Pakistan Need to have JV in advanced UCAV Projects

[Lightning Soul]

I wanted to ask that why doesn't Pakistan start some Joint Venture in the development of any advanced UCAV MALE or HALE programs. It would help Pakistan a lot in the long run. I want this to be realistic and rational. Such a project could act as a great strategic advantage in the long run due to the following reasons:

Reasons:
* Pakistan already have now formed the basic knowledge and Tech for developing and manufacturing UAVs of decent design. (Falco, Shahpar, Burraq etc)
* In this era of Artificial Intelligence, the world is leading towards automation. (Beyond 5th) Future generation fighters will be unmanned most likely as R&D already going on for such projects.
* UCAV Programs will be relatively cheaper to operate than manned fighter projects plus it would resolve many other factors like ( Loss of human life, Fighter training cost etc)
* Pakistan can never attain parity against India in fielding the number of fighter aircrafts due to geographical and economical limitations but fielding large number of UCAVs is feasible as well as possible .
* IMO Pakistan is more technologically advanced in Drone Tech as compared to its rival at current stage and deployment of UAVs and UCAVs in WOT have also provided vast real-time experience in operating them.
* Therefore, it is the need of the hour that Pakistan instead of being reactive should rather become proactive in this field to take this edge and utilize it as its advantage in co-development of UCAVs .

Force Multiplier:
* Imagine our UCAVs backed up by our fighter jets fielded against the enemy Fighters. They could act as decoys, the adversary would have to spend relatively greater resources on handling the UCAVs and even if they're brought down, the impact of losing a UCAV against losing an Aircraft would be very low.
* Integration of the UCAVs with the Ground stations and guidance by the AWACS and (future possible) modern fighter aircrafts like J-31 or Su-35 will also be a plus point.

Limitations:
* As I don't want to sound like starting another wish list. I want the discussion to be kept realistic and logical.
The main limitation for Pakistan would be advanced technological background for development of such project and R&D limitations due to economical reasons. That's why I've proposed it to be a 'Joint Venture' with a friendly country like with Turkey similar to (Anka UCAV Program) or China's (CH-5 or Wing-Loong1-2 Program). So that advanced tech can be incorporated and gradually absorbed within our future individual Drones ventures also and R&D limitations for Pakistan won't be an issue in this case.
* The need to have Satellite guidance for which Pakistan can take China's assistance and later on SUPARCO needs to step in to make Pakistan self-reliant.

Your replies would be highly appreciated.
PS I'm just an aviation enthusiast and don't belong to this field and it's my first thread although I've been following this forum from a long time.

 

[war&peace]

Pakistan has already been offered to join the CH5 UCAV with China.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Go For China

 

[Goenitz]

There was a recent thread hacking UAVs, system developed in UK. what are CMs?
Unless we have our own satellites (navigation one ? ) we are operation limited.
anyway I recently watched a doc of Op Orchard. Isreal uses CMs and as they knew Russian codes of SAMs batteries so they kept feeding wrong info to Syrian radars. We may assume US had provided them taht too..
So the threat is due to IN-IS cooperation we can be vulnerable too as our systems are mainly of US origin with some fench and some we have developed ourselves.

Anti-Drone Defense System That Can Fight Micro-UAVs Revealed in London

 

[Paksanity]

Turkey is best option. They have access to modern NATO technology.

 

[Tipu7]

Hi

You must include option
"JV with China+Turkey"

Pakistan is lucky in sense that it has access to NATO based and non NATO based advance tech via Turkey and China respectively.

Field of robotics is New in combat and current UAVs are at stage at which fighter air crafts were during WW2. Call them in zero Generation.

As tech will advance e more high fi systems will be integrated in unmanned systems this introducing the stages of Generations. Like 1st G, 2nd G etc. I personally believe that manned fighter air crafts will continue to exist but role of "man" will be very limited. In future fighter air crafts will be half Manned and half unmanned air crafts with completely different weapons systems, avionics, controls and power plants.

Need of hour is that, if we have stepped in this field then we must move forward on our own as well as with the help of our friends. Instead of following we must lead a separate dimention, must introduce new ways to surprise your enemy.
For example we usually talk about UAVs, but never discuss UGV & UNV. They have their own applications. UGV can be used to provide logistics or even fire support and will be very effective in Nuclear and biological operations as they are immune to chemicals and radiations.

Israel has developed UNV PROTECTOR and UGV GUARDIAN and they have very wide applications.

UNV PROTECTOR

UGV GUARDIAN

Pakistan can also start work in developing such rObotic stuff which will shape our future and will provide us much needs self reliance.

On top of all that, we need our own military satellites, we cannot relay on Chinese and Turkish satellites for our UAV programs.

