Pakistan not to accept extention in US. strikes

[Ahmad]

@Unity This is coming from someone that would blame Pakistan if an earthquake occurred in Afghanistan. My advise, don't be disloyal to the same hand that fed you during war and misery.

I seriousely wish we never had this so called helping hand from GOPs, that was one of the very big reasons of our misery. By the way, I need to differentiate between GoPs and pakistani public. cuz pakistani public have my heighest regards.

 

[S-2]

"According to Musharaf, one of G.W.Bush's officials had warned Pakistan be with us or with the Terrorists, if they sided with the terrorits, the official said to bomb pakistan to stone age..."

Something of an urban myth. Here's what Richard Armitage actually says about the event. Remember that the conversation never occurred with Musharraf and what he relates was conveyed by the ISI director-the third party-

Armitage Denies Making "Stone Age" Threat-NPR Sept. 22, 2006

Armitage has been one of our absolute best diplomats and I find him perfectly credible.

"...otherwise pakistan would never have abondanded their asset in afghanistan(the taliban). it is a war and cooperation not according to their wish, but compulsary."

Actually, I think that DESERT STORM played heavily upon the Pakistani government. We'd proven in 1991 that we'd go after a major power if necessary.

"...even if they try to stop the supply line, i am sure there is more routes through central asia."

Maybe, maybe not. Everything comes with a price-tag in your region and prices are always subject to a moment's notice change. It's all about leverage.

 

[Enigma SIG]

Sure but it'll be an open break in our relations and all bets are off from that point. Pakistan might as well cut our supply lines at the same time and reconcile itself to having made America its enemy.

Might as well openly declare each other as enemies and shy away from this rather sham of an alliance rather than being hypocrites to each other ?

 

[graphican]

I am little confused...As far as i know there has been no official confirmation that Pak has allowed limited drone attacks..though there are reports that they have agreed in a clandestine fashion to avoid public outcry...However this report seems to suggest they are OK with limited version but against its extention... Can some member please clarify??

Yes, the person who used to think himself god, the great Musharraf (Laenat Ullah Elaih) had accepted US drone attacks and even allowed Americans to enter Pakistan's territory upto 5 kilometers (or 500Meters) in case they were chasing some terrorist running towards Pakistan. There also existed a special gate for Americans at airports and Americans can enter the country without Visa, without checking and their luggage was not subjected to checking. The same person gave Americans two of our airforce bases and when Mushaf Ali Mir, the Chief of Air Staff didn't agree, look what happend to him. He and 16 other officians crashed in the mountains for ever.

That American gate at airports has been closed recently, I guess that 5KM leverage has also been denied but drones are still coming and after Killing Baitullah Mehsoud, Government officially zipped their lips and turned blind eye towards death of women and children that drones are causing. Dam this Leadership!

 

[AstanoshKhan]

The taliban were NEVER recognized by the United States.

You need to check your facts right and then open your big mouth. Let's hear what Hillary got to say about Taliban. Shall we?

Hillary said: "We Funded Taliban."

 

[Naradmuni]

PREDATOR flies because you've chosen to toss away your rights of sovereignty when you permitted these men on your lands and have allowed them to stay there and wage war for eight years.

It would have created more dignity if it said that "pakistan wont acept US strikes anymore" rather than "extension in US strike anymore"

Whats the difference between allowing US to bomb say your 4 cities previously and now possibly 5 cities?

I dont get it. Can anyone explain? Why feel bad if some number of targets have been added in the list?

Taimi, pardon me if I make a light hearted comment here. No offence to anyone.

If virginity or soverinity is lost, its lost forever.

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Somehow you boObs think that we're going to tolerate our enemies making war on Afghans and ourselves from your lands. Are you fools?

I think he came straight from those Pakistan hate forums (where he is very active) and Indians members over there must have pumped him up against Pakistan.

How easy is it for Indians to have proxy wars
How easy is for lobbies to use US anger or make them bullies.

 

[TaimiKhan]

It would have created more dignity if it said that "pakistan wont acept US strikes anymore" rather than "extension in US strike anymore"

Whats the difference between allowing US to bomb say your 4 cities previously and now possibly 5 cities?

I dont get it. Can anyone explain? Why feel bad if some number of targets have been added in the list?

Taimi, pardon me if I make a light hearted comment here. No offence to anyone.

If virginity or soverinity is lost, its lost forever.

No offense taken, as such comments can be expected from people who have no idea how international relations work and what complex factors are involved in international diplomacy. Plus being an Indian member nothing to be surprised about by such comments and by looking at your past record of posts about Pakistan.

May have given you some insight in Indian affairs too about their sovereignty or virginity , but would be wastage of your precious time and off topic.

 

[deckingraj]

Yes, the person who used to think himself god, the great Musharraf (Laenat Ullah Elaih) had accepted US drone attacks and even allowed Americans to enter Pakistan's territory upto 5 kilometers (or 500Meters) in case they were chasing some terrorist running towards Pakistan. There also existed a special gate for Americans at airports and Americans can enter the country without Visa, without checking and their luggage was not subjected to checking. The same person gave Americans two of our airforce bases and when Mushaf Ali Mir, the Chief of Air Staff didn't agree, look what happend to him. He and 16 other officians crashed in the mountains for ever.

That American gate at airports has been closed recently, I guess that 5KM leverage has also been denied but drones are still coming and after Killing Baitullah Mehsoud, Government officially zipped their lips and turned blind eye towards death of women and children that drones are causing. Dam this Leadership!

