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Pakistan, Germany in Surplus Helo Talks

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Pakistan, Germany in Surplus Helo Talks

ISLAMABAD — Sources here have confirmed that Germany and Pakistan are negotiating for the transfer of 40 surplus German helicopters.

Reports that Germany was planning to export the helicopters were traced to the April 28 issue of the German news weekly, Der Speigel. It cited an April 24 letter from German Deputy Defence Minister Thomas Kossendey to the parliamentary defense committee saying such a deal was possible despite German law banning arms sales to crisis regions.

The helicopters in question are MBB Bo-105 light utility helicopters, which in German Army service have been used in the anti-tank role when equipped with six MBDA HOT anti-tank guided missiles.

The report stressed, however, that the helicopters will be transferred unarmed, and the brackets and mounts used for carrying weapons will be removed.

No details of the potential deal were forthcoming from the Pakistani military’s Inter Services Public Relations media branch when contacted by Defense News.

However, an informed source here connected with the deal said, “This request is being discussed. It has been requested by Pakistan and is currently in the vetting stage.”

The source also clarified the variant of the helicopter and its potential use in Pakistan.

“The specific type is the search-and-rescue version, which will have provision for a medical officer and a stretcher.”

Pakistan’s military is experiencing a well-reported helicopter shortage, but though the Bo-105 is a fast and agile small helicopter, analysts question the value of the potential deal.

Former Australian defense attaché to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley, is unimpressed by the potential deal.

“The MBB Bo-105 is an elderly helicopter and has been out of production for years, and I doubt that a fleet could be properly maintained unless there was a vast amount of spares provided, as there was, for example, with the Australian Mirages,” he said.

In 1990, Pakistan acquired 50 retired Australian Dassault Mirage-IIIO/OD fighters, plus jigs, fabrication material and a considerable amount of spares for a fraction of their value.

Though ostensibly purchased for spares, most were overhauled and returned to service by the Pakistan Air Force.

Nevertheless, Cloughley is still skeptical because unlike the Mirage-III, the Bo-105 is not currently in service with Pakistan.

“There is also the matter of training aircrew and technicians, which is always a considerable task when acquiring any new type of equipment,” he said.
Pakistan, Germany in Surplus Helo Talks | Defense News | defensenews.com
 
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Bo-105_P1A1_RIAT2006_002_800.jpg


BO-105CBS-5_12.JPG


bo105-pv294.jpg
 
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Why not buy from China ??? They can sell armed choppers without any hesitation.
 
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Pakistan, Germany in Surplus Helo Talks

ISLAMABAD — Sources here have confirmed that Germany and Pakistan are negotiating for the transfer of 40 surplus German helicopters.

Reports that Germany was planning to export the helicopters were traced to the April 28 issue of the German news weekly, Der Speigel. It cited an April 24 letter from German Deputy Defence Minister Thomas Kossendey to the parliamentary defense committee saying such a deal was possible despite German law banning arms sales to crisis regions.

The helicopters in question are MBB Bo-105 light utility helicopters, which in German Army service have been used in the anti-tank role when equipped with six MBDA HOT anti-tank guided missiles.

The report stressed, however, that the helicopters will be transferred unarmed, and the brackets and mounts used for carrying weapons will be removed.

No details of the potential deal were forthcoming from the Pakistani military’s Inter Services Public Relations media branch when contacted by Defense News.

However, an informed source here connected with the deal said, “This request is being discussed. It has been requested by Pakistan and is currently in the vetting stage.”

The source also clarified the variant of the helicopter and its potential use in Pakistan.

“The specific type is the search-and-rescue version, which will have provision for a medical officer and a stretcher.”

Pakistan’s military is experiencing a well-reported helicopter shortage, but though the Bo-105 is a fast and agile small helicopter, analysts question the value of the potential deal.

Former Australian defense attaché to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley, is unimpressed by the potential deal.

“The MBB Bo-105 is an elderly helicopter and has been out of production for years, and I doubt that a fleet could be properly maintained unless there was a vast amount of spares provided, as there was, for example, with the Australian Mirages,” he said.

In 1990, Pakistan acquired 50 retired Australian Dassault Mirage-IIIO/OD fighters, plus jigs, fabrication material and a considerable amount of spares for a fraction of their value.

Though ostensibly purchased for spares, most were overhauled and returned to service by the Pakistan Air Force.

Nevertheless, Cloughley is still skeptical because unlike the Mirage-III, the Bo-105 is not currently in service with Pakistan.

“There is also the matter of training aircrew and technicians, which is always a considerable task when acquiring any new type of equipment,” he said.
Pakistan, Germany in Surplus Helo Talks | Defense News | defensenews.com

Looks outdated ... If we need more utility choppers, then why are we retiring Aérospatiale Alouette III & Aérospatiale SA-315B Lama's ... I think they are better than it ..

Harbin Z-9 may be a much better option instead ..

Harbin+Z-9-+attack-helicopter.jpg


Harbin-Z-9C-PLAN-2.jpg


harbin-zhi-9.jpg
 
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german technology is far superior

Yes but given limited funds it would have been a good strategy to add more Chinese choppers in the same amount. It's just a LUH what the diffrence it would make in term of tech ??? It will be used as a battle field surveillance helo. And need not to say Pak will have to modify them to arm again and German's might not like that.
 
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Maybe for use by 6 ERC Sqn, NDMA, Rescue 1122, police or other such agencies for a SAR or overwatch role...I doubt these are for Army Aviation.
 
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Maybe for use by 6 ERC Sqn, NDMA, Rescue 1122, police or other such agencies for a SAR or overwatch role...I doubt these are for Army Aviation.

Are you sure anybody other than PA can afford such procurement ??? Do they have such budget Or GOP will be paying on behalf of them ???
 
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Are you sure anybody other than PA can afford such procurement ??? Do they have such budget Or GOP will be paying on behalf of them ???

6 ERC, NDMA and Police will be bought by the federal government...there was a rumor a couple of months back that police was interested in getting helos for observation and if you remember, there was a thread that Isl police had trained some people on heliborne ops. Can't say with assurity though since 40 is a big number for police or NDMA or anyone.

There is no indication that army has ordered them, and why would they? There isn't any role for them at the moment.

So my guess is considering the heli type, it is fr other than army, but 40 is a big number and only army can run that much (maybe some helis might be cannibalized).
 
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Are you sure anybody other than PA can afford such procurement ??? Do they have such budget Or GOP will be paying on behalf of them ???

Dude you have continuously been worrying about our financial resources.....:toast_sign: "funds are limited" "who else can afford it"..... if the deal is goin down then obviously they have the means to see it to fruition.
 
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There is no indication that army has ordered them, and why would they? There isn't any role for them at the moment.
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Umm battle field survilence with anti tank missiles sounds good to me.
Or PA has any other helo for that role ???

Dude you have continuously been worrying about our financial resources.....:toast_sign: "funds are limited" "who else can afford it"..... if the deal is goin down then obviously they have the means to see it to fruition.

Am I putting something thats not true ??? feel free to correct me.
That's called priority arrangements.

I am not saying PA is strapped of funds or bankrupt but resource is scares
 
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70's german choppers are superior to current chinese tech??? your chinese friends/brothers would be disappointed.

Its not about tech or friendly state......Pakistan needs to have access to multiple markets.....of all the people, Indians should be the last to raise this stupid question that "why not buy from China" does India gets her military hardware from one country?
 
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