Pakistan Navy released pictures of Zarb anti-ship missile test firing

[!eon]

Congratulations

But can it hit moving ships ??

No phi jaan

The way this missile works is like..

First they prank call the moving ship.. "look traffic signal is red in front of you... Stop immediately!"
The ship stops
Then they fire the missile

 

[The Deterrent]

Yes, i think i might have mixed the 2 up. On another note we lack the capability for vertical launch on our surface vessels but do we also lack them on land based platforms? And does a vertical launch offers any advantage compared to this?

Vertical launch for what? Babur GLCM series launches vertically, Zarb horizontally-(ish).
VLS is better because the launcher doesn't needs to align itself (kinda NLOS), as in the case of non-VLS launchers.

Excerpt from 2014 article:


Pakistan ordered about 120 C-602 anti-ship cruise missiles from China back in 2009. The first batch of the missiles, enough to equip a company, were delivered in 2011. After personnel completed training on using the missiles, the Pakistani government said that the C-602s had already been deployed by frontline naval units.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/archive/print/637281-pakistan-navy-deploys-chinese-c-602-cruise-missile


So, the Naval Missile Regiment is divided into companies, each with a defined AOR along the coast.

Now questions arise, was the C-602 procured as a stop-gap? And will it be followed with a land-based Harbah?

Precisely. Harbah (Ship-launched AShM) and Babur-II (Ground-launched AShM version) will take some time to mature and enter production. IIRC, C-602s were purchased in 2009. So roughly speaking we had almost a decade in between acquisition of such capability, thats why C-602 was rushed in.

Actually I checked the mtcr website and there is no difference in the limits if you are a member or not. What's more mtcr is not legally binding even on its member states, it's an informal political agreement.
Anyhow, India increasing brahmos range is either a blatantly open violation or a workaround using a loophole.

You're right, and India is increasing the range on their end, not on the Russian end...so yeah its a workaround.

It seems that PN got an upgraded version of c602 that is longer range that is yj62 with 400+ km range with 450kg warhead otherwise there is no need to hide behind new name and produce is locally

Well as you said that MTCR is an informal agreement between member countries and china is not a member, the only tool available to the US etc. is geopolitical pressure & maneuvering. And given the absurd limits aswell as the above facts, adherence to MTCR is neither in line with China's current position in the world nor with its current approach in international affairs.

BTW, just thought of this, why would MTCR even apply to Zarb if its war head is below 500KG? MTCR (if it applies at all) is for missiles that can deliver 500KG warhead to 300+ KM range.

Locally developed missile don't fall under MTCR.

Hmm, this is getting confusing. Allow me to do the tidbits here, to clear it up:

1. Zarb Weapon System is an imported and modified Chinese C-602 shore-based anti-ship cruise missile. The nature and extent of the modification is evident in the press release, and can't be elaborated further. However ToT intended for local licensed production has not been made.

2. The difference in lengths between the old Chinese C-602 and Zarb is probably because a later block (with improvements in seeker/electronics/warhead) of C-602s was imported by Pakistan. Pakistan has not modified the air-frame of the system. However the range of Zarb, being essentially the imported (and therefore range-restricted) C-602, is and will remain less than 300km.

3. Technology transfer of sensitive nature between Pakistan & China, pertaining to long-range (>300km) weapons system, no longer exists. Since the AQK fiasco, the Chinese government is in a mutual understanding with the US and EU to not allow sales of such weapon systems or their components to Pakistan. The MTCR regulations (specifically of >500kg payload & >300km range) act as guidelines in this regard. However Pakistan continues to find loopholes and workarounds, in other areas.

4. Zarb (C-602) and Harbah (Ship-launched Babur-II) are totally different from each other in terms of origins, and do not share any components.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

No phi jaan

The way this missile works is like..

First they prank call the moving ship.. "look traffic signal is red in front of you... Stop immediately!"
The ship stops
Then they fire the missile

Lol

Cool thanks for sharing this

 

[syed_yusuf]

Vertical launch for what? Babur GLCM series launches vertically, Zarb horizontally-(ish).
VLS is better because the launcher doesn't needs to align itself (kinda NLOS), as in the case of non-VLS launchers.


Precisely. Harbah (Ship-launched AShM) and Babur-II (Ground-launched AShM version) will take some time to mature and enter production. IIRC, C-602s were purchased in 2009. So roughly speaking we had almost a decade in between acquisition of such capability, thats why C-602 was rushed in.


You're right, and India is increasing the range on their end, not on the Russian end...so yeah its a workaround.




Hmm, this is getting confusing. Allow me to do the tidbits here, to clear it up:

1. Zarb Weapon System is an imported and modified Chinese C-602 shore-based anti-ship cruise missile. The nature and extent of the modification is evident in the press release, and can't be elaborated further. However ToT intended for local licensed production has not been made.

2. The difference in lengths between the old Chinese C-602 and Zarb is probably because a later block (with improvements in seeker/electronics/warhead) of C-602s was imported by Pakistan. Pakistan has not modified the air-frame of the system. However the range of Zarb, being essentially the imported (and therefore range-restricted) C-602, is and will remain less than 300km.

