Pakistan Navy interested in J-11Bs

[Vibs]

A naval requirement is normally quite different than that of an Airforce, so it makes sense for a navy to want a seperate air wing. But given Pakistan's small coastline, wouldn't the PAF force be enough to secure it with it's air superiority fighters?? The same amount could be used to ramp up pure Naval strength.

 

[DARKY]

 

[DARKY]

A naval requirement is normally quite different than that of an Airforce, so it makes sense for a navy to want a seperate air wing. But given Pakistan's small coastline, wouldn't the PAF force be enough to secure it with it's air superiority fighters?? The same amount could be used to ramp up pure Naval strength.

Actually the level of protection offered by a Naval air wing is similar if not more than that of air force does in case of army................without proper air support Destroyers and frigates are sitting ducks even submarines would also have problems if AIP is not present.

 

[Vibs]

Actually the level of protection offered by a Naval air wing is similar if not more than that of air force does in case of army................without proper air support Destroyers and frigates are sitting ducks even submarines would also have problems if AIP is not present.

I agree with that. But then when you consider where the PN bases are, they have air bases owned by PAF nearby. They are most likely going to base their fighters in the same place as the PAF. What advantage does it give the navy? It's not like they will be carrier based to engage in contact away from the home base in the main land. Technically both air wings would be defending the same airspace.

 

[Dazzler]

I never claimed the RCS of JF-17 rather I placed it somewhere between 5-7m2 which usually is the RCS of such smaller planes when armed with external loads.



Wish they did....lOl



Look NO WEAPON IS FORMIDABLE afterall humans have made them Yes you JF-17 might score some kills but that would be rare.



The basic rule of ECM superiority is bigger and powerful bird win hands down as it supports more Electronics and cooling systems for them and provide adequate power required..........yes ALP-131 is a good self defense jammer but sorry to say BARS have noise level of about 3db which is less than that of Ibris E and equal to AN/APG series of AESA radars it could work on earlier NIIP variants but would have trouble catching up with such low noise level(in case of BARS) and frequency hopping agility of BARS(I am not saying its useless)...........That Chinese jammer is not worth mentioning and I expect you to understand why.

Why don't you cheer up afterall you are getting flankers I wish your Govt. had enough money to buy Su35BMs they are damn good birds.

It is getting silly to even argue with you now, just a word of advise, go and read how complex jamming mechanism actually works, it has multiple things going on simultaneously at various frequencies where the radar noise is just one aspect. For your information, when i said MULTIPLE JAMMING, it covers frequency hopping to a great extent as it is able to switch at various frequencies most commonly used worldwide by fighter aircrafts. For more info, read the success story of ALQ-131 ECM and just why it is being used by more than 35 airforces having a vast variety of fighter aircrafts. KG-300G is a new beast in town and pretty much an unknown equipment to Indians and the world but it has shown great performance so far in tests and trials by PAF. Jamming BARS should be not a big thing afterall since we have plenty of EW aircraft in inventory too which means additional jamming options so do not count too much on BARS and MKI and stay focused at reality boy. (Reality is the antonym of Bollywood which you folks seem to stroll always)

Russian aircraft are not feasible for PAF as of now but you never know what happens in far future! In near future though, PAF has her hands full negotiating with at least three fighter types, one of them is about to come, a AAR and 2 AWACS types, seems like a load of work. On naval side, we do have dedicated naval attack wing in the form of Mirage 5 PAs2, 3s, soon to be replaces with JFT naval variants, C-802/3 integration is a hint. J-11 talk is a bit pre mature but what is going on behind the door, who knows. In the mean time, read these informative sources on ALQ-131.....