I can understand your frustration...However seems like they are making fool of the public...On one hand you outright reject drone attacks and associate it with sovereignity on other hand you follow the same clandestine model from Mush era....Damn these politicians..No matter what side of the border they are they will remain the same....

 

[S-2]

"I think he came straight from those Pakistan hate forums (where he is very active) and Indians members over there must have pumped him up against Pakistan."

I have no hate for Pakistanis. I recognize, however, the full impact of sanctuary and have long held that such is deadly to Pakistani-American relations.

Ultimately, your country will have to make a choice about how it shall be known. If you choose sanctuary, then you'll likely experience an open break not just with America, but every nation who's sons and daughters are at risk to help Afghanistan.

Thanks.

 

[deckingraj]

No offense taken, as such comments can be expected from people who have no idea how international relations work and what complex factors are involved in international diplomacy. Plus being an Indian member nothing to be surprised about by such comments and by looking at your past record of posts about Pakistan.

Taimi with all due respect i had similar question on the wording used...If your parliament can outright reject the drone attacks i am not sure why your FM choose to use that language...don't you think it is kind of legitimizing drone attacks in the FATA.....What was the reaction of opposition parties in Pakistan on this news... May be we Indians are reading too much into it...

 

[illuminatus]

"I think he came straight from those Pakistan hate forums (where he is very active) and Indians members over there must have pumped him up against Pakistan."

I have no hate for Pakistanis. I recognize, however, the full impact of sanctuary and have long held that such is deadly to Pakistani-American relations.

Ultimately, your country will have to make a choice about how it shall be known. If you choose sanctuary, then you'll likely experience an open break not just with America, but every nation who's sons and daughters are at risk to help Afghanistan.

Thanks.

So why refuse our offer to fence the border? Why refuse to supply drones? Why insist on killing our innocent sons and daughters at the expense of a handful of miscreants? Believe it or not, Pakistanis residing in the Tribal Areas too have sons and daughters. Wouldn't that be helpful in preventing the sanctuaries from being formed? Please elaborate.

 

[S-2]

"So why refuse our offer to fence the border?"

I don't recall that we have but, more importantly, it's not our choice to fence your border. Nothing prevents Pakistan from doing so on its side of the Afghan-Pakistan border.

Fence away. Build mine fields if you wish. I personally think it's a bad and unmanageable idea but it's not America's decision.

"Why insist on killing our innocent sons and daughters at the expense of a handful of miscreants..."

Your notion of "handful" is interesting given that FATAville is awash in these "miscreants". Great swaths of Pakistani land have been functionally seized by these men and there's a very real war being fought.

I don't recall "insist[ing]" that we kill innocents along with the enemy but you'd be insane to believe that your own army hasn't killed an innocent civilian or two in the course of its operations. HELLFIRE is a precision anti-tank weapon. It hits with amazing accuracy that for which it's aimed.

However, I'd encourage Pakistanis not to aid and abet these men. When you choose to associate or co-habitate with them, you are likely to suffer for that choice. In short, don't live near nor stand next to people that are candidates for HELLFIRE.

"Wouldn't that be helpful in preventing the sanctuaries from being formed?"

You seem not to understand that sanctuary was a choice made by Pakistan back in early 2002. This is an old issue that's finally receiving its just due as the central core issue of this insurgency. Reconciliation of sanctuary as an issue will determine whether Pakistan is welcomed to the family of nations or on the outside looking in along with a select group of others.

That's a fact and it is a reflection of the seriousness of this particular issue. Most Pakistanis have been led to believe that providing our enemy with sanctuary comes with no cost to themselves.

Not so.

Literally everything that's happened to Afghanistan, Pakistan, and America has been a result of decisions to provide sanctuary, to include the taliban's decision to do so for Al Qaeda back in the late nineties. Following 9/11, that sanctuary was no longer respected.

Thanks.

 

[Naradmuni]

No offense taken, as such comments can be expected from people who have no idea how international relations work and what complex factors are involved in international diplomacy. Plus being an Indian member nothing to be surprised about by such comments and by looking at your past record of posts about Pakistan.

May have given you some insight in Indian affairs too about their sovereignty or virginity , but would be wastage of your precious time and off topic.

My friend, I hope to have your word on this. How is it meaningful that US be allowed to bomb targets in some areas and not in others? If its just going to help your cause of liquidating high value targets, threat to pakistan as well. What logically follows is that 1)Either there is something that pakistan doesent want US to eliminate or 2) Bombing FATA (pashtuns) is ok while bombing Punjabis or baloch is strict no no. This is no useless rant. Appreciate your reply

Indian PM rejected US demand of sending troops to afghanistan in 2001 citing disapproval of parliament. Why cant pakistan do so? I know pakistans economic dependence on US. But it is also the other way round, the geopolitical dependence of US on pak.

International relations are not deviced at the cost of popular public sentiments. There has certainly been negligence on the part of GOP to take on board everyone and not deal in private about this drone stuff.

who have no idea how international relations work and what complex factors are involved in international diplomacy

You may never know.

P.S. that argument of UN security council consisting of pak friendly China and US long back, was just a teaser.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Gin Ka Pakistan s2 resides on another forum as well a sweet friend to indians on that forum..here look below:
>>The disease is just to the east. What would it take to TREAT the disease? Can the Pakistani military, most of all it's nuclear weapons, be neutralized or destroyed without them launching a nuclear reprisal on India?Would we have to use our own strategic assets to do so or can it be done conventionally?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/12923-pak-us-relationship-17.html#post559029