PAKISTAN, SOUTH KOREA SIGN MAJOR DEFENCE COOPERATION AGREEMENT

[Beast]

And I believe the Chinese value independent policies, keep in mind that the Chinese bought weapons from the soviets while the soviets were invading Afghanistan and posturing against Pakistan.

Absolutely nonsense. No weapon was bought from soviets by Chinese during the afghan war from 1980 to 1988.

Chinese during that period was together with western against Soviet.

 

[kingQamaR]

Mushraf

Slander at its best. Took our loan and aid and spit at us with load of lies. Your country is corrupted and incompetent. Don't blame us. The evil is you. You Pakistan failed China.

One : Hopes from CPEC - gave a lifeline to otherwise defunct and dysfunctional Pakistani Economy. We Must thank China for this. Ignore the whiners on here china has helped us always

 

[etylo]

Chinese camp is great until you realise they charged us 245% markup on CPEC energy projects and took billions in overpayments. Chinese are no friend, they do what will help them, we need to do the same

i remember back in the day SK was pitching EW gear towards us

Blame all your ills in your country on China eh, and then slander Chinese as the devils in all deals with Pakistan, you people can do much better without China then.

 

[PradoTLC]

@SQ8 @MastanKhan

New theory.

1. Pakistan gives up on Kashmir.
2. Pakistan stops collaborating with China.
3. The U.S. encourages South Korea, Turkey, etc, to sell Pakistan arms.
4. Pakistan re-orients focus towards Afghanistan and Iran.

It's starting to look like that's where Washington wants to steer things.

so murica wants Pakistan to do a sex change?

 

[FuturePAF]

I can see the KAI KF-21 becoming an option. It's certainly a bit more out there, but in actuality, the U.S. had cleared KAI and LM to co-market the T-50 and F/A-50 to the PAF back in 2018.

In such scenarios, the general idea is that the U.S. can still exert control over weapons supply (via ROK), but not have to deal with India red-flagging it in Washington or bringing up blockers with potential Super Bug or future Apache buys.

The other scenario, which goes back to a Carter-era policy, is the U.S. connecting Pakistan to 3rd party loans to finance the purchase of European weapons (e.g., Eurofighter Typhoon or even TFX/MMU). Originally, the PAF had asked the U.S. for the F-16 or F-18L, but the Carter administration declined and, instead, offered to open 3rd party financing routes for the M2K and Jaguar.

The current Biden/Democrat position seems very much akin to the Carter era. A lot will probably come down to Pakistan’s utility vis a vi Iran and Central Asia/Afghanistan.

Considering how the Pakistan-US relationship played out in that era, what lessons can Pakistan draw upon for the current period?

 

[Zarvan]

Seven pages of discussion and we have no clue what deal is about. People are commenting like it's something bigger then CPEC. Relax people

 

[Goritoes]

None of these agreements matter, for as long as we follow orders few shiny stuff will make their way to Pakistan, Army will keep selling the Manjan of liberating Kashmir but in the near future even Kashmiri's won't want to be part of Pakistan, I mean they did miss the chance in 65/99 so now its better for them to stay over there, Pakistan need a Revolution that cleanse the country from its current civil Military leadership, but unfortunately even that can not happen due to the fact that we are a nuclear Power, and chaotic Pakistan and nukes footballing here and there is the last thing world needs, If slavery is what our leaders wants to for the price of few F-sholay and Haare Card, then at least be a good slave to America, be submissive and take your orders from America, surrender Nukes , give them few bases and hope for them to then don't see you as threat.
India surely right now is in better position, but Americans will never make the same mistake, they will help and prepare India to a extent to keep China in check but will never let them grow to become the next China to threaten the US status as a super power, West has crumble Russian economy by Sanctions and a lot of corruption in China/Russian countries, then lack of open immigration also plays a part, in USA thousands of immigrants has reached top position and their minds were put to research and advancement of US and look where they are now, US absorbs everyone and every culture and the cultural superiority which the west gains after the end of cold war gives them a good heads up.

