Pakistan is America's front line ally in killing Afghan Muslims,Lt.Gen Shahid Aziz

[Stephen Cohen]

for the world to wonder at them

It is not about the World -- it is about our neighbors

 

[Joe Shearer]

It is not about the World -- it is about our neighbors

....including our neighbours.

Did you know that the Indian Army has recommended Pakistani soldiers and officers for gallantry awards around ten to twelve times (I kept count once upon a time, but have lost that list), but to my meagre knowledge, that has NEVER been reciprocated.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Did you know that the Indian Army has recommended Pakistani soldiers and officers for gallantry awards around ten to twelve times (I kept count once upon a time, but have lost that list), but to my meagre knowledge, that has NEVER been reciprocated.

We are DIFFERENT people ; that is why we separated in the First place

 

[Joe Shearer]

We are DIFFERENT people ; that is why we separated in the First place

No, I don't agree.

I think that up to field rank, the Pakistani and the Indian soldiers are very similar.

That is just about the Army. The Air Force is an admirable service, from top to bottom. But that is the sum total.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

No, I don't agree.

I think that up to field rank, the Pakistani and the Indian soldiers are very similar.

Let us agree to disagree

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

We are DIFFERENT people ; that is why we separated in the First place

That is a very important truth and fact that is not discussed or mentioned enough. We are both COMPLETELY different to one another.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Joe Shearer

Please read this Article

http://virsanghvi.com/Article-Details.aspx?key=1094

I am posting the relevant excerpts
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the uproar that followed the publication of Natwar Singh’s memoirs, one interesting chapter has been largely ignored.

This deals with Singh’s tenure as our ambassador to Pakistan. Before leaving for Islamabad in 1980, Singh writes, he called on Abdus Sattar, the then Pakistani ambassador to India. He asked Sattar, “I know what to say to our friends across the border. Tell me what I should not say.”


Singh says that he has never forgotten the reply he received. Sattar told him, “Never say that we are the same people. We are not. If we were, then why did we part company in 1947?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

@Joe Shearer

Please read this Article

http://virsanghvi.com/Article-Details.aspx?key=1094

I am posting the relevant excerpts
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the uproar that followed the publication of Natwar Singh’s memoirs, one interesting chapter has been largely ignored.

This deals with Singh’s tenure as our ambassador to Pakistan. Before leaving for Islamabad in 1980, Singh writes, he called on Abdus Sattar, the then Pakistani ambassador to India. He asked Sattar, “I know what to say to our friends across the border. Tell me what I should not say.”


Singh says that he has never forgotten the reply he received. Sattar told him, “Never say that we are the same people. We are not. If we were, then why did we part company in 1947?

And what Mr Sattar said was a 100% correct. An absolute truth and fact that no one can rationally deny. For some unknown reason many people try to unsuccessfully argue against this fact. Never understood that.

 

[Jaanbaz]

For Pakistanis to lay down their arms and stop minding other countries' business.

We are discussing internal matters of Pakistan, I don't care what goes around in India, I don't know why Indian people are so obsessed with Pakistan.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Yes, that's the general definition --- but you missed my point. I was simply saying that right/wrong is a function not only of international law but also one's personal belief / ethical system. If, in a democracy, the majority votes that it's okay to rape women, will you personally be okay with it? My point is simply that something "legal" doesn't have to be "right."

If you think it's acceptable to level a house with civilians because there's a terrorist inside, you are fully entitled to that view and I am not challenging your ethical system. I am just saying that mine is slightly different.

It is all a matter of circumstances and cost/benefit calculations.
If You have a terrorist which enters a house taking hostages, you try to protect the hostages.
You don't level the house.
If You have a well known terrorist leader inviting fellow terrorist leaders with families,
then certainly they are a valid target.
If there is just an ordinary taliban, i.e. not a leader, visiting his family,
and not shooting at You, then it is too drastic. Need to give them a chance to surrender.
You probably don't do a drone strike.
If it is 200 Taliban soldiers convened for a raid, then again a valid target.

 

[TMA]

Someone should also tell the ex general that Afghans themselves are America's foremost allies in killing Afghan Muslims; still what Pakistan did by allowing passage to NATO is SHAMEFUL.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer

Please read this Article

http://virsanghvi.com/Article-Details.aspx?key=1094

I am posting the relevant excerpts
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the uproar that followed the publication of Natwar Singh’s memoirs, one interesting chapter has been largely ignored.

This deals with Singh’s tenure as our ambassador to Pakistan. Before leaving for Islamabad in 1980, Singh writes, he called on Abdus Sattar, the then Pakistani ambassador to India. He asked Sattar, “I know what to say to our friends across the border. Tell me what I should not say.”


Singh says that he has never forgotten the reply he received. Sattar told him, “Never say that we are the same people. We are not. If we were, then why did we part company in 1947?

That was the wisest advice Singh could have got. Never to tell someone that he knows nothing about some subject or the other. Revealing that person's weakness to himself is not recommended, in case he wants to get close.

We are discussing internal matters of Pakistan, I don't care what goes around in India, I don't know why Indian people are so obsessed with Pakistan.

It is because Pakistan has made it a point to get involved in India. Try minding your own business for once, having failed to do it for 69 years, and see what peace and quiet there will be on your eastern borders. But you've forgotten how to mind your own business.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

That was the wisest advice Singh could have got. Never to tell someone that he knows nothing about some subject or the other. Revealing that person's weakness to himself is not recommended, in case he wants to get close.



It is because Pakistan has made it a point to get involved in India. Try minding your own business for once, having failed to do it for 69 years, and see what peace and quiet there will be on your eastern borders. But you've forgotten how to mind your own business.

And that was the case in 1980

Since then the Two countries have gone away on much different paths

We can say that we WERE similar till the sixties

But after that we have evolved into totally different countries and people

 

[BetterPakistan]

No, I don't regret spending 66 years of my life gaining a worthwhile reputation among people of all nationalities. I don't regret getting known to the seniors on this forum, for instance, for integrity of approach, and never allowing my nationality to determine the facts that I present. I don't regret being known to the communalists on both sides for my secularism. I don't regret for sharing information about 1962 with an extremely knowledgeable Chinese member, where the rest of the forum benefited from a frank and informative account of what happened on the eastern frontier in that year. I don't regret having displayed my insight into military history, into politics and into ethics and morality to these members, to members in other fora, to my business associates and to my students. I don't regret being consulted whenever people are in doubt, even on their own country's history, or on military history.

As for my cowardice, again the forum has enough senior members who would speak for me, if I needed them to.

Against a fribble, I don't need anyone. I am prolonging this for my own amusement and entertainment. And I will decide when to stop it.

Why you need others to defend you? Can't you do it on your own? Everytime you say, you are reputable enough that seniors will defend you? Are you trying to make me laugh?

You're seriously a halfwit. You are doing it for your entertainment, well i thought you are doing it to make a fool of yourself which you have done in 66 years of your life. In this short time, I have known you very well and I have told you I know how to manhandle you.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Why you need others to defend you? Can't you do it on your own? Everytime you say, you are reputable enough that seniors will defend you? Are you trying to make me laugh?

I need nobody to defend me. It gives me pleasure to point out that the possibility exists, and that it doesn't exist for you.

You're seriously a halfwit. You are doing it for your entertainment, well i thought you are doing it to make a fool of yourself which you have done in 66 years of your life. In this short time, I have known you very well and I have told you I know how to manhandle you.

I don't think you know anything. Smileys aside.