khanate]

lol , India never Cry like baby and do Rona dhona ....

Even a nursery fail UK /US kid understand Agni is all about China.... But it take more then PHD education level to understand the same in PAK.

PAK become laughing stock in World forum , when World diplomat get bored then do meeting with PAK.

Why shouldn't Pakistan raise issues diplomatically or at the UN?

And have these 'diplomatically smart moves' yielded results?

Pakistan's situation today is similar to that fable 'The boy who cried wolf'. Reacting like this repeatedly only numbs/dumbs the intentional community to what they perceive as anti-India paranoia. It works once, maybe twice by now these 'protest'' are not worth the paper they are printed on. Most probably end in the trashcan of the receiving embassies.Little wonder that these tests do not elicit any adverse reaction.


It's reflected in pretty much everything. Missile tests, N-weapons, NSG membership, S-council. We want it because India wants it. We oppose it because India has it. It belies a lack of self-identity and self-respect. Indian foreign policy is mediocre but I'm happy not a single official announcement or release has been made trying to sabotage Pakistan's NSG membership the way the Pakistan FO regularly does.

Delusional.

NSG was founded as a result of India's misuse of civil nuclear technology for military purpose so you should be the last one to raise any questions. Not to mention, India has contributed greatly to proliferation by training North Korean scientist.

Read:

• India's embarrassing North Korean connection (Al Jazeera)
• India accused of nurturing N. Korea's weapons scientists (Korea Times)
  
• India, North Korea nuclear nexus exposed (Pakistan Today)

Bonus:

Listen to this hilarious 1974 interview of India's Ambassador to United Nations explaining the detonation of a "peaceful" nuclear bomb: https://soundcloud.com/aredpill/india-nuclear-bomb-1974

 

[schoolboy]

Why shouldn't Pakistan raise issues diplomatically or at the UN?

Raising an issue expends diplomatic capital. A country that raises the same issue repeatedly will end up exhausting this capital. Coaxing other governments to make helpful statements works the same way. There are only so many times that someone else can be asked to lend a sympathetic ear - it involves give and take and after a while there is nothing to offer. Pakistan raises issues for everything and without going into the merits of those issues there is no incentive for third parties to act beyond a point. To put it differently the world is desensitized to these repeated statements/demands/complaints.

Such issues are best raised when judicious use of diplomatic capital ensures forthcoming support - as the recent resolution against Israel demonstrates. But I get the perception that Pakistan's diplomats now raise issues with no preparation and unsurprisingly nothing occurs as a consequence.

Delusional.

NSG was founded as a result of India's misuse of civil nuclear technology for military purpose so you should be the last one to raise any questions. Not to mention, India has contributed greatly to proliferation by training North Korean scientist.

Read:
Bonus:

Listen to this hilarious 1974 interview of India's Ambassador to United Nations explaining the detonation of a "peaceful" nuclear bomb: https://soundcloud.com/aredpill/india-nuclear-bomb-1974

I see you still cannot show what positive results come of this strategy. Calling me names will not change that

You have quoted three links on a single incident - interesting read and you have no doubt noted that the news reports quotes the UN Security Council as stating they do not believe there was any intention to help North Korea. Knowing how brainlessly these bureaucrats work I would not be surprised if there was no application of mind on this.

If there was any deliberate proliferation risk you can be sure the US would have hit India hard and refused to support it's candidature - given how vehemently they consider N Korea a security risk.

 

[Khanate]

I see you still cannot show what positive results come of this strategy. Calling me names will not change that

You have quoted three links on a single incident - interesting read and you have no doubt noted that the news reports quotes the UN Security Council as stating they do not believe there was any intention to help North Korea. Knowing how brainlessly these bureaucrats work I would not be surprised if there was no application of mind on this.

If there was any deliberate proliferation risk you can be sure the US would have hit India hard and refused to support it's candidature - given how vehemently they consider N Korea a security risk.

By doubling down on your delusions, you have proven me right.

First, argument from authority is a fallacy, i.e. US would have done something. It doesn't hold any water because we have the example of Israel and even Pakistan. India is in the same boat even after it misused the civilian technology provided to it for military purposes. To deny this is delusional.

More importantly, you have deluded yourself to the point where you can no longer acknowledge that NSG was formed because of India. Look closely, there are no personal attack in my argument. These are dispassionate arguments.

Raising an issue expends diplomatic capital. A country that raises the same issue repeatedly will end up exhausting this capital. Coaxing other governments to make helpful statements works the same way. There are only so many times that someone else can be asked to lend a sympathetic ear - it involves give and take and after a while there is nothing to offer. Pakistan raises issues for everything and without going into the merits of those issues there is no incentive for third parties to act beyond a point. To put it differently the world is desensitized to these repeated statements/demands/complaints.

