Pakistan Navy P-3C Orion Thread

[S.U.R.B.]

In February 2004, the Boeing SLAM-ER standoff land attack missile completed integration on the US Navy P-3C Orion.

P-3C Orion - Maritime Patrol and Anti-Submarine Warfare - Naval Technology

Question arises has PN got this upgrade?( i guess not.)

If it had been done Raad could have been a nice candidate to replace it.While we were waiting for the facilities to have Babar's naval version.

(I had to intervene when i saw two respected persons having a heated exhange of words.)

 

[Penguin]

And the one where the U.S. leased a Gotland class AIP sub for testing which resulted in it sinking a Nimitz class carrier in a exercise was also carelessness ? There is currently very little countermeasures against AIP subs.

More funds ? you can't get more expensive then a 5,000 man super carrier running on nuclear reactors. Plus even if you figure out how to counter AIP subs you still have to figure out how to counter those modified DF-21s china has.

An aip sub is not more or less detectable than its non-aip conventional counterpart. AIP has no effect on detectability, it only affects underwater endurance.

USN trains with Nato SSKs regularly. However, if you plan to do more littoral warfare scenarios, then you are more likely to run into conventional SS (i.e. SSKs) and it becomes more important to train more routinely against these boats. It may become more cost effective to lease such a boat from an ally and have it available all the time, rather than occasionally during a NATO excercise.

 

[Penguin]

I found this a rather astute observation re the DF-21D ASBM:

This weapon system has more than one target. First and foremost, it’s main target isn’t a US Carrier at sea, or anywhere else. It’s main target is the US Economy. The Chinese have taken a few pages from the playbook these United States used to take down the Soviet Union. They are building and displaying all sorts of interesting weapons systems because they know it will cost a lot of money and resources to develop a counter-measure to each of them. Why is this important? Because China holds a significant part of US Debt. China intends to replace these United States as the primary political force in Asia and to take dominance over the Pacific Ocean. By further weakening the US Economy, it makes China’s rise to prominance that much easier. Why go to actual war when you can bankrupt your enemy into submission?

As for a response:

A simple solution, however, would be to change our nuclear response policy in regards to the DF-21D and other such systems. The problem with an Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile is that it is indistinguishable from any other ICBM. It has virtually identical signatures from launch through impact. In that regard, it is impossible to know whether the warhead(s) onboard are nuclear or conventional. Even if the Chinese were to sign a treaty that these missiles would ONLY be armed with conventional warheads, we could never be certain that they were, and even then, whether it was an actual DF-21 or some other ICBM being launched.

Thus, this nation should, at once, make it known that ANY Ballistic Missile launched against ANY United States vessel, station, territory or any other possession, will be judged to be a nuclear attack and responded to in a similar manner at the time and place of our choosing.

The Chinese DF-21D ASBM: Much Ado About Nothing AW1 Tim's Blog

 

[Zulfiqar]

If the first OHP comes out of refurb without CIWS, then it is likely this will be transferred from a Type 21 when it retires (3 of them are equipped with the R2D2)

No need for that, PN has bought additional phalanx CIWS ( 6 in total plus upgrading the older ones that PN has). Here is a DSCA notification.

http://www.dsca.osd.mil/pressreleases/36-b/2004/Pakistan_05-05.pdf

 

[Arsalan]

In February 2004, the Boeing SLAM-ER standoff land attack missile completed integration on the US Navy P-3C Orion.

P-3C Orion - Maritime Patrol and Anti-Submarine Warfare - Naval Technology

Question arises has PN got this upgrade?( i guess not.)

If it had been done Raad could have been a nice candidate to replace it.While we were waiting for the facilities to have Babar's naval version.

(I had to intervene when i saw two respected persons having a heated exhange of words.)

no report about it and i dont think PN will/can be going for this system!

 

[Penguin]

No need for that, PN has bought additional phalanx CIWS ( 6 in total plus upgrading the older ones that PN has). Here is a DSCA notification.

http://www.dsca.osd.mil/pressreleases/36-b/2004/Pakistan_05-05.pdf

Good. That should end any discussion on the presence/absence of CIWS on the first six OHP.

 

[Penguin]

In February 2004, the Boeing SLAM-ER standoff land attack missile completed integration on the US Navy P-3C Orion.

P-3C Orion - Maritime Patrol and Anti-Submarine Warfare - Naval Technology

Question arises has PN got this upgrade?( i guess not.)

If it had been done Raad could have been a nice candidate to replace it.While we were waiting for the facilities to have Babar's naval version.

(I had to intervene when i saw two respected persons having a heated exhange of words.)