3. Technology transfer of sensitive nature between Pakistan & China, pertaining to long-range (>300km) weapons system, no longer exists. Since the AQK fiasco, the Chinese government is in a mutual understanding with the US and EU to not allow sales of such weapon systems or their components to Pakistan. The MTCR regulations (specifically of >500kg payload & >300km range) act as guidelines in this regard. However Pakistan continues to find loopholes and workarounds, in other areas.

4. Zarb (C-602) and Harbah (Ship-launched Babur-II) are totally different from each other in terms of origins, and do not share any components.

Does this mean that harba has a very similar range as to that of babur 2

Since babur is both antiship and land attack capable , Pakistan navy zerb is it self obsolete by Pakistan navy new harba and babur

Does it mean that Zarb is an upgraded n version of c602 with a better seaker . It is not a new missile but more like an electronic mlu of c602

 

[iby32]

MashAllah. Let's hit Modi's 56-inch chest.

No need to waste a missile for a ranting rat

Why will India launch cruise missiles at Paistan from submarine when Pakistan is just across the border?


Unless Pakistan can make the seeker, Zarb can't be made in house. The babur can be used in place of the motor of Zarb but the seeker has to be imported

Sir dear Indian he's talking about ohio class sub of US navy not Indian navy

 

[Basel]

Vertical launch for what? Babur GLCM series launches vertically, Zarb horizontally-(ish).
VLS is better because the launcher doesn't needs to align itself (kinda NLOS), as in the case of non-VLS launchers.


Precisely. Harbah (Ship-launched AShM) and Babur-II (Ground-launched AShM version) will take some time to mature and enter production. IIRC, C-602s were purchased in 2009. So roughly speaking we had almost a decade in between acquisition of such capability, thats why C-602 was rushed in.


You're right, and India is increasing the range on their end, not on the Russian end...so yeah its a workaround.




Hmm, this is getting confusing. Allow me to do the tidbits here, to clear it up:

1. Zarb Weapon System is an imported and modified Chinese C-602 shore-based anti-ship cruise missile. The nature and extent of the modification is evident in the press release, and can't be elaborated further. However ToT intended for local licensed production has not been made.

2. The difference in lengths between the old Chinese C-602 and Zarb is probably because a later block (with improvements in seeker/electronics/warhead) of C-602s was imported by Pakistan. Pakistan has not modified the air-frame of the system. However the range of Zarb, being essentially the imported (and therefore range-restricted) C-602, is and will remain less than 300km.

3. Technology transfer of sensitive nature between Pakistan & China, pertaining to long-range (>300km) weapons system, no longer exists. Since the AQK fiasco, the Chinese government is in a mutual understanding with the US and EU to not allow sales of such weapon systems or their components to Pakistan. The MTCR regulations (specifically of >500kg payload & >300km range) act as guidelines in this regard. However Pakistan continues to find loopholes and workarounds, in other areas.

4. Zarb (C-602) and Harbah (Ship-launched Babur-II) are totally different from each other in terms of origins, and do not share any components.

You just don't know how things work in Pakistan if you believe what you have posted, if Pakistan wanted to have MTCR compliant missile then it will be announced that missile is being purchased with ToT as PN already have C-602s 280km range 120approx. When Pakistan announced that it has developed it's own weapon system and it is exact copy of a Chinese one than usually it means that a way around MTCR has been created to get longer range missile, also you can expect some upgrade by Pakistan in it too.

 

[ashok321]

Pakistan Navy releases images of Zarb coastal defence system

The Pakistan Navy (PN) has released one of the first images of its Zarb land-based anti-ship cruise missile (ASCM) system (also known as the Zarb Weapon System) being test-launched.

In the April issue of its Navy News magazine, the PN published a photograph of the Zarb ASCM being fired from an 8×8 transport-erector-launcher (TEL) vehicle at the Jinnah Naval Base in Ormara, Balochistan Province, as part of the recently conducted naval exercise ‘Sealion III’.

The missile, which was fired by the PN’s Naval Missile Regiment under the Naval Strategic Force Command, successfully hit its intended target, said the publication without providing further details about the test or the system.

Other than the colour scheme, the missile shown in the images appears to be a Chinese C-602, which is the export variant of the domestic YJ-62. The C-602 is a medium-range anti-ship/land-attack missile, which has a stated maximum range of 280 km and is armed with a 300 kg high-explosive semi-armour-piercing (SAP) warhead.

The TEL vehicle used to fire the Zarb ASCM features three container launch units (CLUs) and is also almost identical to that used by the YJ-62 mobile coastal defence system operated by China’s People’s Liberation Army.

The TEL vehicle has a main front cab, a separate rear command cab, a power-generation system, and an elevating launch platform holding the three CLUs.

Although arranged differently and of a different coloration, the CLUs also appear to be exactly the same as those used by the Chinese Navy’s Luyang II (Type 052C)-class destroyers.

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Janes.com has more juice on this.

 

[The Deterrent]

Does this mean that harba has a very similar range as to that of babur 2

No, Harbah is shorter in length. A safe estimate would be 450km (same as Babur-III).