Just on a side note, I saw a ticker recently that 10 red calf's were brought in to Jerusalem from Texas Ranch, those Calf's will be used in the ritual sacrifice which is the last thing left before the Jews build the temple and hence the appearance of their messiah (according to them), Interesting times ahead, if one of those Calf's grow up to be 2 years old with just red hair, than it will be used in that ritual and thus mark the clock for the temple, Honestly the world is so done with us as humans, I can only imagine how the creator is looking down at us, Israfael AS with the horn close to his lips with his eyes gazed upon the throne of Allah waiting for the order, we may not be living in the end times but we sure does live in a very interesting times.

 

[FuturePAF]

Brother, it makes no difference how many tables you hop as long the one's controlling the strings is in charge (US). We've not learned anything from the whole F-16 saga in the 90s till now. I feel we will be making the same mistakes as in the past.

On top, we need to stop looking through the Indian lens that boat has sailed long ago, and quite honestly, we lost that battle ages ago. IOK, as much as it pains Pakistanis to admit it is now an integral part of India along with Siachin, so let's not pretend we're ever going to get it back because the straight answer is no. My relatives who are actively serving and right now posted across the country have come to that conclusion long ago and said we're not getting those territories back, and there never will be a conflict; on top of that if a fully-fledged war does happen, Pakistan will lose and wouldn't be able to hold back the Indians. One of them said during their war gaming and planning at GHQ, Pakistan would be able to hold back at most three weeks, then outside intervention would be needed or ally's to come and assist.

Dealing with the last 50 years of Afghanistan Instability, refugee flows, etc. has hollowed out the economy. It will take at least a generation to rebuild what has been delayed for the last two generations. Perhaps, Kashmir is not lost, but a strategic retreat from the issue is needed to consolidate and rebuild across the entire D.I.M.E. spectrum. Pakistan needs at a minimum parity for a GDP per capita basis to get the support of the Kashmiri business community and even then the Kashmiri would be giving up the 5 times larger Indian tourist market for Pakistan, so better alternative opportunities are also necessary to sway the populace.

 

[araz]

@SQ8 @MastanKhan

New theory.

1. Pakistan gives up on Kashmir.
2. Pakistan stops collaborating with China.
3. The U.S. encourages South Korea, Turkey, etc, to sell Pakistan arms.
4. Pakistan re-orients focus towards Afghanistan and Iran.

It's starting to look like that's where Washington wants to steer things.

1. Giving up on Kashmir tentamounts to neutering Pakistani narrative on the issue of people's right of self determination. The only problem is Kashmiris want independence from both India and Pakistan. This is a solution which is not acceptable to either. So this remains a thorn in the side of solution. Musharraf in 2002 suggested making current boundry as recognized boundry, open trade and access for both sides with a view to independence in due course. However BJP shot it down in flames. Current financial woes do not allow Pakistan to breath rather than think of war.
2. Reduction in collaboration with China is now impossible. However, the Chinese have not been playing ball with us either which remains an issue. There have been significant hinderances with provision of equipment and spares relying mostly on more expensive option of full components to make more money. There has been a move away from China in any case during the last decade as it has been realized that not everything provided by China is the best it can offer. I think there maybe issues with our perception of international issues and trade relationship as well. However, Pakistan and China are not natural allies as China is mostly concentrating on provision whereas our concentration is now on building witb collaboration. In this aspect Pak- Turkiye - Ukraine-South Korea are more natural allies for Pakistan as they are still at that stage where they will collaborate with Pakistan for mutual benefit and economy of scale. Quality of equipment also seems much better. Pakistan from a strategic perspective has a window of a decade and half to grow with these nations to continue this collaboration with meaningful contributions. This MAY also improve its collaboration with China which has its own dimensions but is more of a vendor buyer relationship currently.
3. Turkiye is out of this sphere. How much SK will extend out remains to be seen.
4. As long as collaboration does not involve fomentation of trouble, interference and offensive maneouvres there maybe some scope. Otherwise this would tentamount to political suicide. I hope no government in Pakistan would agree to this.
A