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/201-300/walk202_AN-ALQ_1310_pod/walk202.htm

http://tech.military.com/equipment/view/88629/an-alq-131.html

 

[DARKY]

It is getting silly to even argue with you now, just a word of advise, go and read how complex jamming mechanism actually works, it has multiple things going on simultaneously at various frequencies where the radar noise is just one aspect. For your information, when i said MULTIPLE JAMMING, it covers frequency hopping to a great extent as it is able to switch at various frequencies most commonly used worldwide by fighter aircrafts. For more info, read the success story of ALQ-131 ECM and just why it is being used by more than 35 airforces having a vast variety of fighter aircrafts. KG-300G is a new beast in town and pretty much an unknown equipment to Indians and the world but it has shown great performance so far in tests and trials by PAF. Jamming BARS should be not a big thing afterall since we have plenty of EW aircraft in inventory too which means additional jamming options so do not count too much on BARS and MKI and stay focused at reality boy. (Reality is the antonym of Bollywood which you folks seem to stroll always)

Russian aircraft are not feasible for PAF as of now but you never know what happens in far future! In near future though, PAF has her hands full negotiating with at least three fighter types, one of them is about to come, a AAR and 2 AWACS types, seems like a load of work. On naval side, we do have dedicated naval attack wing in the form of Mirage 5 PAs2, 3s, soon to be replaces with JFT naval variants, C-802/3 integration is a hint. J-11 talk is a bit pre mature but what is going on behind the door, who knows. In the mean time, read these informative sources on ALQ-131.....

AN-ALQ 131

AN/ALQ-131

Jamming BARS is what was the prime concern of USAF since 2006 as it was designed keeping in mind the latest jamming technologies employed by NATO...........actuall even S-band and L-band active jammers were taken into consideration I can provide you with 100s of link about anti-jamming capabilities of BARS.........employing ALQ-131 with a F-16 radar won't be enough as I said BARS would detect it first and employ jamming on it first.......even if somehow you get to jam on BARS first which is highly unlikely it would simply fall short as the bigger radar would be more powerful..........and about EW planes which you are/would acquire let me inform you that AESA upgrade of MKIs are going on whould most likely feature the L-band AESA radars mounted on wings, pylons and rudders which would add another dimension to Electronic attack capabilities of MKIs.................what you must understand is that flankers are bigger planes with more powerful radars operating in more frequencies than smaller fighter radars like KLJ-7/the ones you operate on older or newer vipers if you were putting something like F-15 it was worth debating who would jam whom considering similar ECM capabilities.........even it were to be older flanker versions you had a point due to inferior electronics on them.
Thanks for the link anyway.

PS
Bollywood don't show technical stuff like radars or ECM only sing and dance...........I hate bollywood last bollywood movie which I saw was 1.5 years back.........lol

 

[Dazzler]

OH MANN! BARS was not even exposed by IAF and was shut down, go to google again.

On a siden ote, if ALQ-131 didnt work, we always have the formidable ALQ-211s

ITT Integrated Electronic Warfare Systems - EW Solutions

www.cenrex.com/dokumenty/ALQ-211.pdf

www.aviationweek.com/media/pdf/spec_04_elect_war_sys.pdf

www.ittdefenceaustralia.com/media/ALQ-211.pdf

 

[DARKY]

OH MANN! BARS was not even exposed by IAF and was shut down, go to google again.

On a siden ote, if ALQ-131 didnt work, we always have the formidable ALQ-211s

ITT Integrated Electronic Warfare Systems - EW Solutions

www.cenrex.com/dokumenty/ALQ-211.pdf

www.aviationweek.com/media/pdf/spec_04_elect_war_sys.pdf

www.ittdefenceaustralia.com/media/ALQ-211.pdf

Common buddy we are talking about large aperture high powered PESA radars and this jammer of yours performs on monopulse radar even KLJ-7 can stand against it ALQ-184/189(correct me on this) which F-15 carries would have been a better choice..........but that's a powerful jammer that would suck more power hence it would not be put on f-16.
IAF never exposed BARS as it was supposed to be and actually is the basis of later Russian radars like IBRIS-E PESA and N050 AESA.