Since babur is both antiship and land attack capable , Pakistan navy zerb is it self obsolete by Pakistan navy new harba and babur

No, not yet. Babur-II (now IB) and Harbah are indigenous(-ish), and will take time to mature as anti-ship weapons. Till then, Zarb/C-602 serve as stop-gap.

Does it mean that Zarb is an upgraded n version of c602 with a better seaker . It is not a new missile but more like an electronic mlu of c602

Zarb itself can't be termed as upgraded C-602 (with respect to avionics/range). What I meant was that the version of C-602 which Pakistan imported (and later modified to Zarb) was already an upgrade to the white-painted C-602 often pictured. This can be confirmed by matching the Pakistani Zarb to the Chinese YJ-68's training round, they are exactly the same in appearance.

You just don't know how things work in Pakistan if you believe what you have posted, if Pakistan wanted to have MTCR compliant missile then it will be announced that missile is being purchased with ToT as PN already have C-602s 280km range 120approx. When Pakistan announced that it has developed it's own weapon system and it is exact copy of a Chinese one than usually it means that a way around MTCR has been created to get longer range missile, also you can expect some upgrade by Pakistan in it too.

I know exactly how things in Pakistan work
I suggest that you read PN's publication again, to understand why Pakistan changed the designation of C-602 to Zarb. It has nothing to do with ToT, range extension or an upgrade (so to say). They didn't even change the paint scheme of the training round.

 

[Basel]

No, Harbah is shorter in length. A safe estimate would be 450km (same as Babur-III).


No, not yet. Babur-II (now IB) and Harbah are indigenous(-ish), and will take time to mature as anti-ship weapons. Till then, Zarb/C-602 serve as stop-gap.


Zarb itself can't be termed as upgraded C-602 (with respect to avionics/range). What I meant was that the version of C-602 which Pakistan imported (and later modified to Zarb) was already an upgrade to the white-painted C-602 often pictured. This can be confirmed by matching the Pakistani Zarb to the Chinese YJ-68's training round, they are exactly the same in appearance.



I know exactly how things in Pakistan work
I suggest that you read PN's publication again, to understand why Pakistan changed the designation of C-602 to Zarb. It has nothing to do with ToT, range extension or an upgrade (so to say). They didn't even change the paint scheme of the training round.

I know about C-602s since 2014 when first batch purchase was under process.

 

[The Deterrent]

I know about C-602s since 2014 when first batch purchase was under process.

Congrats then I guess?

 

[Basel]

Congrats then I guess?

I asked about it with F-22P crew and they say F-22P will not have them till needed but smaller new ships may have those along with coastal defense units and they wanted full range system not downgraded one.

 

[The Deterrent]

I asked about it with F-22P crew and they say F-22P will not have them till needed but smaller new ships may have those along with coastal defense units and they wanted full range system not downgraded one.

Should we go into the details of the uninformed uniformed peeps?
Keeping the first two expert (supposedly professional) opinions aside, it doesn't matters what the end-user wants, unless there is a way to get it.

 

[Basel]

Should we go into the details of the uninformed uniformed peeps?
Keeping the first two expert (supposedly professional) opinions aside, it doesn't matters what the end-user wants, unless there is a way to get it.

I know how Pakistan and China relationship work, have you forgotten how they helped to develop BMs?

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

Since babur is both antiship and land attack capable , Pakistan navy zerb is it self obsolete by Pakistan navy new harba and babur

Babur does not have seeker. So, it can't be anti-ship missile

Does it mean that Zarb is an upgraded n version of c602 with a better seaker . It is not a new missile but more like an electronic mlu of c602

Pakistan does not have seeker and hence can't upgrade the seeker. China has given only C602 and no change in seeker

I know exactly how things in Pakistan work
I suggest that you read PN's publication again, to understand why Pakistan changed the designation of C-602 to Zarb. It has nothing to do with ToT, range extension or an upgrade (so to say). They didn't even change the paint scheme of the training round.

Here is a news article about purchase of C602:
https://www.thenews.com.pk/archive/print/637281-pakistan-navy-deploys-chinese-c-602-cruise-missile

CHina even supplied the C802 missile to Iran which in turn went to Hezbollah who fired it on Israeli ship - Hanit.

 

[The Deterrent]

I know how Pakistan and China relationship work, have you forgotten how they helped to develop BMs?

Oh, you do? Do you see any DF-16 in a Shaheen-disguise in Pakistani service? Because I don't.

Read it again:

3. Technology transfer of sensitive nature between Pakistan & China, pertaining to long-range (>300km) weapons system, no longer exists. Since the AQK fiasco, the Chinese government is in a mutual understanding with the US and EU to not allow sales of such weapon systems or their components to Pakistan. The MTCR regulations (specifically of >500kg payload & >300km range) act as guidelines in this regard. However Pakistan continues to find loopholes and workarounds, in other areas.

Babur does not have seeker. So, it can't be anti-ship missile


Pakistan does not have seeker and hence can't upgrade the seeker. China has given only C602 and no change in seeker

The denial is so cute.