Pakistan Navy demands increase in budget

[Last Hope]

Wow, just 556mn USD? What is left for capital expenditure after salaries and day-day costs?

This is the salaries he is talking about.

 

[rockstar08]

no less than half of PAF

PAF 1.2billion USD for last year
PN just 556millions

really ?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

IN :
1. Granted that IN has numbers on its side, but blocking lanes to just Karachi is different from Karachi + Gwadar. It will have to extend itself further than last time it blocked a port.
2. China's interest in the port (commercial only, no military speculations here) makes a block further questionable for IN.

Point No.1-----IN has far more potent assets and strength than the last time it exercised a blockade.
Point No.2-----China's presence in a commercial port makes no difference to what the IN may plan to do in wartime.

 

[acetophenol]

Will I be wrong if I say PN is the most underequipped among the three forces of Pakistan?

 

[Ra'ad]

About time PN got some cash too.
Btw i think PN should invest in commercial activities too and use its skills to earn some cash...like a side-job.

I can think of a fisheries business. Most of the fish industry of pakistan is based on individual poor fishermen who use small local made boats which can't venture far off the coast. The fish processing is sub-standard and inadequate and so our fish doesn't get exported much especially to EU, US coz of ban imposed due to poor sanitary conditions and not meeting world standards in fish processing, though the ban was lifted recently.

The PN could set-up a world-class fishing company, meeting world standards in fish processing, install state-of-the-art fish processing facilities, modern fish port and dock, manufacture own modern fishing trawlers cheaply with Turkish/Chinese help and run the company professionally just like any multinational company would do. If they do not compromise on quality, which btw is very tempting for us pakistanis, they can be very competent in world market and achieve market penetration in US, EU, Asian countries. Our fishing industry has a potential of more than $2billion annually. The PN can tap this potential by enabling access to markets worldwide.

k

I think the PN can actually do this jointly with partners, and setup a company. They can seek help from 'Engro foods' for fish processing, and brand marketing. We have the potential in Pakistan.

In order to alleviate the concerns of local fishermen of killing competition and pushing them out of business/livelihood, the PN owned company could:

• employ the local fishermen and others involved in fishing industry;
• invest in them and train them, so they can become crew of modern trawlers, and later promote to captain of the boat;
• outsource some jobs to their villages like 'handmade nets' so that women can earn too.

If all/most of the fishermen come under PN fisheries umbrella, it could establish monopoly and develop Pakistan's fishing industry upstream too.

Apart from this the PN can have a ferry/transportation service to Dubai and Iran.
Also the PN can make a submarine (agosta90c 'c=civilian') with manyyyy windows and start an under water tourism service in Dubai for sheikhs lol..and make money. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Just kidding.

 

[SQ8]

Considering that the so called high security areas are already being used for Private weddings.. and Commissions on that being passed around.. why not?.. They are less Military leaders and more CEO/Seths of a oligarchy business.

 

[Contrarian]

About time PN got some cash too.
Btw i think PN should invest in commercial activities too and use its skills to earn some cash...like a side-job.

I can think of a fisheries business.

Is there fundamentally wrong with Pakistani brains? Or are words like 'logic' alien to you folks?

Half of you jump with joy that your just retired ISI Chief gets recruited to UAE's Intelligence services. You fail to see the problem there that almost every other nation barring Pakistan would see right away!

Now you lot want your military to continue to run or add frigging fishing/commercial businesses instead of making them stop their existing enterprises.
Do you folks know why exactly Militaries globally are forbidden to run their own enterprises? Or do you want that the kirana store be owned by Pak military as well to generate profits.
edit Didnt get your post initially oscar, got it now.

 

[That Guy]

About damn time, they've been shafted for far too long. PA and PAF always get the lions share, but PN has a massive role it can play, if only it were given the budget for it.

 

[That Guy]

Is there fundamentally wrong with Pakistani brains? Or are words like 'logic' alien to you folks?
This applies to you too @Oscar

Half of you jump with joy that your just retired ISI Chief gets recruited to UAE's Intelligence services. You fail to see the problem there that almost every other nation barring Pakistan would see right away!

Now you lot want your military to continue to run or add frigging fishing/commercial businesses instead of making them stop their existing enterprises.
Do you folks know why exactly Militaries globally are forbidden to run their own enterprises? Or do you want that the kirana store be owned by Pak military as well to generate profits.

First of all, careful who you insult. You may be an elite member, but you're still capable of getting a ban for insulting a nationality. Second, if he wants to join another intel agency, he's welcome to as long as no national secrets are given away, there is no law against his specific actions that I'm aware off. Finally, don't assume that because one guy says something that everyone who share's his nationality automatically agrees with him. I'm firmly against army run enterprises, simply because that's taking away business from the private sector that businesses desperately need to create more private sector jobs. NEVER throw around such insulting comments again, ever.