 

[Zarvan]

I wanted to ask that why doesn't Pakistan start some Joint Venture in the development of any advanced UCAV MALE or HALE programs. It would help Pakistan a lot in the long run. I want this to be realistic and rational. Such a project could act as a great strategic advantage in the long run due to the following reasons:

Reasons:
* Pakistan already have now formed the basic knowledge and Tech for developing and manufacturing UAVs of decent design. (Falco, Shahpar, Burraq etc)
* In this era of Artificial Intelligence, the world is leading towards automation. (Beyond 5th) Future generation fighters will be unmanned most likely as R&D already going on for such projects.
* UCAV Programs will be relatively cheaper to operate than manned fighter projects plus it would resolve many other factors like ( Loss of human life, Fighter training cost etc)
* Pakistan can never attain parity against India in fielding the number of fighter aircrafts due to geographical and economical limitations but fielding large number of UCAVs is feasible as well as possible .
* IMO Pakistan is more technologically advanced in Drone Tech as compared to its rival at current stage and deployment of UAVs and UCAVs in WOT have also provided vast real-time experience in operating them.
* Therefore, it is the need of the hour that Pakistan instead of being reactive should rather become proactive in this field to take this edge and utilize it as its advantage in co-development of UCAVs .

Force Multiplier:
* Imagine our UCAVs backed up by our fighter jets fielded against the enemy Fighters. They could act as decoys, the adversary would have to spend relatively greater resources on handling the UCAVs and even if they're brought down, the impact of losing a UCAV against losing an Aircraft would be very low.
* Integration of the UCAVs with the Ground stations and guidance by the AWACS and (future possible) modern fighter aircrafts like J-31 or Su-35 will also be a plus point.

Limitations:
* As I don't want to sound like starting another wish list. I want the discussion to be kept realistic and logical.
The main limitation for Pakistan would be advanced technological background for development of such project and R&D limitations due to economical reasons. That's why I've proposed it to be a 'Joint Venture' with a friendly country like with Turkey similar to (Anka UCAV Program) or China's (CH-5 or Wing-Loong1-2 Program). So that advanced tech can be incorporated and gradually absorbed within our future individual Drones ventures also and R&D limitations for Pakistan won't be an issue in this case.
* The need to have Satellite guidance for which Pakistan can take China's assistance and later on SUPARCO needs to step in to make Pakistan self-reliant.

Your replies would be highly appreciated.
PS I'm just an aviation enthusiast and don't belong to this field and it's my first thread although I've been following this forum from a long time.

For me buy CH-5 with full tech transfer and help Turkey develop their armed drone

 

[princefaisal]

JV with both Turkey and China will be beneficial for Pakistan. Investment should be on Anka +A and WJ-600 UCAV's.

CASIC's WJ 600 Stealth UCAV is shaped like a cruise missile, with stealthy characteristics including a recessed turbofan engine to reduce its radar cross section. While the WJ-600 could simulate stealthy cruise missiles like the U.S. LRSAM during Chinese training, its manufacturer states it can perform missions like combat surveillance, targeting and patrol. Interestingly, a less stealthy version of the WJ-600 was shown at Zhuhai 2010, armed with antitank missiles.

WJ-600 can carry opto-electronic, synthetic aperture radar (SAR) and electronic surveillance equipment for all weather reconnaissance. It has maximum speed of 720 kilometers per hour. It can loiter in an area of interest at speed of 108 kilometers per hour while flying at altitudes of 10,000 meters. WJ-600 UCAV has maximum range of 2,100 kilometers while carrying a payload of around 600 kg.

Hardpoints: 2

Armament Suite:
Support for precision-guided munitions as well as conventional drop ordnance. Reconnaissance-minded payload options as well.

Variants:
WJ-600 - Base Series Designation; fitted with turbojet engine.
WJ-600A - fitted with turbofan engine

 

[Imran Khan]

but pakistan never said it its you . its mean you want

 

[SP!TF!R3]

@Tipu7

We also have good UGVs..Pakistan should join India..

 

[cabatli_53]

Avarage Operation altitudes of strategic UAV's powered up by similar type of engines.

Predator-A altitude: 25000ft
Wing Loong altitude: 16500ft
Hermes-900 altitude: 30000ft
Super Heron altitude: 32000ft
Turkey's Heron called Gozcu-1 with 300T FLIR: ~28-29000ft
Anka-B: 30300ft (At latest trials, B variant climbed 30300ft altitude while SAR radar and FLIR onboard)

A special laser guided bomb for strategic class UAV's called Bozok is also developed. Weight of Bozok allow ANKA to carry multiple number of this bomb without sacrificing tha valuable altitude advantages of UAV too much. Bozok is offered to ally markets.

Aselsan unmanned naval protector for special naval bases called Levent

 

[That Guy]

UAVs are all fine and well, but Pakistan having a primarily a land army, and with the navy's role about to expand dramatically, perhaps UGVs and UNVs are what Pakistan should be looking into. UGVs and UNVs would be massive force multiplers.

I think any nation willing to cooperate with Pakistan should be considered, not just the usual suspects.

 

[s.k]

There was a recent thread hacking UAVs, system developed in UK. what are CMs?
Unless we have our own satellites (navigation one ? ) we are operation limited.
anyway I recently watched a doc of Op Orchard. Isreal uses CMs and as they knew Russian codes of SAMs batteries so they kept feeding wrong info to Syrian radars. We may assume US had provided them taht too..
So the threat is due to IN-IS cooperation we can be vulnerable too as our systems are mainly of US origin with some fench and some we have developed ourselves.