P-3C has been integrated with SLAM since the 1990s. Some 14 were fired by Orions during NATO ops agains Yugoslavia. Can't imagine a lot needs to be changed for the Orion to also work with SLAM-ER. See page 172 here

 

[Arsalan]

P-3C has been integrated with SLAM since the 1990s. Some 14 were fired by Orions during NATO ops agains Yugoslavia. Can't imagine a lot needs to be changed for the Orion to also work with SLAM-ER. See page 172 here

@SURB
i dont think he means that they are operational with ON, rather they had been integrated with P-3C platfomr in use with some other countrie that Penguin is pointing too.

regards!

 

[tarrar]

What i believe is for Pakistan not to rely on US any more we can buy and make many things with China. The Chinese are developing at a very fast rate in both civil and defense so we should be with them no more US and we have other countries like Azerbaijan and Ukraine. Pakistan should try to strengthen its Russia to improve the relationship but unfortunately the current leadership have filed completely in doing so. Gen. Musharraf wanted to give Russia access to the hot waters through Gawadar they(Russians) were interested but after he left no one there to complete the task this stupid Govt. as well as opposition are busy in one and one thing only corruption and finding ways to get the seat. We need to strengthen ties with our neighbor they are near us. We don't have to trust US and Europe any more they already see us a terrorist state and they are trying to make Pakistan an unstable state. So please no more US and Europe. Pakistan Zindabad Pakistan Paindabad

 

[Penguin]

@SURB
i dont think he means that they are operational with ON, rather they had been integrated with P-3C platfomr in use with some other countrie that Penguin is pointing too.

regards!

That, plus SLAM is the precursor (so they are not starting from scratch) to SLAM-ER (which may require additional integration work)

 

[Arsalan]

What i believe is for Pakistan not to rely on US any more we can buy and make many things with China. The Chinese are developing at a very fast rate in both civil and defense so we should be with them no more US and we have other countries like Azerbaijan and Ukraine. Pakistan should try to strengthen its Russia to improve the relationship but unfortunately the current leadership have filed completely in doing so. Gen. Musharraf wanted to give Russia access to the hot waters through Gawadar they(Russians) were interested but after he left no one there to complete the task this stupid Govt. as well as opposition are busy in one and one thing only corruption and finding ways to get the seat. We need to strengthen ties with our neighbor they are near us. We don't have to trust US and Europe any more they already see us a terrorist state and they are trying to make Pakistan an unstable state. So please no more US and Europe. Pakistan Zindabad Pakistan Paindabad

that seems to be the idea of military think tanks aswell..
if you notice the procurement of military hardware from US in past few years you will clearly see that most of them were either paid by US funds or were offered at a bargain price, Pakistan is no more relaying on US for the front line, top notch military hardware.
F-16 block 52 are the only exception and in this case too, FC-20 stands by as a back up plan and PAF wont be solely relying on US for there front line fighter air plae.
what else we are getting from US are the OHP clasee frigates commming for almost free and thus serve in a good supporting role, same is true for Cobra gunships and bell as they are all free and PA is showing keen intrest in T-129 and WZ-10 to make them the real work horse.

i agree that pakistan must try to minimize reliance on US as they have proved time and time again to be a very unreliable supplier. but i guess it is good as far as the goodies are commming for free or at a low price.
we can still save money to invest in other projects while keeping the US wquipment as support good as there in no doubt that they are of good quality!

i hope i have made my point of view clear..

regards!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

oh stop it now,
we have discussed this chapter in the relavant thread, there was not a single good point to prove the F-22p a peice of junk.
you always talk about it as if it is a finshing boat which it is not, it is the most modren ship in servise with PN and is bound to be same even after the OHP!
we mus not discuss it here but if you have a real point supporting that it is of no good i will again invite you and other intrested members to the relavant thread where we can sortit out once more!
http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/4779-f-22p-news-discussions.html

regards!

I think you need to take a look at my and Penguin's tones of post on naval section. F-22P hardly stands any chance against Technical Superior Indian naval surface fleet. I will be happy to inform you on this subject if you have any questions.

 

[Jigs]

I think you need to take a look at my and Penguin's tones of post on naval section. F-22P hardly stands any chance against Technical Superior Indian naval surface fleet. I will be happy to inform you on this subject if you have any questions.

Neither does the OHPs though.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Neither does the OHPs though.

Remember i am still talking about an upgraded OHP not USN one with mk13 and associated systems removed. And FFG with SM2 block 3, Harpoon, RUM-139, long range SPS-49 air search radar, ASW commonality with Burke class destroyer and Ticonderoga class cruiser is a much more potent against IN then F-22p.

 

[Jigs]

Remember i am still talking about an upgraded OHP not USN one with mk13 and associated systems removed. And FFG with SM2 block 3, Harpoon, RUM-139, long range SPS-49 air search radar, ASW commonality with Burke class destroyer and Ticonderoga class cruiser is a much more potent against IN then F-22p.

Your assuming they are going to be upgraded to something like that Adelaide class. At which point obviously it would be far more advanced. That brings up the question have you even remotely heard of something like that happening ? This ship is still missing its original weapons to begin with. Who is going to pay for all this ?