 

[PoKeMon]

Considering that the so called high security areas are already being used for Private weddings.. and Commissions on that being passed around.. why not?.. They are less Military leaders and more CEO/Seths of a oligarchy business.

That would mean shift of capital from public to army. You will have more to spend on armed forces but less for general budget. Bad idea. There is a reason why armies are not expected to do business.

 

[banvanaxl]

Considering that the so called high security areas are already being used for Private weddings.. and Commissions on that being passed around.. why not?.. They are less Military leaders and more CEO/Seths of a oligarchy business.

Come on mate. You don't really believe that now. Private weddings is one thing .. Hell my aunt got married in a military base (Fort William in Calcutta) but refocusing the PA/PAC/PN's streamlined approach to defense to a more pseudo-commercial agenda is definitely a non-starter.

The defense forces are already burdened enough. To expect of them to generate revenue via commercial/manufacturing ventures in an already competitive environment would be akin to hammering the final nail to their coffins .. just my 0.02$s.

 

[Contrarian]

First of all, careful who you insult. You may be an elite member, but you're still capable of getting a ban for insulting a nationality.

Obviously I know that. Thats forum 101. Does not mean it does not get ridiculous when Pakistani's jump up and down over what should be downright banned in Pakistan. Being politically nice does not mean you dont call stupid/spade when you see it.

Second, if he wants to join another intel agency, he's welcome to as long as no national secrets are given away, there is no law against his specific actions that I'm aware off.

Thats exactly the point man.
The head of your Intel agency is not a damned blue collar worker who can choose to work in any country/organization.

If he is getting employement after his retirement, it means a high probability of divided loyalties. Neither is he a mere infantry officer who will just command a battalion in other countries. That man probably knows more secrets about Pakistan save anyone but the Chief of PA. This is exactly why there are laws against even bureaucrats and officers joining private firms after retirement in other countries. And that is why Chiefs of Services and Intel Chiefs are forbidden to do so under any circumstances by the rest of the globe. To make sure they dont sell out the nation to anyone - even if they are friendly countries. They are damn well looked after just so they dont have to work and give out national secrets inadvertently or inadvertently.

God knows what half the folks are high on. I saw that half the other Pakistani's were jubilant in the thread which announced this rather than surprised, shocked and dismayed...as if this were some sort of achievement of the former head of ISI.

Finally, don't assume that because one guy says something that everyone who share's his nationality automatically agrees with him. I'm firmly against army run enterprises, simply because that's taking away business from the private sector that businesses desperately need to create more private sector jobs. NEVER throw around such insulting comments again, ever.

That is not the reason why Militaries are prohibited.
The real reason is that the Military must always be dependent on the Government to get its money. Its a major lever of control for the government. If the military starts running its own enterprises, and makes its own money, why would it be dependent on the Government of the Country.

If it is not dependent on the Government for its survival and perks/privileges, it has the luxury to not follow orders, be contemptuous or threaten the Govt of the Country. It dilutes the principle of Civilian Oversight and Authority.

The second reason is that it dilutes the absolute focus of the Military. Their job is to stay at the border and fight when ordered to, not sell cookies and cornflakes.

And you need to grow a thicker skin. I'll call stupid when I see it. Though I now see that @Oscar was sarcastic instead of supportive of the idea. I found it quite surprising initially though since I almost always find his posts worth reading and rather informative. Didnt get it was sarcasm.

 

[That Guy]

Obviously I know that. Thats forum 101. Does not mean it does not get ridiculous when Pakistani's jump up and down over what should be downright banned in Pakistan. Being politically nice does not mean you dont call stupid/spade when you see it.

Thats exactly the point man.
The head of your Intel agency is not a damned blue collar worker who can choose to work in any country/organization.

If he is getting employement after his retirement, it means a high probability of divided loyalties. Neither is he a mere infantry officer who will just command a battalion in other countries. That man probably knows more secrets about Pakistan save anyone but the Chief of PA. This is exactly why there are laws against even bureaucrats and officers joining private firms after retirement in other countries. And that is why Chiefs of Services and Intel Chiefs are forbidden to do so under any circumstances by the rest of the globe. To make sure they dont sell out the nation to anyone - even if they are friendly countries. They are damn well looked after just so they dont have to work and give out national secrets inadvertently or inadvertently.

God knows what half the folks are high on. I saw that half the other Pakistani's were jubilant in the thread which announced this rather than surprised, shocked and dismayed...as if this were some sort of achievement of the former head of ISI.


