Pakistan, Germany in Surplus Helo Talks

[Jango]

Umm battle field survilence with anti tank missiles sounds good to me.
Or PA has any other helo for that role ???

These are going to be supplied without any weapon attachment, and unless PA looks to doing something inhouse and straining relations with Germany, I dont see it happening.

Recce and scouting is done by JetRanger and Ecueril, anti tank is Cobra.

Unless PA is looking to offload Alouette or JetRanger, this heli seems surplus, maybe @fatman17 could have more info.

 

[Sergi]

These are going to be supplied without any weapon attachment, and unless PA looks to doing something inhouse and straining relations with Germany, I dont see it happening.
.

You guies modified "Harpoon" without USA's consent what the hell Germans gona do

Anyways thanks for reply

 

[Peregrine]

Am I putting something thats not true ??? feel free to correct me.
That's called priority arrangements.

I am not saying PA is strapped of funds or bankrupt but resource is scares

Pakistan army has limited resources and yet they are negotiating for these helos.....what exactly does that mean? Obviously they are not as cash strapped as you think they are.

 

[Sergi]

Pakistan army has limited resources and yet they are negotiating for these helos.....what exactly does that mean? Obviously they are not as cash strapped as you think they are.

Read the last line again.
Or even if you don't understand let me out it other way.
In combat helo discussion many senior Pak members said ( I can't pin point that thread now ) PA would add more Man pads than matching India with helo to helo. It was a economical and logical decision on behalf of PA.
if I am not wrong PA scrapped proposal to buy combat helos form China.
In this case if this procurement is for PA more suitable option would have been to buy UAVs from China. Or UCAV if they have. LUH serve a very little purpose over UAVs if its not armed

And I who the hell am I to question PA's spending I am just asking senior member here if he knows why ??? That's it

 

[uzair ramay]

why not make our own helicopters???? iran is making thier helicopters so y not we???

 

[fatman17]

Maybe for use by 6 ERC Sqn, NDMA, Rescue 1122, police or other such agencies for a SAR or overwatch role...I doubt these are for Army Aviation.

dont understand the logic behind this purported deal. what role will they used in. spares will be an issue. maybe 20 will be used and 20 used as spares.

two BO-105's are parked at chaklala airport (in black/yellow livery) used mainly as air ambulances. that could be one role esp in FATA.

or SAR role.

divided amongst the 3 brances of the military.

 

[Jango]

dont understand the logic behind this purported deal. what role will they used in. spares will be an issue. maybe 20 will be used and 20 used as spares.

two BO-105's are parked at chaklala airport (in black/yellow livery) used mainly as air ambulances. that could be one role esp in FATA.

or SAR role.

divided amongst the 3 brances of the military.

Those Yellow and black are of Princely jets, a rent company...search on google for them.

This would be deal certainly is a mystery...only time will tell I guess.

 

[Armstrong]

@fatman17 @nuclearpak - Even if the Anti-Tank weaponry comes off, would it be possible to mount an MG3 & unguided rockets on it & use it in a high-low combination with our COBRAS against the militants ?

 

[Jango]

@fatman17 @nuclearpak - Even if the Anti-Tank weaponry comes off, would it be possible to mount an MG3 & unguided rockets on it & use it in a high-low combination with our COBRAS against the militants ?

MG3 yes, don't know about rockets.

But then again, what is the use? MG3's are already mounted on Bell 412's and Mi-17's.

 

[Armstrong]

MG3 yes, don't know about rockets.

But then again, what is the use? MG3's are already mounted on Bell 412's and Mi-17's.

I was under the impression that we were a bit low on the available Helicopters & I had assumed that were we to go for these perhaps we can utilize them for reconnaissance & light air-support in areas or operations where we don't expect to run into a lot of trouble & that the COBRAS are given a much needed breather & reserved for higher end, higher priority targets.

The Bells & the Mi-17s are, as I imagine, used more for utility & transport purposes perhaps these German ones can be procured to additionally lower the strain put on them due to excessive demand & serve as a go-between to both help the COBRAS out by providing light air support & help the Bells out by servicing our forward posts with lighter loads.

So maybe we procure 40 & use 20 of them whilst cannibalize the other 20 !

What do you say @sancho @fatman17 ?

 

[Jango]

I was under the impression that we were a bit low on the available Helicopters & I had assumed that were we to go for these perhaps we can utilize them for reconnaissance & light air-support in areas or operations where we don't expect to run into a lot of trouble & that the COBRAS are given a much needed breather & reserved for higher end, higher priority targets.

The Bells & the Mi-17s are, as I imagine, used more for utility & transport purposes perhaps these German ones can be procured to additionally lower the strain put on them due to excessive demand & serve as a go-between to both help the COBRAS out by providing light air support & help the Bells out by servicing our forward posts with lighter loads.

So maybe we procure 40 & use 20 of them whilst cannibalize the other 20 !

I don't think introducing a new heli type is a viable option for that.

Bell-412 does the servicing of posts and utility role...

AFAIK, PA does not employ any helicopter as a dedicated light air support alternative to cobra, the door mounted guns are just to give some self protection in hot LZ's...light air strike ir heavy, cobra is used all the time right now.

I don't think that PA is changing it's battlefield method and trying to employ a new heli type just for light air support.

As I said before, it would be interesting to see that:

1- Who gets them...

2- What do they use them for.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well 40 of these helicopters would be ok for operation against , Taliban no doubt perhaps city patrols ok but not dependable against any other role

Limited vs Tank I assume but better to have them then nothing

Add a few baktar shiken and anza missile and we are ready


However , I prefer the Chinese Helicopters personally


This platform would have been ideal if we were serial producing these for Police and Coast Gauards
or Patrols over highways

Reasonable choice if it comes cheap

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The choppers are OK , provided we can get some spare parts or engine spares

And why is the Australian Atache case angry at the deal ? don't get that angle

 

[sancho]

70's german choppers are superior to current chinese tech??? your chinese friends/brothers would be disappointed.

Not to mention that the Z9 is a varient of a Eurocopter helicopter, which is German/French as well.

What do you say @sancho @fatman17 ?

Check the earlier discussion in this thread please,:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...my-aviation-corps-updated-73.html#post4216712

 

[fatman17]

@fatman17 @nuclearpak - Even if the Anti-Tank weaponry comes off, would it be possible to mount an MG3 & unguided rockets on it & use it in a high-low combination with our COBRAS against the militants ?

from the pics i have seen, they have less room than the 412's. could get cramped if we mount 2 MG's on each side door.

procurement should be based on realistic requirements not desirements...!