 

[Dazzler]

without prolonging the debete, just a word of advise. buddy, in indo pak context, bigger does not mean better and the. 211 series of jammer is the best of the lot out there designed to counter all kinds of threats but it might struggle against is Aesa which mki does not have so you keep living in your mki fantasy....
peace

 

[alimobin memon]

ARE WE REALLY GETTING J11's IF NOT WHAT IS PURPOSE OF J11 DISCUSSION IN PAKISTANI FORUM!!!!

 

[Arsalan]

ARE WE REALLY GETTING J11's IF NOT WHAT IS PURPOSE OF J11 DISCUSSION IN PAKISTANI FORUM!!!!

we all will love to get it but this do not seems happening.
however, beng a potential purchase, this is being discussed.
however, as usual, the MKI have pounced in we are getting into antoher MKI IS THE BEST debate!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

They question is not if , but when

Because , since China owns 100% rights to the unique plane , we do not have any restrictions to purchase it in limited quantities of course of 40-50 planes.

But we are just debating , what would be the benefits of having such a plane in our inventories.

From a strategic point of view it would make sense for us to have 40-50 of these planes for duel purpose

I mean not long ago who would have predicted China would give us 50 JF17 thunders in 2-3 months time

Think about it in 1-2 years we will be flying almost 100 JF17 thunders a far technologically superior plane then F16 A/B we had with 100 % more capability


So J11 is just a matter of when the deal will close down ...

J11 would be ideal for Navy Usage - longer flights and more coverage to protect naval vessels in sea from suprise air operations from foes

If we had J11 we probbly could have dispatched 12 planes to sea to help our F22P frigate and sink the pirates and have enough fuel to come home in time for lunch

There are enough missiles on these planes to scare off some intruders and uninvited foes

 

[DARKY]

we all will love to get it but this do not seems happening.
however, beng a potential purchase, this is being discussed.
however, as usual, the MKI have pounced in we are getting into antoher MKI IS THE BEST debate!

MKI was the best 5 years back but with the coming of Su 35BM coupled with 117S supercursing turbofans and 3D TVC nozzles along with superior electronics i.e. IBRIS-E, SAP-14, SAP 518 etc.......longer range IRST and reduced RCS composite body resulting in high T/W ratio and far lesser drag longer range(4000+ km)..............is currently the best in the region.

I wonder if Venezuela can buy Su 35BM why can't Pakistan it would be one hell of a platform against Indian Su 30MKI........ resulting in the former winning most of the time.

 

[DARKY]

without prolonging the debete, just a word of advise. buddy, in indo pak context, bigger does not mean better and the. 211 series of jammer is the best of the lot out there designed to counter all kinds of threats but it might struggle against is Aesa which mki does not have so you keep living in your mki fantasy....
peace

You are trying to compare an ECM equipment used on choppers against PESA radars used on air superiority fighters..............all I can say is wow and any knowledgeable person would understand who is living in the fantasy world.
Thanks for your part of discussion.
Peace Indeed.

 

[Mani2020]

MKI was the best 5 years back but with the coming of Su 35BM coupled with 117S supercursing turbofans and 3D TVC nozzles along with superior electronics i.e. IBRIS-E, SAP-14, SAP 518 etc.......longer range IRST and reduced RCS composite body resulting in high T/W ratio and far lesser drag longer range(4000+ km)..............is currently the best in the region.

I wonder if Venezuela can buy Su 35BM why can't Pakistan it would be one hell of a platform against Indian Su 30MKI........ resulting in the former winning most of the time.

So that Russians can give every code and radar frequency to India and Su-35 BM's can be a sitting duck even worse than jf-17 by your imagination

On a serious note we don't have any close military relationship with Russia (n you are not a kid to not know that , i hope it was not an adding masala thing ) ,So PAF will never be willing to bank on Russia even if they do so by the virtue of some miracle ,still Russia will not be willing to supply something which is the best she posses as of today , n even if Russia agrees i dont think indians will let them to do say n we might see indian trying everything to stop this sale ,even if they have to go for SU-35BM's themselves to refrain the sales (n i think thats wat you want )

End of the story

Happy ending !!!