Dealing with the last 50 years of Afghanistan Instability, refugee flows, etc. has hollowed out the economy. It will take at least a generation to rebuild what has been delayed for the last two generations. Perhaps, Kashmir is not lost, but a strategic retreat from the issue is needed to consolidate and rebuild across the entire D.I.M.E. spectrum. Pakistan needs at a minimum parity for a GDP per capita basis to get the support of the Kashmiri business community and even then the Kashmiri would be giving up the 5 times larger Indian tourist market for Pakistan, so better alternative opportunities are also necessary to sway the populace.

Bhai.
Our rampant universal corruption, tax evasion and chronic addiction to living out of our means has hollowed out our economy. Our corrupt elite have just used Afghan situation as an excuse as they will use the floods to line up their coffers.
A

 

[Areesh]

Just on a side note, I saw a ticker recently that 10 red calf's were brought in to Jerusalem from Texas Ranch, those Calf's will be used in the ritual sacrifice which is the last thing left before the Jews build the temple and hence the appearance of their messiah (according to them), Interesting times ahead, if one of those Calf's grow up to be 2 years old with just red hair, than it will be used in that ritual and thus mark the clock for the temple, Honestly the world is so done with us as humans, I can only imagine how the creator is looking down at us, Israfael AS with the horn close to his lips with his eyes gazed upon the throne of Allah waiting for the order, we may not be living in the end times but we sure does live in a very interesting times.

What???

Source?

 

[arslank03]

Slander at its best. Took our loan and aid and spit at us with load of lies. Your country is corrupted and incompetent. Don't blame us. The evil is you. You Pakistan failed China.

Did we ask China to charge 245% markups? You guys are evil and corrupt thieves, id love to join the anti china us lead bloc honestly

 

[RAMPAGE]

@SQ8 @MastanKhan

New theory.

1. Pakistan gives up on Kashmir.
2. Pakistan stops collaborating with China.
3. The U.S. encourages South Korea, Turkey, etc, to sell Pakistan arms.
4. Pakistan re-orients focus towards Afghanistan and Iran.

It's starting to look like that's where Washington wants to steer things.

If Pakistan is indeed steering towards the American camp, I would not rule out Chinese appeasements in the near future. Pakistan is too important an ally for China to neglect.

The Chinese are probably waiting for our political climate to stabilise.

 

[TNT]

Kashmir was lost in 65.. any hope during Kargil conflict - anything else is delusional and built on ignorance and bravado
Commissions come from weapons procurement which can be put to personal profit.

Pakistan can easily handle Afghanistan and act as a police model for it. Iran isn’t being tackled alone, the GCC bloc is happy to help.

Either way, the overall defense collaboration with SK goes beyond that

U r right abt the commissions. But it is a dumb strategy to be policing others. The result will be that afghans and iranians will hate us more and more, this will create more instability, trade ruined, business ruined, more security situations, balochistan and KPK wont see peace, we would be isolated with bad relations with all neighbors. And after all this, india would still hate us, create problems for us and threaten us. We sell ourselves too cheap and our strategists are lapdogs of others.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I find all 4 points a far fetch. Only thing will make all 4 possible if a Marshall type plan was implemented in Pak with full cost bourne by the west. Otherwise that's giving up lots for little gain.

The Pakistan Army leadership, through their treasonous violations of the constitution and manipulation and overthrow of governments throughout Pakistan’s history, is the embodiment of the principle of selling out the country for little gain.

 

[maverick1977]

CPEC was massively destroyed due to corruption by Noonis and others. The return is abysmal.

Btw: what does this corporation include ?