That is not the reason why Militaries are prohibited.
The real reason is that the Military must always be dependent on the Government to get its money. Its a major lever of control for the government. If the military starts running its own enterprises, and makes its own money, why would it be dependent on the Government of the Country.

If it is not dependent on the Government for its survival and perks/privileges, it has the luxury to not follow orders, be contemptuous or threaten the Govt of the Country. It dilutes the principle of Civilian Oversight and Authority.

I thought I wrote that in an edit. I really don't understand this new system PDF is using.

The second reason is that it dilutes the absolute focus of the Military. Their job is to stay at the border and fight when ordered to, not sell cookies and cornflakes.

And you need to grow a thicker skin. I'll call stupid when I see it. Though I now see that @Oscar was sarcastic instead of supportive of the idea. I found it quite surprising initially though since I almost always find his posts worth reading and rather informative. Didnt get it was sarcasm.

It's not about having a thicker skin, it's about acting like an idiot when you don't have to. Don't generalize, because you look like a damn idiot when you do. Even if @Oscar wasn't sarcastic, you have no damn right on this forum to insult him or anyone else, that's why the forum rules are there. Follow the damn rules next time.

 

[SQ8]

Come on mate. You don't really believe that now. Private weddings is one thing .. Hell my aunt got married in a military base (Fort William in Calcutta) but refocusing the PA/PAC/PN's streamlined approach to defense to a more pseudo-commercial agenda is definitely a non-starter.

The defense forces are already burdened enough. To expect of them to generate revenue via commercial/manufacturing ventures in an already competitive environment would be akin to hammering the final nail to their coffins .. just my 0.02$s.

But its already happening. The Army already does it in some form whilst calling it something else to take away the pseudo commercial arm.. what is stopping the Navy from doing the same?

 

[Ra'ad]

Hi, i'll skip to the points and cut the 'language', although @Contrarian uv blown it up out of proportion and out of context. You need to learn to hold back. I always do. I don't have the energy to engage in fiery exchange of posts or troll-wars...i just post my opinions and ideas, and present them as opinions not as facts. And also i don't over assert my points since i'm only a student, not some experienced veteran or person of authority. But anyway ur an indian and prob trolling here so you may not comment on how pak military should behave.

My reply is directed to Pakistanis who do have a better understanding of current situation in Pakistan. @Oscar @That Guy
In principle, i wholly agree that militaries should not seek to gain independence from civilian control, and for that matter establish their own sources of income.

But generalising is one thing, Pakistan isn't in an ideal state, and the way we managed to grow around the obstacles, many things in Pakistan do not follow global norms. If you treat this matter on case-to-case basis, Pakistan is a special case, an exception. Yes we are really poor, have corrupt leaders, an incompetent civilian body, thats probably why the military filled the vacuum. Plz note i'm not defending the military...just looking at this neutrally and logically. I'm a youngster, and i'm not responsible for Pakistan's woes. I inherited this. I observe that:

1. its the military doing the rescue work after every flood or other natural calamity;
2. its the army doing the repair work on barrages;
3. its the army doing maintenance and building of northern highways, and clearing landslides;
4. when a canal is being dug, its the army guys;
5. the HMC taxila, and other arms producing factories are managed by army;
6. the fauji cement, fertilizer and what not...either the army has over taken all roles or its the other way round...civilians have themselves left a vacuum to be filled.

My point is, with a positive perspective, it looks to me they always lent a helping hand where other civilian institutions were incapable or not yet mature enough.
Once again, im not advocating that the military diverge from its professional duties and become businessmen, but i guess its how our countrymen improvised in tough terrain Pakistan has tread till now.

I'm not 'jumping up and down' to see PN open a fisheries department. I find it the most capable, having appropriate assets, to help develop our fishing across the coast. But actually, i don't prefer to see PN doing this job, but instead our local entrepreneurs or foreign investors. But since our independence, we pakistani's still catch fish in those small wooden boats. I think everyone had their chance...if someone wanted to step-in and modernise our fishing they would already have done it. But no one did. If PN can do that, having its own shipyards, they should IMO. Or at least manufacture cheap modern trawlers for our local people. Why not use those shipyards. Why should they be left idle, while the PN has no money to manufacture ships for itself.

For my indian bro, we people of subcontinent are very similar in many ways. Our depts and bureaucracies are inefficient and corrupt. One positive thing that came with army managing depts concerned with itself is that our projects and plans get executed real quick and smooth while those in india get dragged on for decades...so much for civilian bureaucracy.

[Looking fwd to constructive talk. These are my views and mine only. Don't drag all Pakistanis into this]