Anti-Drone Defense System That Can Fight Micro-UAVs Revealed in London

Baidu is available for our arms forces.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Specs please

 

[Lightning Soul]

Hi

You must include option
"JV with China+Turkey"

Pakistan is lucky in sense that it has access to NATO based and non NATO based advance tech via Turkey and China respectively.

Field of robotics is New in combat and current UAVs are at stage at which fighter air crafts were during WW2. Call them in zero Generation.

As tech will advance e more high fi systems will be integrated in unmanned systems this introducing the stages of Generations. Like 1st G, 2nd G etc. I personally believe that manned fighter air crafts will continue to exist but role of "man" will be very limited. In future fighter air crafts will be half Manned and half unmanned air crafts with completely different weapons systems, avionics, controls and power plants.

Need of hour is that, if we have stepped in this field then we must move forward on our own as well as with the help of our friends. Instead of following we must lead a separate dimention, must introduce new ways to surprise your enemy.
For example we usually talk about UAVs, but never discuss UGV & UNV. They have their own applications. UGV can be used to provide logistics or even fire support and will be very effective in Nuclear and biological operations as they are immune to chemicals and radiations.

Israel has developed UNV PROTECTOR and UGV GUARDIAN and they have very wide applications. View attachment 257710

UNV PROTECTOR

View attachment 257713
UGV GUARDIAN

Pakistan can also start work in developing such rObotic stuff which will shape our future and will provide us much needs self reliance.

On top of all that, we need our own military satellites, we cannot relay on Chinese and Turkish satellites for our UAV programs.

Hi

You must include option
"JV with China+Turkey"

Pakistan is lucky in sense that it has access to NATO based and non NATO based advance tech via Turkey and China respectively.

Field of robotics is New in combat and current UAVs are at stage at which fighter air crafts were during WW2. Call them in zero Generation.

As tech will advance e more high fi systems will be integrated in unmanned systems this introducing the stages of Generations. Like 1st G, 2nd G etc. I personally believe that manned fighter air crafts will continue to exist but role of "man" will be very limited. In future fighter air crafts will be half Manned and half unmanned air crafts with completely different weapons systems, avionics, controls and power plants.

Need of hour is that, if we have stepped in this field then we must move forward on our own as well as with the help of our friends. Instead of following we must lead a separate dimention, must introduce new ways to surprise your enemy.
For example we usually talk about UAVs, but never discuss UGV & UNV. They have their own applications. UGV can be used to provide logistics or even fire support and will be very effective in Nuclear and biological operations as they are immune to chemicals and radiations.

Israel has developed UNV PROTECTOR and UGV GUARDIAN and they have very wide applications. View attachment 257710

UNV PROTECTOR

View attachment 257713
UGV GUARDIAN

Pakistan can also start work in developing such rObotic stuff which will shape our future and will provide us much needs self reliance.

On top of all that, we need our own military satellites, we cannot relay on Chinese and Turkish satellites for our UAV programs.

Yes Pakistan could attain great advantages if the field of robotics and mechatronics are given much attention. But the reason I've specifically highlighted JV in UAV project is because we already have basic foundation regarding its development and know how. UAV can be effective in all modes of operation related to Air, Land or Sea. Another advantage is its much easier to deploy and have much more element of surprise and range as compared to UGV and UNV. UNV can have great impact for our navy. But this requires to spend in R&D to form the basis of these design which Pakistan can not do on its own. Due to certain technical limitation and major financial reasons. If advance UCAV programs are pursued then surely the technological gains will also be utilized in designing relevant other projects too like UNV & UGV.

Avarage Operation altitudes of strategic UAV's powered up by similar type of engines.

Predator-A altitude: 25000ft
Wing Loong altitude: 16500ft
Hermes-900 altitude: 30000ft
Super Heron altitude: 32000ft
Turkey's Heron called Gozcu-1 with 300T FLIR: ~28-29000ft
Anka-B: 30300ft (At latest trials, B variant climbed 30300ft altitude while SAR radar and FLIR onboard)

A special laser guided bomb for strategic class UAV's called Bozok is also developed. Weight of Bozok allow ANKA to carry multiple number of this bomb without sacrificing tha valuable altitude advantages of UAV too much. Bozok is offered to ally markets.

Aselsan unmanned naval protector for special naval bases called Levent

I do strongly believe that a JV with Turkey could be of great beneficial gains for both countries. But that should be on a new project (as Anka UCAV seems to be already in the finalized designing phase )in which Pakistan input can also be incorporated in, so that Pakistan could also acquire and absorb the technology except for just assembling it.

For me buy CH-5 with full tech transfer and help Turkey develop their armed drone

Honestly that could be a win-win situation. Though i do believe PAF is also involved in CH-5 project to certain extent but that just a speculation. The more quickly we realize the importance of modern UCAVs in our Doctrine, the better it will be for Pakistan in the long run. Private Companies like GIDs should do JV for development of such systems instead of only waiting & relying only on NESCOM or PAC to step in.