Such issues are best raised when judicious use of diplomatic capital ensures forthcoming support - as the recent resolution against Israel demonstrates. But I get the perception that Pakistan's diplomats now raise issues with no preparation and unsurprisingly nothing occurs as a consequence.

Of course, it is Pakistan's right to raise any issue diplomatically be it India's human rights violations in Kashmir or India's support of terrorism in Pakistan. After all, the shame must be made more shameful by publicising it (Karl Marx).

 

[schoolboy]

By doubling down on your delusions, you have proven me right.

First, argument from authority is a fallacy, i.e. US would have done something. It doesn't hold any water because we have the example of Israel and even Pakistan. India is in the same boat even after it misused the civilian technology provided to it for military purposes. To deny this is delusional.

Of course, it is Pakistan's right to raise any issue diplomatically be it India's human rights violations in Kashmir or India's support of terrorism in Pakistan. After all, the shame must be shamed publicly.

I have made no comment on reasons why NSG was formed - it is not something that can be debated. And I do not know where you get the perception that I say otherwise.

Anyway the reasons for NSG formation are immaterial today - the question is on membership, it's use and the cost of getting membership. For that matter even Germany acceded to the UN and NATO.

I also do not see what your point about Israel is -- Israel gets a lot of return for it's diplomatic efforts. Given it's precarious legal position and continuous military tensions it still manages to get commitments from the USD 38 bn over ten years as well as plenty of economic aid. They are a role model of how make successful diplomatic efforts.

 

[Khanate]

I have made no comment on reasons why NSG was formed - it is not something that can be debated. And I do not know where you get the perception that I say otherwise.

Anyway the reasons for NSG formation are immaterial today - the question is on membership, it's use and the cost of getting membership. For that matter even Germany acceded to the UN and NATO.

I also do not see what your point about Israel is -- Israel gets a lot of return for it's diplomatic efforts. Given it's precarious legal position and continuous military tensions it still manages to get commitments from the USD 38 bn over ten years as well as plenty of economic aid. They are a role model of how make successful diplomatic efforts.

And the delusion continues.

None of your counters address the argument I made, i.e., "NSG was founded as a result of India's misuse of civil nuclear technology for military purpose."

Ergo, India joining the NSG weakens the NSG regime. And if India, the original perpetrator, is allowed to join NSG then so can others. You have no argument here unless you oppose the inclusion of all non-NPT members into NSG.

 

[schoolboy]

And the delusion continues.

None of your counters address the argument I made, i.e., "NSG was founded as a result of India's misuse of civil nuclear technology for military purpose."

Ergo, India joining NSG is a sign of weakened NSG regime. And if India, the original perpetrator, is allowed to join NSG then so can others. You have no argument here unless you oppose the inclusion of all non-NPT members into NSG.

Where did I argue otherwise? I said the reasons for NSG's existence cannot be debated, least of all by me. If it makes you happy I can cheerfully acknowledge those reasons.

But we are not debating the reasons for NSG formation.

We are debating the merits of Pakistan's non-stop diplomatic complaints to international bodies.

Off topic, I don't see why India's joining NSG today would be weakening it anymore than Germany or Poland or Lithuania joining NATO is a weakening of NATO.

 

[Khanate]

Where did I argue otherwise? I said the reasons for NSG's existence cannot be debated, least of all by me. If it makes you happy I can cheerfully acknowledge those reasons.

But we are not debating the reasons for NSG formation.

We are debating the merits of Pakistan's non-stop diplomatic complaints to international bodies.

Off topic, I don't see why India's joining NSG today would be weakening it anymore than Germany or Poland or Lithuania joining NATO is a weakening of NATO.

Who told you Pakistan is against India's inclusion into the NSG? Quite the opposite, Pakistan is of the opinion that the inclusions into NSG be criteria-based. That's a positive and fair stance.

 

[schoolboy]

Who told you Pakistan is against India's inclusion into the NSG? Quite the opposite, Pakistan is of the opinion that the inclusions into NSG be criteria-based. That's a positive and fair stance.

This is what Zamir Akram has to say

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...to-india-s-nsg-membership-zamir-akram-2226592

Seems to me Pakistan has already pre-determined that the only criteria that is 'fair' is one by which both countries can qualify. In other words it will oppose any criteria under which is will not qualify but India will.

What to call that - but to say it opposes India's application